Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}

[Sosuke]

Marios done. Thank you Mario games.


Marfs newxt.

.... <_<

 

[iRjOn]

Hey Chip helped me with this
:D

Halberd is a good CP
I personally think Lylat is
Ban BF; Marth >.<...
Yoshi Island (brawl) is good for Marth too so kinda maybe ban that.


Wheres VG >.>...<.<...π.π

He must summon his Marth friends
Wheres Steel2nd? >.O

 

[Shaya]

Steel2nd is taking life changing/determining exams.

Marth does fine on all the neutrals against Toon Link. Yeah I'd probably ban Battlefield, but it doesn't really change much in Marth's ability to CP.

Marth generally only naturally loses to characters with superior recovery on Frigate and Rainbow cruise.
To outcamping I'd say Jungle Japes is the best.

 

[Remzi]

Ban BF, it makes your camp less effective, and it's Marths favorite stage in general.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Japes might be good. Since it really favors projectile users and it is one of Marths worst stages. Also, FD might work.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Marth
--------

Counterpick: Final Destination, Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise(?)
Ban: Battlefield

 

[Ashraf23]

Marth:

Counter- Final D
Ban- BF

Good Marths are pretty hard to camp so you might have to play a bit more aggressive. I have a lot of exp. with Marth and he can definantly punish Tl off stage at points. So when playing him you have to controll the stage and use prjectiles with smarts.

Ban BF:
Ban Battle feild simply because marth can use the stage against you. There are platforms there for him to get by projectiles.

Pick FD:
It might be a bit easier for you to camp him. Tl has a good shot of using the stage and its retarted edges to benefit him lol. There isnt anything in your way to not be able to spam Zair on him and dirupt his spacing.

There are clearly more CPs and bans to pick on Marth.
Overall- 5:5 even

 

[VietGeek]

Pick FD or Rainbow Cruise or Delfino. Ban Battlefield or Lylat.

Marth generally does just as well or better than you on almost all stages. If Norfair is available, feel free to choose that since you can ledgecamp among other gay things.

I wouldn't recommend Jungle Japes since TL's best kill moves are vertical, and Jungle Japes has a huge ceiling. TL's camping isn't really that amazing unless you're ledgecamping anyway so you're losing out by choosing that.

Choose stages with lower ceilings and lots of running room. Unfortunately there's not much you can do against Marth with most counterpicks.

Unless you're in the Midwest but I digress.

/is running on Vista and will upgrade to 7 beta soon.

Vista doesn't entertain me.

 

[Sosuke]

Marths done. Thanks Marth mains. ^_^

Meta Knights next.
..... yup.

 

[Gates]

The only stage that's really bad for MK is Yoshi's Island Brawl, and even then it's not that bad. Just go to whatever your best stages are and avoid Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, etc.

 

[iRjOn]

MK...he out beats us on every stage Ban BF he ***** hard here.
FD could be a CP or Smashville
Even though he still pwns on Smashville.
His worse stage is Pirate Ship I think but its worse for us still.

 

[Gates]

Aside from not being able to gimp 90% of the time, Pirate Ship isn't that bad for MK. I have a much harder time on Yoshi's Melee.

 

[Eggz]

toooooooooooon liiiiiiiiiiiiink

 

[Crizthakidd]

lol i would hate nay toon link to take me to pirate ship. anyway FD is not as good vs mk as u think. u can go all out prokectile to sword play here because arrows to arials are sexy yet insanely anoying. smashville usually gets u guys ***** cuz the floating platform helps mk a lot more

 

[VietGeek]

The only stage that's really bad for MK is Yoshi's Island Brawl, and even then it's not that bad. Just go to whatever your best stages are and avoid Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, etc.

How is Yoshi's Island Brawl bad for MK? Small space for foes to escape, if you control the middle of the stage you're grand, ceiling is fairly big so he won't die as easily, and it has a giant platform he can platform camp on, furthering his control of the stage.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, Yoshi's is by no means an auto-loss for MK, and on paper it can seem like he'll have an advantage, but for some reason it's always the stage I have the most trouble with. The fact that there's only 1 ledge makes gimping extremely hard and the best way to kill on it is off the top on the sides, which MK is ok at but not as good as killing off the sides. The nature of the platforms on Yoshi's don't really benefit MK either.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Ban any stage that has low platforms in the way. Because MK can get you above them so easily, it is best that they aren't there. Also, you have the most projectile freedom when on a non-platform stage.

 

[VietGeek]

Yeah, Yoshi's is by no means an auto-loss for MK, and on paper it can seem like he'll have an advantage, but for some reason it's always the stage I have the most trouble with. The fact that there's only 1 ledge makes gimping extremely hard and the best way to kill on it is off the top on the sides, which MK is ok at but not as good as killing off the sides. The nature of the platforms on Yoshi's don't really benefit MK either.

Most people I know do not like Yoshi's very much. It's small and cramped like Fountain of Dreams in Melee.

On paper it looks good for a lot of pressuring foes like Marth or MK but I personally dislike it as well.

And Dsmash is a horizontal kill move so I don't see how that's something MK is okay at. I'd say the huge ceiling helps tip it in his favor. Gimping is a little harder since stage spikes are nerfed from the flat sides but there's always good old dair and those evil semi-spikes.

Mk does well like on all neutral stages so CPing MK is rather difficult and player dependent.

Course you can try Green Greens or something lol.

 

[Santi]

I hate YOshi's against MK even though I do alright on it.

The edges actually make it more dangerous for me to get gimped.
I can't go under the stage if I need to. The platform can really get in the way and be gay and the MK can live forever on that stage.

BF or Smashville would be my choice for a neutral if the MK striked Final.

and I ban frigate.

 

[TheJerm]

I tend to do good on frigate even though I dont care for the stage much. What dont you like about it santi?

 

[Lobos]

MK huh.....I usually cp brinstar and ban smashville/BF/yoshi island......depending on how I feel about who Im playing

 

[Chip.]

Wooooooooow Eggz posted in this thread and no one cares to notice <_<

Brawl kids these days.... neva respect your elders

 

[BlueShield]

Awesome, I can't wait for the MK one. I hate fighting him. D:<

 

[Santi]

Wooooooooow Eggz posted in this thread and no one cares to notice <_<

Brawl kids these days.... neva respect your elders

omgzzzz Eggz


I notice I notice

*bows*

I care I care.

He said Tooooooon Link





lolsies

 

[Lobos]

Wooooooooow Eggz posted in this thread and no one cares to notice <_<

Brawl kids these days.... neva respect your elders

I get him confused with eggm.......

 

[Sosuke]

*posted about Eggz in the general discussion thread to seem less fanboy-ish*

=P

 

[Sosuke]

Well, I'm going to have to double post to bump this sooo.... ._.
Yeah.

Thanks MK mains! ^_^
(And Eggz, just cuz)



Ness is next.

 

[Uffe]

I can't recall the match up numbers on this one, but I believe it as Toon Link having a slight advantage against Ness. And if TL is used correctly, as in good projectile and approaching, it is very well possible for him to beat Ness. I've been using TL for about a week before I stopped playing Brawl and I remember fighting a Ness main and I basically won the match. However he did make a come back against me and he beat my TL.

TL has a pretty decent aerial game and we all know Ness' is far more superior. TL's smash attacks seem pretty obvious and seem almost situational. His f-smash is good because it has a double smash and you can delay it in case your opponent shields it or just cancel it. And yeah yeah, we know, TL's recovery > Ness'. But let's get this one out of the way. I fought a Ness main on the boards last night with TL and I tried to cancel his PKT2 with my Boomerang and Arrows, but it didn't happen. I suppose I could have just spiked him, but I didn't want to take that risk.

Anyway, I think this match up is in TL's favor just slightly. 55:45 on TL's behalf.

 

[TLMSheikant]

@ Uffe- This isnt a matchup discussion its a stage discussion. U didnt mention anything about stages.

I would CP stages that let us spam more and keep away from ness' great aerials. Like FD, Smashville and Lylat Cruise. I would go with Lylat cruise bcuz TL benefits from the stage layout and ness will have trouble recovering sometimes there. And the tilting doesnt interrupt that much with our spam (except for arrow cancels). I would ban stages like Pirate Ship and aerial based stages because his aerial game owns.

CP: Lylat cruise, FD

Ban: Pirate Ship, Rainbow Cruise?

 

[AvariceX]

You don't need to ban RC against Ness, Ness will pretty much never cp that stage; it isn't very good for him.

CP: Lylat, Yoshi's. Both of those stages can mess up our recovery pretty bad. Ness is actually pretty good on FD and Smashville.

You should ban stages with abusable water like Pirate Ship and Delfino. PS2 (if it's legal) you don't have to worry about as much since you can drop right through the wind juggle with your dair. I don't know what TL's think of Castle Siege but it's one of our common counterpicks.

 

[Gaussis]

Lylat is somewhat managable though. The one Nesses generally lean away from is YI, since it disrupts his playstyle both onstage and offstage. Too many things can lead to early stage gimps and the stage itself is set up in a way that is uncomfortable to Ness.

Ban any stage with water. These benefit Ness greatly since water gets rid of inherent offstage danger and can abuse opponents in the water to his advantage.

 

[Earthbound Zero]

I love Lylat...

Anyway, Ness' worst stage is generally Yoshi's Island, like what everyone else said, the Shy Guy's and platforms kill Ness' ability to recover on this stage.

The tilting platform will be a nuisance, considering it messes up certain Utilt, PK Fire, and PK Thunder combos, etc. The stage is just horrible for him.

 

[Liex Link]

I love Lylat...

Anyway, Ness' worst stage is generally Yoshi's Island, like what everyone else said, the Shy Guy's and platforms kill Ness' ability to recover on this stage.

The tilting platform will be a nuisance, considering it messes up certain Utilt, PK Fire, and PK Thunder combos, etc. The stage is just horrible for him.

Agreed. Well for me I hate to play on Norfair with Ness.

 

[thesage]

My worst stages are Lylat and Yoshi's.

My best is Norfair and Delfino.

Generally I ban Yoshi's and Lylat isn't a neutral here. I'd cp a tl to Norfair, since I think Delfino is a pretty good stage for him.

If Pirate Ship isn't banned Ness might also cp there.

Can't really think of anything else.

 

[Uffe]

Counterpick:
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) (I still have yet to know why other than that Platform Ghost)
Lylat Cruise (Not doing me much harm)

I can't think of anything else to be honest.

Ban:
Final Destination (I couldn't care less. I hate that stage)
Delfino Plaza (Though I don't go there anyway)
Pirate Ship (Same thing applies as Delfino Plaza)
Castle Seige (For the most part)
Brinstar (Ness' personal playground)
Green Greens (Possible 0% death, I won't share where)
Corneria (Same thing applies as Green Greens)
Pokemon Stadium (Melee)

I can't think of any other ones. I've played every stage in the game and will continue doing so, except those ridulously large ones and Hanenbow.

 

[PKSkyler]

Well I can give you some *personal* Ness info.

Id personally pick Pirate Ship or Brinstar vs Toon Link. Probably Brinstar, and Delfino is a popular ness cp.

Pirate ship has water which helps ness` recovery, can lead to metoer smashes, and lets you camp with pkt (sometimes.)

Brinstar lets you set fire to lots of things with pk fire, the lava can save your recovery, and the small stage can limit toon links camping.

Im not so sure about delfino vs toon link cause its a big place and easier for tl to camp.


I dont know where i really suck. Maybe final D? xD Or maybe lylat....

 

[TGYDK]

Just the other day, in a tournament I was in, I was playing against a top notch wolf player. The first round we went to battlefield, I got destroyed, The platforms makes it easy for wolf to get around, and stops your projectiles pretty well. Also, he can do that B> glitch through the stage and it'll kick your *** if your not ready for it. For my counter pick of the second match, I really had to think of a way to get that wolf on the defense, so i thought of pokemon stadium 1. Most people would probably think "this stage isnt a wolf CP! its just like all the others just it changes a bit!" well sort of. If the wolf player isnt familiar with the stage, recovery WILL be difficult. In my fight, the wolf got killed by the lip all 3 stocks. I won the match simply by getting him off the edge and his recoveries would get him stuck and he would die. After that we picked smashville where i lost the match in a close match, that stage sort of played like the battlefield match, as he could go through the stage with B> again and his gun was free to get in my way. This stage did do a lot better for me then battlefield did, but not enough to make it an advantage.

Also, Lylat cruise looks like a stage that would screw up wolfs recovery, so if you can get him off the edge just hope for the best I guess.



edit: Characters like Olimar who have tether recoveries would struggle naturally on Frigate Orpheon, and you have room to get your projectiles in, so this could give you an advantage on some of them.

 

[PKSkyler]

Wolf does horrible on lylat, while Toon Link can still survive and not be put at a real disadvantage.Wolf`s laser often just hits the ship dude to its tilting (like 50% of the time.) Skilled Toon Links can still edge camp even though lylat`s edge is really weird. And I think wolf cant SCAR on Lylat.

 

[Sosuke]

Ness is Done.
Thanks Ness mains! =)


Olimar is next.

 

[Fino]

*points at sig*
(I'll write stuff later... just saw you gaying our forums)
Toon link is gay

~Fino

 

[Dyyne]

*points at sig*
(I'll write stuff late... just saw you gaying our forums)


~Fino

Your sig isn't there silly
Anyway, I don't have too much experience with Toon Link. He seems kinda tough to grab, since he's so aerial and the whole arrow canceling or w/e it's called on landing interrupts the grab. He's also surprisingly tough to camp with his mobility. Bombs blow up when thrown if latched, blah blah blah.