Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}

[Chaco]

Yup, it does.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Wow...Against Yoshi...ban RC and...I really don't have a clue...

 

[CaliburChamp]

Definitely ban RC or Halberd, Yoshi's can get an early kill with Up-airs. The best counter pick stage you can take a Yoshi to is Lylat or Yoshi's Island brawl. Yoshi does good on flat stages with the Grab release chain.

 

[eddy49]

This is a nice in depth overview. it shows the pros and cons of several stages for fighting against almost every character.

 

[Power of Slash]

Cool beans on defining the thread =o

Sadly, I have... no input vs. Yoshi. I don't really have one that I face on a regular basis. I also dunno how he works.

 

[MJG]

Brinstar and Distant Planet (if it is a possible counter stage) Should be banned

Playing a yoshi on Distant Planet is an automatica loss :'(

 

[Shadow Moth]

Distant Planet is banned from tourneys.

 

[WindMajor]

Yoshi's recovery sucks, so we need something that can punish it to counter. We don't want him to recover from under the stage, like in Delfino or Halberd, so we'd definately ban those. We also don't want stages with low ceilings, so Corneria and Rainbow Cruise is out.

Counterpicks i'd imagine would be flat stages, even if Yoshi can grab release chain. Yoshi's Island Brawl and Lylat sounds good. Final Destination would give us a lot of projectile spamming room. What about Frigate Orpheon?

 

[Sosuke]

Finally updated. >_<
Gahhh, I suck at life . my computer crashed on me me during 2 seperate occasion trying to do all this. ._.
Ehh, no johns.


Thank you yoshi mains!
And of course thank you to all the TL mains, too. ^_^



Okay, so Yoshi's done.
Zeldas next!
THEN ZSS!
THEN WE'RE DONE AND WE START ALL OVER. :DDD

 

[-Mars-]

If I was playing Toon Link I would go to BF or Brinstar. There both smaller stages which helps Zelda at least have a better shot at getting inside of Toon Links camp game. Zelda ***** platforms, seriously platform stages make a lot of Zeldas moves easier to land including her power aerials. Brinstar is bad for Zelda's recovery, but she has a couple pillars or whatever those things are to prolong her smash attacks.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Id ban battlefield against zelda. Her usmash is deadly and reaches from below platforms and platforms in general give her more options to land her KO moves. I wouldnt trust going to brinstar she KOs off the top way too easily and the ceiling there is very low :/ the stage gimps her recovery very badly tho. I'd personally cp lylat cruise. Err I dont have anything else to say -_-.

 

[Sosuke]

Bump because you guys really need to start posting if this is going to go anywhere. =/

 

[Power of Slash]

I have no idea what Zelda likes as a counterpick, but Zelda is especially dangerous on Battlefield, so I'd probably ban that.

Castle Siege also comes to mind here. She beats us at 2/3 of the stage parts, I think. I know for a fact she'd dominate us on that small 1st stage piece.

 

[Bshaw718]

i would cp Halberd and delfino. On halberd there's not much room for zelda to get all din's fire happy, and while in the first phase of the stage her up b recovery doesn't work to well there. If even if zelda manages to teleport directly to the stage she still suffers from her landing lag making her vulnerable to maybe an up smash to oblivion

pretty much the same thing with delfino w/ the plus of the water parts of the stage, TL can get of a few spikes to build up damage if not take a stock

now as for bans i would have to go with banning BF and Norfair....too much platform abuse for TL and on Norfair gives Zelda camping distance. neither of these stages give many opportunities for TL to camp back

 

[Sosuke]

Bump for more input before I can update. >_>

 

[copacetic]

Supposedly delfino is good and BF is bad, though I beat riot on bf and lose on delfino. Din's fire isn't really a big worry for TL, so choosing an open stage like FD or smashville will ensure a pretty fair match. Lylat is a good CP. The platforms help her usmash, but the tilt will mess her up and the rest of the stage is pretty much in our favor.

RC is probably good too

 

[Lobos]

I would to give input on this but I just don't see zelda as a threat on certain stages.

 

[Xx HanZo xX]

Wut about Toon Link? lol wuts his cps /bans?

 

[copacetic]

^That's what this entire thread is about, page 1 has the summaries.

If you're asking about zelda specifically, it seems to be that we ban BF and maybe Brinstar, and CP Lylat and Delfino, though there hasn't been too much input on this

 

[Sosuke]

Delfino isn't good since she can teleport through the stage


And he was making a joke by asking why Toon Link doesn't have a CP/ban of his own.

 

[copacetic]

Flew right over my head, just saw the low post count and assumed from there. Oh well

I personally hate Delfino, I've just been told it's good. And honestly I don't mind BF against zelda. The platforms do well to help our bomb game and avoid her din's fire, and we can still camp the ground level. TL has a good advantage when he's below her and the platforms help keep her on top. They still help her aerial game a ton, but I don't think it gives her much advantage overall.

Then again I like taking snakes to Lylat, so maybe I just like overcoming defecits?

 

[-Mars-]

i would cp Halberd and delfino. On halberd there's not much room for zelda to get all din's fire happy, and while in the first phase of the stage her up b recovery doesn't work to well there.

Halberd is like one of the larger legal stages in the game lol. Believe me......>Dins fire is not used much by Zelda players(competent ones). Big stages are not good for us especially against Toon Link.

You shouldn't even think about Halberd as a counterpick though......usmash kills Tink way earlier there<_<.

 

[Sosuke]

Well I took forever. Zelda's done.
Thanks Zelda mains etc, etc. <3

ZSS and we're done.
Then onto important re-discussions due to the new stage rule set/ advances in character's metagames.

 

[noradseven]

Hmmm good stages for you would probably be FD and smashville you want them as flat as you can get TL, gets owned p. bad by ZSS if we get below him, aka lots of platforms, I would strongly suggest banning BF, because its a neutral and you don't want to get a good neutral for us and get hit by our CP as well.

We also kinda own you guys on brinstar, and RC, we do really good on norfair as well, but TL does p. good on that stage too so its not the best pick for us. ZSS will greatly favor small platformy stages against you.

Your strongest CPs will be japes and FD, for sure, japes is a solid stage because ZSS isn' fond of it, because we can't use our great recovery and it has way too high of a cieling for us, plus projectile characters love it. FD because its flat no platforms high cieling its just not good all around.

As a ZSS I would ban FD, and hope you arn't very experienced in jungle if it comes down to that.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Stages for ZSS aren't very difficult. I should make a flow chart for this. :D

Are you a character with a strong projectile game? If so, FD/Smashville is a good CP for ZSS.

If you aren't a character with strong projectiles, Japes and your character's best stage are the best options.

ZSS doesn't have too many problem stages. We don't like flat stages against campers and we hate Japes. That's about it.

As far as neutrals go, FD and Smashville are the worst. Battlefield is the best. Yoshi's, it depends on the character we're vsing, but most ZSS players don't like it (I love it though). With that said she isn't terrible on any neutrals.

 

[Lobos]

I also agree with BF being ZSS best neutral while fd and smashville are better for us. TL and ZSS have similar taste in CP stages (tether recovery) but TL recovery doesn't really on the tether as much as ZSS does (easy gimp??) I haven't played an ZSS inawhile so I really don't know where to CP except maybe rainbow cruise lol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I also agree with BF being ZSS best neutral while fd and smashville are better for us. TL and ZSS have similar taste in CP stages (tether recovery) but TL recovery doesn't really on the tether as much as ZSS does (easy gimp??) I haven't played an ZSS inawhile so I really don't know where to CP except maybe rainbow cruise lol

ZSS is not an easy gimp and doesn't really rely on her tether recovery that much.

 

[Lobos]

ZSS is not an easy gimp and doesn't really rely on her tether recovery that much.

dsmash on edge and edge hog = GG

 

[TLMSheikant]

That is not gg lobos...Zss can make it back with her jump upB plus down b. Have you played any good zero suits? Im guessing not...shes actually a little hard to edgeguard properly. Plus her down b also has invincibility frames making it harder to gimp her.

 

[Sosuke]

You can basically hit gimp her at any time as long as it's not when she's using Down B.
But that's not really easy to do because good ZSS users time it so that you attack them during that move.


I've played a really good ZSS before, and the matches were really close (considering we both didn't know the match up). But I couldn't gimp her recovery the first 3 times I tried. You have to outwit them.

 

[Lobos]

Like I said earlier I haven't played any ZSS inawhile, although I have played the best ones on the EC but its been so long >_>....lol infact I think I've played the best (or top players) of every character

 

[BKrkr]

Seeing as ZSS is missing:

This is a tricky one. At first I thought Pirate Ship to neutralize the whip recovery, but she has several meteors (dair, down b kick, plus the pulldown of the up b sweetspot.) Final Destination frees us up for some camping and spam, so that's definitely a CP. Zamus loves getting under you (har har) so she can abuse her vertical whip attacks, so Battlefield is a no no. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but many platforms in Rainbow Cruise can't be tethered to, so that is also a good CP.

CP - Final Destination, Rainbow Cruise
Ban - Pirate Ship, Battlefield

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Lylat Cruise is the best ZSS counter stage. Dsmash at the edge and that's a stock. GGs.

 

[Lobos]

We should finish this sasuke chan ^.^

 

[Mota]

ZSS aerial game is much stronger then her ground so pretty much what everyone else has said,

Ban stages with platforms, BF
and go for flats, FD, Smashville, Jungle

 

[MJG]

ZSS aerial game is much stronger then her ground so pretty much what everyone else has said,

Ban stages with platforms, BF
and go for flats, FD, Smashville, Jungle

Good point on eliminating BF.

Isnt Lylat Cruise one of ZSS' best stages though? How does toonlink hold up against ZSS on lylat?

Yoshi's Island would favor ZSS more than toonlink IMO

 

[WindMajor]

Does ZSS perform well in Rainbow Cruise? TL performs miracles there, and I don't see ZSS doing too well with it.

 

[TLMSheikant]

ZSS is actually REALLY good in RC. Trust me...

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Are we ever gonna finish this?

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ Someday I guess lol.