Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}

[copacetic]

@melito - did you play him at the saturday tournament or sunday? I didn't see any TL's besides mine on sunday.

But yeah, ban anything with a low ceiling, or u-tilt will own you. It outranges our d-tilt (not that anyone really uses it). He's better at punishing than we are, so stages like Frigate Orpheon will work more in his favor. Aside from that most stages are about even. We stop his approaches better on Norfair but it's easier for him to tech chase there, so beware. For some reason I always choose Japes though

 

[melito]

the one on saturday i couldnt go 2 the one on sunday

 

[Tiersr4Queers]

man this thread is neverending!

 

[chaos11011]

i have a question on the printable version.

When Printing it How much pages of paper will it use (for just the Symptosis not comments)

 

[UncleSam]

i have a question on the printable version.

When Printing it How much pages of paper will it use (for just the Symptosis not comments)

I got 16 pages, and we still aren't done with every character...

 

[Sosuke]

I'll take care of it next week so It'll take up less paper.

 

[WindMajor]

Against a Snake i'd ban Smashville first, since smashville + snake = domination.

CP, I would go for Rainbow Cruise first since his mines would only work on the boat. I'd also choose Delfino square since he's easy to spike on the water, and because the platforms change a lot.

 

[KunaiX]

i have a question on the printable version.

When Printing it How much pages of paper will it use (for just the Symptosis not comments)

If you want save paper take this version of TOon Link Stages

http://rapidshare.de/files/46716432/Toon_Link_Stages.doc.html

8 Sites

 

[Sosuke]

Update coming soon, guys. <3

 

[Shiroi]

Was there a counterpick for zelda?
I want one cuz me and my friend have a TL (me) vs Zelda (him).
I wanna see if there can be possible results. lol.
It's for fun. xD

 

[copacetic]

Was there a counterpick for zelda?
I want one cuz me and my friend have a TL (me) vs Zelda (him).
I wanna see if there can be possible results. lol.
It's for fun. xD

Supposedly delfino but I beat Riot on FD and BF and ended up losing there. Any place where you can easily get to her is good. Avoiding obstacles and her din's fire gets difficult

 

[TheJerm]

Guys, dont take snake to norfair. One downthrow, and we are screwed. Take him to rainbow cruise, or FD. Smashville is decent too. Ban Lylat.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

I agree with Jerm on Rainbow Cruise. He can't use any of his specials (save recovery) there effectively after the first transition.His mines are also screwed, and he can't really techgrab until it gets to the part after the pendulum-like platform.

 

[Sosuke]

Sorry it took forever guys. =(

But Snakes finally done. Thank you for your input, Snake mains.




Sonic is next.
^_^

 

[Kinzer]

I really hate being the first to post, but I do suppose it's a nice thing.

Going by the new stage selection, I see that Pirate Ship is still a legal stage. Of course with the natural hazards and transformations of the stage, I could see Toon Link getting an even more solid advantage over Sonic. I assume you guys are trained to work with projectiles on non-flat stages and Sonic has no where to run except to another side. I would suggest either stay in the middle or if you somehow get Sonic to go into the water go for it.

Assuming that's not available to you (maybe the other player banned it or you live in a ban-happy area), I would like to know how Norfair works. Toon Link has a d*** fine aerial game AFAIK, and since most of this stage is (lol camping sucks but it counts), what could go wrong? Sonic's aerial game is horrible compared to his ground game, so that's a detriment.

...If that's not available either, then what about Final Destination or Battlefield? You don't want to go to Yoshi's Isle since Shy Guys would get in the way, and Sonic gets iSDR here.

If possible, how willing are you going to go to Weegee's? Not the best idea but I'm just throwing it out there.

Maybe not so much Lylat, since it kind of tilts and screws around with peoples' range game/recovery whereas Sonic can easily take the shifting...

You might also want to think about Picto since Sonic can also gain iSDR there, but it might not be so problematic as YI:B.

I don't really like/think too much about any of the MAY-LAY! stages, so you're on your own there.

Toon Link has that certain advantage to him that allows a wide variety of stages to choose from, nothing immediate comes to my mind in terms of what stages Toon Link wants to stay away from unless you count YI. Sonic on the other hand has that same freedom, but to a lesser degree since his opponent can do just as fine on a stage, if not better. As if a solid 4:6 disadvantage wasn't enough to deal with, just the playstyle of getting around those projectiles... but I digress.

Please take my advice with a grain of salt, I happen to think it might be personal preference more than something like "Olimar's Mansion."

 

[Jim Morrison]

Take Sonic to Delfino, it's always been a 'meh'-stage for most Sonics. Or levels with low ceilings, seeing as Sonic kills off the side, while TL kills off top. Kinzer has more write-up.

 

[ithrowthings]

My Sonic differs a bit from your typical tournament Sonic but from my experience I'd say a good TL should CP Battlefield, Brinstar, and Norfair. With all your projecticles (that's right I said it) you can really mess with Sonic's approach. Sonic needs a nice flat space to run around on and these stages don't have much to offer in that regard.

As far as what you should ban, it varies greatly from player to player. Personally I hate when people ban smashville against me, most likely because it's the stage I'm most familiar with. Most Sonics however would probably love fighting on FD. FD is a typical ban against sonic users however with TL's projecticles, you can really make it difficult to approach even on FD so if you are confident in your projectile game you may not want to ban FD. The sonic user may always go ballsy if he thinks he's gonna lose and take you to rainbow cruise but I'm pretty sure this would put both players at an equal disadvantage.

 

[TheFast]

Lol Battlefeild is a campy pikachus best stage. He can use the platforms for running away with QaC or go under them leaving him with more options to run away and camp. The platforms also make his projectile very hard to predict compaired to other stages. Counterpicking Yoshi is much better. TL can use the platform when tilted on the side to read techs into up-smashs paired with pika light frame. The edges on Yoshis make it hard for Pika to ledge camp TL because of the way they are curved alow you projectiles to do more than they normally can to pressure him off the ledge. Because of the side if he ever QAs towards them it will cancle his QA. So off the stage of Yoshi's he is easier to predict. Knowing QA can only go 6 ways, let say you force him below and near the side. He is forced to go Up, Up and Right (or left, depending on what side) or Right than Up-left if he isnt the far down. If he is farther down than his limits are forced to two main options. This can not only lead into TL's hard to land spike but if he is at a high percent you can get a fresh Fair if you read him right. Not to mention this is already a naturelly good TL stage.

One more note; A skull bash that a pika uses that doesnt sweet spot the ledge might lead into a Dair, because pika would hit the wall but stay there for the duration of his momentum.

 

[Shadow Moth]

CP Picto. Those drawings can really screw with them.

 

[Asdioh]

Well since you INSIST that I post in this thread, I'll help how I can.

Since it's a mother ****ing Snake, you don't want to take him to a mother ****ing plane.

I like to take them to Japes as Kirby, but TL likes to star KO more than Kirby does so I dunno. Maybe take him to Delfino.



I agree with ITT on Sonic. Delfino is also good.

Against Pikachu, I dunno. Take him to Delfino >_>

 

[Sosuke]

Falco lameness updated. =/

No more TLs have anything to say about the Sonic stage stuff??
haha, SSS.

But srsly, I'm going to start the write up tonight.
Last chance. >__>

 

[pure_awesome]

You accidentally put Stage Strike Battlefield, then Ban Battlefield.

Don't you mean Stage Strike Battlefield, Ban PictoChat?

 

[Sosuke]

Idk what you're talking about. >__>;

No, jk. Thanksies.

 

[Sosuke]

Double post to bumppppp.


Thanks Fast.


Thanks you Sonic mains for the help. ^_^
Sorry for not having much of a discussion.
Kinzer: Luigis Mansion = get ***** TL. you cant kill lolol


So Sonics done, TOON LINK Warios next.

Ahh I actually know a little about this one. haha

 

[Shadow Moth]

If you know something then post it. >_>

Well anyways for Wario you want to make sure he cant run you over with his bike too much so FD is a no no (unless I'm wrong about the bike being a valid threat). Maybe ban it. There may be more dangerous stages.

In this case I would reccomend Yoshi's or SV. I'm fairly sure that Warios like to kill up so high celings are good.

 

[MrEh]

No competent Wario is going to try and hit you with his bike.

Throwing his bike is another story though...

 

[Shadow Moth]

In that case a bigger stage like SV would probably be better so TL can space better. But what about killing upwards? Was I right about that?

 

[Silver Swordsman]

If Wario tries using his bike on you, just grab him out of it...

Wario's best stages have platforms and small KO boundaries. FD would be good cuz then you could camp more, and hopefully survive longer too. Yoshi's would also be good because you can camp under the platform to cut off his approach options from above, plus if he recovers low he'd have to use his bike facing away from the stage (this can help with gimping... not likely though)

BAN BRINSTAR
If you value your life you will ban this stage immediately (unless you use DK)

 

[Shadow Moth]

This thread is dead. Someone other than me make a thread in the Wario boards advertising this one.

 

[Lobos]

Well I tried >.>......just ban battlefield and cp something gay like norfair and throw stuff at them.

ugh gonna **** me some warios now

 

[Sosuke]

@MrEh
lolz. I remember back when people thought THROWING the bike was stupid.

Hitting TL with the bike isn't even that bad for Wario because it negates his SHDA.


Also, somewhat of a bump.
C'mon pplzzzz. =/

 

[GTR!]

Yeah, pretty much what has been said above. In GA there arent that many Wario's, but the ones ive play it seems that i can outcamp and set up really well on bigger, flatter stages like FD and Smashville. I mean by no means am i an expert, just some of my experiences.

But hey, thats just my 2 cents.

 

[PhantomX]

I really don't know where is a good stage for you to take Wario. He does fine anywhere you can do fine. It seems like super big/wide stages would be good to facilitate camping, but they also allow Wario to live forever.

As long as you make sure not to get taken to Japes, you should be fine.

 

[Shadow Moth]

what's so bad about Japes?

 

[copacetic]

I don't know exactly what's bad, but i guess wario's got pretty good horizontal recovery and kill moves, with fsmash and fart, and TL is more vertical based. And if they bite us into the water right we'll get carried away and they'll survive, but i doubt any player would fall for that twice

 

[WindMajor]

It's kind of true. Wario would do good in pretty much any stage.

You would want to avoid a short ceiling. His clap can kill pretty well the ceiling is short, and his mega fart would do the same I guess.

Platforms could be a good and bad thing. I haven't played enough Warios to tell if platforms are good for him. You could avoid his bike by jumping to another platform, and maybe planting a C4. Can a C4 stop or slow down his bike?

Jungle Japes doesn't seem too bad for me either. His bike won't be able to kill you. I would stay away from the outer platforms. They are really small, and I wouldn't want to be that close to a Wario. Bombs control that map pretty well across platforms. The only problem I could see with Jungle Japes is if he throws the bike on you over the ledge. That will plunge you straight to the water.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

TWiNKatGC, why are you so cautious of his bike? You don't need some elaborate projectile plan to handle it - just grab him out of it (with TL's chain it's quite easy too). Any competent Wario player will tell you the same thing.

I love platforms with TL, but I'd NEVER go to a stage like Battlefield vs Wario if I had a choice. If he catches on you on a platform, he WILL punish you. He has so many choices in that kind of situation it's ridiculous. He can also use them for positioning so that you can't camp him nearly as well. The only good thing TL gets out of platforms in this match-up is the fact that Wario can't hit him with dairs from high above if he's camping under a platform.

 

[Sosuke]

LMAO @ Moth knowing exactly which stages to counter pick
.... but not exactly for the right reasons lolz. =P


Thanks for the info guyssssss!
Sorry for slacking, I always end up doing that. ._.;



Wolf is next.
BAN SMASHVILLE AEGNOERGN

 

[chaos11011]

Its ok Sasuke

IMO i like to CP Lylat cause it screws wolfs recovery and his blaster cant do much there (cause he cant SHDA like us ) but thats just me.

 

[VietGeek]

Wolf does well on about every neutral. Smashville helps him out with recovery due to its sloping and moving platform, he's somewhat similar to Marth and can abuse platforms on Battlefield, as well as control a lot of space on Yoshi's Island Brawl due to its convoluted set-up and small space in general.

So it may depend on player preference, but usually I would ban:

Battlefield or Yoshi's Island Brawl
CP: Lylat Cruise