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You said he had a chaingrab, didn't you? I don't know much about Bowser.
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Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}
- Thread starter Sosuke
- Start date
A~Kid/ToonethLinkage
Wants His Own Custom Title
I already saw the vid. I'm saying that Bowser is easy for Toon Link.
Alfa
Smash Apprentice
Battlefield is a small stage, meaning less camping, the platforms can be utilized by Bowser easily, through the use of Utilt/Usmash/Full hop Nair, and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk55lEfeOrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2vltpvHKgc
Toon Link should be banning BF against Bowsers, and probably counterpicking Japes. Japes prevents Bowsercides, and any attempts at one can result in Bowser being gimped if Tink throws out a quick Bair as he and Bowser are recovering. The size of the stage promotes camping, and due to the way the platforms are setup, eventually the only way through Tink's camping is to airdodge, meaning Bowser can be punished and knocked away, restarting the whole process again. The platform setup means that Bowser my have to use his aerials more than usual in order to approach Tink, and Bowser has a luckluster set of aerials, whilst Tink has a good set of disjointed aerials. And lastly, Japes prevents Bowser from killing vertically, which can present a problem, as Ftilt will probably be stale, Jab is weak, Fsmash is slow, Fair will probably be stale, and Bair is easily punishable if Bowser misses, so Bowser's only good option for killing horizontally is Dtilt, which due to having a hitbox close to the ground, won't hit an aerial Tink. Overall, Japes is a bad stage for Bowser, with the only advantages being that the high ceiling will make it harder for Bowser to die, and that the water can help Bowser survive spikes easier.
B!squick
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7nJGDI89M
^
I'm only bothering to post this link because I've already posted it earlier in this thread.
Any constructive inquiries? I'll start off with a couple things I noticed.
Bowser has a chain grab on most of the cast because Bowser gets a full 10 frames of freedom after a grab release on most of the cast before the opponent has a opportunity to react, except for Lucas, Ness, and Donkey Kong which is instead 20, 20, and 0 frames respectively. Some characters break out too far for a regrab and others can still avoid the chain by Jump breaking during one of Bowser's pummels.
Still, Jab, FTilt, DTilt are pretty reliable out of release which is all we need really.
Battlefield is perfect for Bowser. Small with platforms. Ban it. Though Yoshi's may prove more of a problem for Tink. Toss up between those two as far as neutrals go. What some TL stages that aren't neutral?
Also, I personally like Delfino.
A~Kid/ToonethLinkage
Wants His Own Custom Title
Bowser is a fat turtle and the Toon Link in the video sucked. Add that.
Radori Nighthawk
Smash Apprentice
I liek juice. Hey A-kid.
MrEh
Smash Hero
I like Yoshi's Island as a counterpick against TLink.
But that's really just because I like Yoshi's Island in general.
But that's really just because I like Yoshi's Island in general.
B!squick
Smash Master
If memory serves, that was a top player in the UK and the win that got people to really notice the awesomeness of Ixis.
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
wow. Ixis is actually really good, and the TL definitely knew what he was doing, it's just that the bowser put way too much pressure on him.
Though take note - his uair trades hits with out dair, so be careful of low ceilings and ibomb or something.
and bombs will hit him through most platforms on stages, so if you get taken to bf you can apply a lot of shield pressure with the bombs
Though take note - his uair trades hits with out dair, so be careful of low ceilings and ibomb or something.
and bombs will hit him through most platforms on stages, so if you get taken to bf you can apply a lot of shield pressure with the bombs
B!squick
Smash Master
Always watch out for Klaw. Not because of Bowsercide, but because of Grab armor and it's ability to cancel when hitting the ground.
.REMIX.
Smash Apprentice
Hmmm. I think you should have based this off of tournament stages. Stages like corneria and japes aren't too commonly legal. or at all. And i think this should be updated. some of this isn't very helpful. The following bans below should be put into thought (Reminder: These are all just my opinion):
GnW - Bans: BF, RC. CP: FD, Delfino
MK - Bans: RC, Frigate Orpheon. CP: FD, Halberd, Delfino
Snake - Bans: Halberd, FD, Castle Siege CP: Delfino, BF (a litlle bit of a positive/negative cp. all depends how you play the MU)
Diddy - Bans: FD, SV. CP: Halberd, RC, LC
Falco - Bans: FD (I faced Orions falco here... its simply awful being camped), SV. CP: Halberd, Delfino, RC, LC
King DeDeDe - Bans: Castle Siege, FD, SV, Halberd. CP: BF, LC, YI
I'll have more some other time but I'm too lazy too type more(REMEMBER THIS IS ALL JUST BASED IMO AND TOURNAMENT AND MM EXPERIENCES)
GnW - Bans: BF, RC. CP: FD, Delfino
MK - Bans: RC, Frigate Orpheon. CP: FD, Halberd, Delfino
Snake - Bans: Halberd, FD, Castle Siege CP: Delfino, BF (a litlle bit of a positive/negative cp. all depends how you play the MU)
Diddy - Bans: FD, SV. CP: Halberd, RC, LC
Falco - Bans: FD (I faced Orions falco here... its simply awful being camped), SV. CP: Halberd, Delfino, RC, LC
King DeDeDe - Bans: Castle Siege, FD, SV, Halberd. CP: BF, LC, YI
I'll have more some other time but I'm too lazy too type more(REMEMBER THIS IS ALL JUST BASED IMO AND TOURNAMENT AND MM EXPERIENCES)
And ps2 isn't legal in any regions bro >.> And wario could just cp BF to take advantage of juggling toonlink with his aerials such as u-air or rc simply because wario's play style suites him MUCH more there than toonlink because of the moving platforms and occasional low roofs.
MJG
Smash Hero
PS2 is legal in some regions actually.
As old as this thread is, I would like to see it come to life again.
As old as this thread is, I would like to see it come to life again.
MJG
Smash Hero
Im down if mostly everyone is
Hopefully we can move at the speed that the olimar boards move at with their discussions
Hopefully we can move at the speed that the olimar boards move at with their discussions
.REMIX.
Smash Apprentice
Good. This thread seriously needs to be discussed again :D
MJG
Smash Hero
No one seems to be interested but if a stage comes up, I will be more than willing to contribute :D
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
I'm half interested.
My CP is always FD or SV and I never ban anything, but maybe this could help?
My CP is always FD or SV and I never ban anything, but maybe this could help?
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
- Switch FC
- 8132-9932-4710
Alright guys, gonna start this up again.
I'm going to go about the summary a little differently this time. Instead of just reading posts and deciding for myself which stage sounds better and being done with it, I'll get some confirmation on what I pulled out of the thread.
So basically:
1) We discuss the stages.
2) I post what I think the counter picks/bans should be (based off what I've read).
3) We try to get a general agreement on what they should be.
4) Changes are made if needed.
5) I write the summary and put it in the OP.
Sound good?
I'm going to go about the summary a little differently this time. Instead of just reading posts and deciding for myself which stage sounds better and being done with it, I'll get some confirmation on what I pulled out of the thread.
So basically:
1) We discuss the stages.
2) I post what I think the counter picks/bans should be (based off what I've read).
3) We try to get a general agreement on what they should be.
4) Changes are made if needed.
5) I write the summary and put it in the OP.
Sound good?
MJG
Smash Hero
Yes. We need to get this going again. Hopefully we get some good input as well.
QUIVO
Smash Master
For Donkey Kong, apparently Norfair is good for him now. He can get super armored up b's or something like that.
Super Smash Bros Brawl Master
Smash Cadet
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
what the? this isnt the place for that GET OUT
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Infract him again!
And he was, but we failed at showing the slightest signs of initiative.
And he was, but we failed at showing the slightest signs of initiative.
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
Falco
Counter- Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise
Ban- Battlefield, Pictochat, Jungle Japes
Synopsis~ First off, before the first match even starts, STAGE STRIKE BATTLEFIELD. He has an infinite chain grab on us on the platforms. If you get stuck with this stage, just stay off the platforms the whole match.
lmaaaaaaaaaaaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Counter- Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise
Ban- Battlefield, Pictochat, Jungle Japes
Synopsis~ First off, before the first match even starts, STAGE STRIKE BATTLEFIELD. He has an infinite chain grab on us on the platforms. If you get stuck with this stage, just stay off the platforms the whole match.
lmaaaaaaaaaaaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
D Who?
Smash Journeyman
Quote:
Falco
Counter- Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise
Ban- Battlefield, Pictochat, Jungle Japes
Synopsis~ First off, before the first match even starts, STAGE STRIKE BATTLEFIELD. He has an infinite chain grab on us on the platforms. If you get stuck with this stage, just stay off the platforms the whole match. Before the second match, BAN PICTOCHAT. If you get grabbed, you're going to get infinited. He can chain grab you to the edge and laser lock you easily. You can also ban Jungle Japes. Falco can chain grab you into a spike INTO THE WATER. This more or less means death. They can also spam phantasm much more effectively then on other stages with all the glitchy edges to grab. You could also get spiked by his phantasm if your unlucky. Also ban Final Destination. Lots of room for Falco to spam lasers and Chain Grab. His phantasm does well here due. Norfair would be a good counter pick due to very little room for Falco to chain grab. You also have a very good chance of surviving spikes if you stay on the upper platforms when your at high percents. Projectiles here also give us an advantage as it is more of a vertical stage then a horizontal one. Falco can only shoot lasers straight, while Toon Link can throw angled boomerangs and bombs. Rainbow cruise is also good as Falco doesn't have many chain grabbing and camping options. It helps that both of you will be in the air a lot because Falco's recovery isn't very helpful there and Toon Link's aerials game is superior to Falcos. Lylat Cruise can also mess up Falco. The tilting stage and platforms will help you a lot against a spammy Falco. Also, Falco can't recover very well on this stage.
How is that MU 50/50? It seems like if TL gets picked to 1 of 3 levels he gets ****ed.. How do you ban 3 levels? You can strike FD and BF and then ban Picto but he can pick you back to BF,FD, or Japes.
I fail to see how this could possibly be 50/50.
Falco
Counter- Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise
Ban- Battlefield, Pictochat, Jungle Japes
Synopsis~ First off, before the first match even starts, STAGE STRIKE BATTLEFIELD. He has an infinite chain grab on us on the platforms. If you get stuck with this stage, just stay off the platforms the whole match. Before the second match, BAN PICTOCHAT. If you get grabbed, you're going to get infinited. He can chain grab you to the edge and laser lock you easily. You can also ban Jungle Japes. Falco can chain grab you into a spike INTO THE WATER. This more or less means death. They can also spam phantasm much more effectively then on other stages with all the glitchy edges to grab. You could also get spiked by his phantasm if your unlucky. Also ban Final Destination. Lots of room for Falco to spam lasers and Chain Grab. His phantasm does well here due. Norfair would be a good counter pick due to very little room for Falco to chain grab. You also have a very good chance of surviving spikes if you stay on the upper platforms when your at high percents. Projectiles here also give us an advantage as it is more of a vertical stage then a horizontal one. Falco can only shoot lasers straight, while Toon Link can throw angled boomerangs and bombs. Rainbow cruise is also good as Falco doesn't have many chain grabbing and camping options. It helps that both of you will be in the air a lot because Falco's recovery isn't very helpful there and Toon Link's aerials game is superior to Falcos. Lylat Cruise can also mess up Falco. The tilting stage and platforms will help you a lot against a spammy Falco. Also, Falco can't recover very well on this stage.
How is that MU 50/50? It seems like if TL gets picked to 1 of 3 levels he gets ****ed.. How do you ban 3 levels? You can strike FD and BF and then ban Picto but he can pick you back to BF,FD, or Japes.
I fail to see how this could possibly be 50/50.
SN Viper
Formerly 9th in FL PR
well first of picto should be an illegal stage and is not always legal japes is not in most places a legal stage so then you can ban fd.
BF is a good stage for TL to try and strike a falco to.
strike FD then SV
the Falco Strikes YI or LC
you have BF left
although recently the falco boards have stated that YI is a good stage for that mu just avoid the easy gimp at the ledge from tinks dsmash. i still feel YI is a good stage for falco.
anyways the falco summay is in dire need of an update.
BF is a good stage for TL to try and strike a falco to.
strike FD then SV
the Falco Strikes YI or LC
you have BF left
although recently the falco boards have stated that YI is a good stage for that mu just avoid the easy gimp at the ledge from tinks dsmash. i still feel YI is a good stage for falco.
anyways the falco summay is in dire need of an update.
G-Dub
Smash Journeyman
lol. Can someone tell me when Corneria is ever legal???