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Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}

Byuusan

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 13, 2008
Messages
347
Location
New Westminster B.C.
Ok so from Pit's perspective for counterpicking stages, Norfair is a good stage for a Toon link to counterpick against a pit because T. Link can camp better then pit can on it (i don't have much T. Link experaince but that what i found out) As for banning stages, Helberd probably a good choice, Halberd is a good stage for pit overall.

sry i can't provide more then that.
 

copacetic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
408
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Worcester, MA
My friend loves Smashville for his Pit, which I'm assuming works since he's won all the WPI tournaments. It gives him space to camp and he can go around the stage quickly, and the moving platform gives him another recovery option. Norfair and Pirate Ship mess up his gimping potential, and he takes some time to get out of the water since his jumps aren't that fast.
 

NinjaMeepit

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
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Yoshi's Island is one of those stages most Pits hate, I as a Pit, dislike Delfino Plaza too. I like to pick Halberd too, I don't know about other Pits. Toon Link can outcamp Pit, so TL might want to pick somewhere with space... FD? I don't fight many TLs, thats pretty much all I know about TL.
 

rebd121

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262
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Wichita, KS
CP Norfair against Pit? Hmm... Never knew that. Thanks.

Umm... I'd ban Smashville against him. Maybe it's just me, but I have trouble fighting Pit here.
 

Admiral Pit

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From our CP/Ban list it says that we can use Frigate and Lylat against you, while you can use Pirate Ship and Corneria against us.

Pit's Advantages

Frigate: Your recovery has to be a bit more precise, judging from what some of ur other matchups say. Frigate's changing stage is mainly the problem, and somewhere around, you wont be able to grab on the ledge. This also affects Pit, considering how he needs it to camp, but TL outcamps Pit anyways, not that special.

Lylat: Pit can take advantage of the tilting stage, still capable of controlling his arrows as the stage tilts, while TL's projectiles might get blocked by it. This allows Pit to camp slightly better, but even so, Pit still has problems with Z-air, and TL still outcamps Pit in general, but not as much with the tilting stage in the way.
We all know that the tilting stage Also affects recoveries. This affects TL more than Pit, but Pit still has to get the ledge quickly before getting gimped. Pit can use Up-B near a ledge to sweetspot and grab on to it quicker. This is also important to Pit and his ledgecamping. The tilting stage will degrade Pit's ledgecamping, but the stage is thin and allows other possibilities.
The stage is thin enough at the end for Pit to poke opponents above him with U-air, and can use Up-B to push them.

TL's Advantages

Pirate Ship: I dont play this stage enoguh to know everything. However, I know that this stage screws up Pit's arrows a lot, and TL's D-air is more threatening here due to spiking. Do be careful of Pit's D-tilt spike when you're at the ledge of the ship.

Corneria: The KO boundaries are so close to allow TL to KO Pit quickly, especially with Usmash. Pit's KOing problems will hurt him. What Im also looking at is the boundaries for KOing at the sides are close as well.
Knowing that somewhere around TL's Dsmash is a broken knockback (the first hit has great knockback, but the 2nd one stops it a bit for the most part). It could possbily KO quickly too when near the ledge.
However, do be careful at the back of the ship, for Pit is capable of a temporary CG that can place u from 0-40% in a few seconds, but even with that on Pit's side, the stage is still against him generally.


Other stages

Green greens: Similar to Lucas, TL does have some KO power in him, and where the KO boundaries are close, opponents can be KO's quickly, both horizontally and Vertically. TL's Usmash and Dsmash will benefit him greatly here. Pit hates the stage for the most part, and his ledgecamping can get himself killed if he tries it. The blocks will further degrade Pit's camping ability.
But then, this degrades your own camping ability, Pit more than you, but i wouldnt call this a solid CP.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl): I thought about this stage considering how The Shy guys ruin both chars' projectiles, more so to Pit unfortunately. However, your Z-air and slightly better range can play a role here. Pit cant glide under the stage either.
However, the slanted slope at the edges boost Pit's D-tilt spiking ability. This could be in your favor, but not a solid CP.

Pokemon Stadium 1: Pit cant glide under here (PS2 dont allow him to either) and the stage changing messes Pit and his arrows up. You should have a small advantage here.

Luigi's Mansion: Pit hates this stage with a passion, (unless they want to stop a Wario from flying around the place) well, the majority of em do..
His arrows are stopped by the mansion, he cant glide under the stage, and the mansion stops him from ledgecamping effectively. While the mansion will also ruin ur projectiles, you still have the decently-ranged Z-air that can pierce through. You have a decent advantage here, though you'll be sacrificing some projectile capabilities here.

Norfair: Be cautious of this place. This is probably Pit's best CP stage, which he can use to CP Snake, Diddy, ICs, Falco and Dedede. To me IMO, Pit has an advantage here, but not by much.
The stage's platforms allow him to ledgecamp much more effectively, and he can hop from platform to platform without actually standing on them. (If you want to see it, I can show you somehow)
There are 4 lava hazards, and Pit can easily avoid em. 2 of those hazards, the Lavafalls (left of right of screen) and Lava bursts (platform-sized comin from background) can be blocked by Pit's Mirror Shield as long as Pit is holding Shield towards them.

Also, Pit is capable of "Sharking" here.
The term "Sharking" is what we Pits use for "stabbing opponents on platforms above us with U-airs" and is common around the Halberd and Norfair stages. You can camp too, but Pit's own ledgecamping can be much more tricky with the platforms assisting him. I personally havent fought many TLs here so idk how well TL can do. I am however, telling you what a Pit can do here. You'd probably want to ban this place if you dont want a cunning Pit to stall and camp.

Hope I'll be getting credit for what I know.
PS: Call me Admiral Pit.

EDIT: My 1500th post, on the TL Boards!? *faints*
 

Byuusan

Smash Journeyman
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prett detailed Admiral, but liike undr said, i doubt luigi is a viable CP for T.Link to use against Pits, yes it gimps the arrows, but that about it, i think it might hurt T link more then Pit does.

I should also add to that

Pit Advantage

Halberd: I think it at pit's advantage by a slight bit, It possible for Pit to Shark here because the main floors act like a platform for nearly 1/2 if not all the whole fight, there also a platform so it easier to get to T. Link if we need to fight in a shorter range..... yea that about it, because of the floor :), on the ship itself though, i think it pretty fair game.
 

Sosuke

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Okay. Pits done. @_@
Thank you Pit mains.
And Admiral Pit? ^_^;


Pokemon trainers next.
Have fun with that guys. haha =P
 

Bomber7

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Wow this feels a bit... wierd. Anyway...

Pokemon Stadium 1:
Neutral Zone: Gives Bombers like me a hard time because all anyone (like PT) can do is just shield and they will land on the platform above and unless you can retrive it w/o getting hit, then you cant use it anymore. Over all on the neutral zone it's anyones game. Though if we were discussing character match ups then TL would I guess be in favor or it would be a fairly neutral match up. however with the way that the stage is built from underneith its gona be a bit hard for Charz to recover.

Water Zone: The windmill is a dangerous place for TL seeing as Ivy and charz can use their B moves and just keep you held there until TL DI's out. If PT or TL were to ever be ontop of the windmill a good U-smash from either side would be valuable.

Fire Zone: Easily Charz and Ivy's place to be. If TL gets TL in the dead tree area a good Bullet seed and flamethrower will do the trick. also vine whip will go through the dead tree and hit if the person is on the other side.

Earth: I'd say for or less Iv's advantage seeing all the places that TL has to come in vertically which is punishable to a good bulletseed once again. Though on the far right, it can of course be countered from a side persuit but overall I'd say Ivy does well here.

Grass Zone: with all those platforms, TL might get messed up with all the short hopping TL does, Ivy can snipe(term for using his up-b on the ground especially when sweetspotted) and charz can u-smash. I dont see much flexibility for TL here other than to use Zair likme H_R which I know charz has a hard time with.

>>>Squirtle is just a flexible and fast ninjaturtle so all the stages dont really affect him, at most it would be earth from all of those confined spaces.

I'd call PS1 a ban

Counterpick: Yoshi island, rumble falls, jungle japes,

Ban: Castle Seige, Rainbow cruise, battlefeild

sorry for random long explaination then short few listings. i g2g
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
CP Spear Pillar.

Palkia and Dialga are Ubers, they'd sweep those lame UUs and NUs PT uses in no time.

Cresselia can just Boomerang-Cancel them.

Ever wanted a hugeass boomerang with tons of smack and attitude?

C R E S S E L I A

SPEAR PILLARZ IS WIN
 

Rogue Pit

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Please, please go to tournaments. Omg look!! Corneria is not legal at legitamate tournaments. I'm not talking about wifi, actually get some fresh air. Pirate Ship is definately not legal at tournaments. Also if you look at SBR recommended Stage list you'll see that Mansion is not on either.
Idc really but rewrite the synapsis so good Tlink player can actually get help.

I dislike giving advice but seeing as you guys desperately need it. CP a stage Pit cant go under, Yoshis Island brawl or Pkmn Stadium. Norfair is okay but it wont tip the scales that much in your favor. Try FD so you can attempt to outcamp him. Although IMO any player who knows how to PS can easily overcome your spam.

You dont have to ban halbred to overcome Uair is so simple, if they do it untelligently, Spike them. If they dont walk around the bottom platform and just avoid it until they get tire. Pit isnt meta, he can only Uair about thrice before having to get back to ledge. Just wait it out. Plus the ceiling seems to be low. You should be able to usmash him to death about at about 110%. He can usmash you at 140% and yours is more practical to land.
 

TLMSheikant

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Yup Rogue Pit is right. LM and Corneria are banned almost everywhere (including here in PR). Pirate ship isnt tho. And I agree with Rogue Pit's post. As weird as that is.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Iron, we banned Corneria a while ago. We have one of the most conservative rule sets of all lol. The most "fun" counterpick is Rainbow Cruise. =P

But yes, despite the "OMG guys you fail" attitude of Rogue Pit, he's right. Although some of these were done back when Corneria was allowed most places.

I think Midwest still has it available. But you know how silly Midwest can be about stages.
 

chaos11011

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well my brain is kind of dead right now but CP Pirite Ship

its good for TL and
Ivy tether sucks there

when my brain is alive ill come back with more tips

(Fun Fact: as far as I know there are only 2 PT/TL mains (if bomber counts then its 3)
 

Rogue Pit

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I didnt mean to come off as you guys fail but I dislike character boards ran by a wifi point of view. Majority of Pit forum is also which is why I dont post advice anymore. I get nothing out of it.

Anyways rewriting your synapsis is up to you. Although its more inviting to have a “professional” stand point.

Also its Rogue not rouge.
 

Bomber7

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well my brain is kind of dead right now but CP Pirite Ship

its good for TL and
Ivy tether sucks there

when my brain is alive ill come back with more tips

(Fun Fact: as far as I know there are only 2 PT/TL mains (if bomber counts then its 3)
yeah you can count me in as well for 3.

Anyway. I find it odd that somehow Lylat is good for Ivy's recovery when I play there, and horribly enough I play there alot when I play random cuz it just hates me flat out. Norfair, yeah definate no no place for TL. I played against a decent CF player and got owned because he counterpicked there and not only do I suck as TL but even so, the main point is, I couldnt adjust to fighting that close so I failed.
 

Shadow Moth

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Yeah TL definitely needs to space on this one. Squirtle is nearly as fast/as fast as/ faster than Toon Link (I don't know which but he's somewhere around TL's speed). Arrows are probably best because of how quickly TL can pull them out. Approaching could be a problem until PT uses switch, then run in with a bomb.
For that kind of spacing Smashville sounds ideal.
Ivysaur is fairly easily gimp-able so any stage like BF or Smashville is good (actually Frigate is probably the best).
Still thinking about Charizard...
 

Sosuke

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I've been to a few tournaments and both those stages were allowed.

I think you might be thinking of the list Umbreon (or however you spell his user name) made that was "complain proof" to make it easier on TOs who had people who complain about stages.

I don't even know Wifi rules lol. So that sorta has nothing to do with it.
I'm prey sure (almost?) every character also has at least on stage suggestion that is under no means up for a ban anywhere.
 

iRjOn

Smash Lord
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Drawing my imagination, in GA
My b Rogue lol
But no biggie man I was just making fun of you putting OMG lol

But Sasuke to contribute I say NAY!!!!
LEAVE ME MY NAME!!!!!!!!!!!
>_> too much crucible?
yeah any way

CP Frigate, Yoshi's (brawl) and, Halberd
Even Laylat

Ban BF squirtle will quake us there
Even Smashville Squirtle will quake us he has near Marth zoning.
plus his mix up of shell shifting makes it more difficult
But thats the PT's prob he cant keep Squirtle out the Whole match with out draw backs...
 

Sosuke

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bump? >_<;

Little more info? I got little to work with here guys. xD
 

NeoCrono

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I think FD is perfect to CP them, you can out camp them there and they need to be accurate with there recovery do to the lip, this is where I took the one Pokemon trainer I fought in a tournament and I had a lot of success here. But its mostly cause the person wasn't pin point with there recovery and they SD twice. Any stage with a weird lip will do if you notice anything weird about there recovery

Edit: the recovery has to be accurate with Charizard and Squirtle, Ivysaur just needs to be kinda close, but gimping him is as easy as standing on the ledge <_<
 

Jman115

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Apr 23, 2008
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maine
I agree with Rogue Pit.
There are so many characters that have JJ, Corneria, and LM as a conter pick and those three stages are banned in MOST not all, but MOST big/legit tournies. I have a tourney tomorrow and none of the counters for Pit are viable because they are all banned.


As for Pokemon Trainer FD is a decent CP.

Beware any stage with close horizontal edges. Squirtle is a monster and actually has a killer down throw at the edge of a lot of stages. Not as strong as Ness' back throw but close. If you are ever above 120% stay away from the edge.
 

Fearmy

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I agree with Rogue Pit.
There are so many characters that have JJ, Corneria, and LM as a conter pick and those three stages are banned in MOST not all, but MOST big/legit tournies. I have a tourney tomorrow and none of the counters for Pit are viable because they are all banned.


As for Pokemon Trainer FD is a decent CP.

Beware any stage with close horizontal edges. Squirtle is a monster and actually has a killer down throw at the edge of a lot of stages. Not as strong as Ness' back throw but close. If you are ever above 120% stay away from the edge.
Halberd is pretty good for PT, Low ceiling(What we love!!!!) FD is more for TL, higher ceiling, no ledges so TL will dominiate in projectile spam.

Now the "stay away from the edge" squirtle has a tech that i found out where if you grab someone, he'll slide across the stage With the opponent he grabbed. It Easily can get to the edge of a stage and high %'s just wanted to point that out. It's actually not used however, i think i'm the only PT that uses it.
 

Sosuke

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Can I get an explanation / link to a thread with an explanation / link to a video about the Squirtle slide thing Fearmy?
 

Sosuke

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... Are you sure thats the same thing hes talking about?
 

Bomber7

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^^' missed my chance to play Hyro tonight. Sorry guys. I was busy with my own matches tonight so we didnt play each other at all even though I wanted to. So I couldnt really add to anything, cuz I was playing PT all night and wasnt able to fight him so sorry. I think he might still be playing right now. He usually gets like top 5? at worst top 7.
 

Sosuke

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lol I think yo posted in the wrong thread Bomber.
 

Bomber7

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no not really. I was just doing a random post. I was supposed to fight H_R last night but since we were busy, we couldnt. If I had though, I would have posted some feed back on our match concerning the stages we used. o well. I was tired last night and wasnt really paying attention to what I was typing and I forgot what I was gona type lol.

cuz I was using PT the whole time and he was using TL of course. So since it's just by coincidense that stage discussion is on PT, I thoiught I would help out... but it didnt, cuz I didnt have a match...... I'm gona go now. I can think of much more to say other that Lylat I think would be hard for TL and PT miht be able to do well there, smashville is a no no. TL will just own PT.
 

Bomber7

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lucky i have no TL mains in my area you guys make me jelous
well if your location isnt too far from Fort Walton Beach and there is a tourny near by, I wouldnt mind coming into FLorida for a tourny. It would make my week there better cuz last summer I spent the whole week inside playing Fire EMblem on my Wii. the only time I went out was to get myself a Cherry Coke. Because of that I said I wouldnt go to Florida for vacation anymore, but if I can fight you in a tourny, I wouldnt mind going back on my word.
 

chaos11011

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well if your location isnt too far from Fort Walton Beach and there is a tourny near by, I wouldnt mind coming into FLorida for a tourny. It would make my week there better cuz last summer I spent the whole week inside playing Fire EMblem on my Wii. the only time I went out was to get myself a Cherry Coke. Because of that I said I wouldnt go to Florida for vacation anymore, but if I can fight you in a tourny, I wouldnt mind going back on my word.
meh I dont go to offline tournis because of my parents.but if there in a good mood they'll say yes.But first i need to no were it is cause i live in west plam beach
 

Bomber7

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**** i just did a map search.

Basiacally what we are looking at is that you are nearest to Miami, and for me I'm nearest to Pensicola, or to put is in retrospect, Alabama, we where I go on vacation every year and where oyu live are on the two opposite sides of FL. :(
 

chaos11011

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ah darn it TT_TT around april i do a road trip to massatuesets every year to see my realitives (unless they come here) so maybe when im on the round if i happen to be close to Louisiana maybe we could brawl
 

NeoCrono

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Okay, I played one of my friends today. We played a couple of sets, and his Pokemon trainer has trouble on Pirate ship, Lylat cruise, FD

Lylat and FD mainly cause they have to have pin point accuracy with there recoveries or they die, and its really hard on Lylat due to the stage moving

pirate cause if the ivysaur tethers to far from the stage...... they die
and it gives us a way of spiking without any real risks (except charizard can spike you)

Ban Luigi's mansion due to the fact that we cant camp as well as we need to in this match up.
That's all I got :)
 
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