Toon Link Q&A and FAQ Thread <- VISIT THIS THREAD BEFORE CREATING A NEW TOPIC

Mister Eric

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Hellu Toon Link Boards, you might be seeing me a lot here in the next little while asking questions about your character and how they perform on a certain stage.
Character boards seem to cycle through incomplete MU threads to new ones in hope to update them and finally complete them. This is the R.O.B. Boards attempt at completing a sufficient stage-discussion thread and I'm going to try my best to get accurate and thorough information, but I'll need your help. This will be the only question with an introductory. I just wanted to say hello and let you know that if you guys need info on anything for R.O.B. don't hesitate asking. ^_^

Anywho!

Q: How does Toon Link fair off on Delfino Plaza in general and against R.O.B.. Why is it good or bad? What can Toon Link abuse and what might possibly annoy you that R.O.B. can do on this stage? On a scale of 1 - 10, what do you see Toon Link's chances of doing well on this stage against R.O.B. 1 being the worst for you 10 being the best.

thanks guys =]
<beep3
 

MJG

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I really only have a problem vs ROB when I am on frigate. I have some matches vs Kiraflax that will be up sometime this week (I am guessing) and you can see what I am talking about.

Delfino would be about even I would say...no advantages or disadvantages to us being there.

Eh I hate rating a stage like this because it is based off of the player.

I would give it an 8
 

masterson189

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Hi my name is mike and I am from the milwaukee area WI. I am relatively new to brawl having only been playing for a few months but I am pretty religious about reading the forums and watching video. My AT skill is pretty so so at this point only using SHDA Ibombs RAR and zair to nair and I still mess those techs up a good 30% of the time but hey practive makes perfect right? Anyways my question is wondering about any tips for setting up downward bomb throw to Uair as a kill move, I have seen it in lots of videos and it seems like a really solid option but I can't quite get it.

Also I am curious if there is any interest in making a thread discussing which type of controller/controller set up people use. Ik it is all up to personal preference but I am curious to here what other toons use and why. Thanks.
 
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Hi Mike.

Anyways my question is wondering about any tips for setting up downward bomb throw to Uair as a kill move, I have seen it in lots of videos and it seems like a really solid option but I can't quite get it.
There is no setup for the Bomb -> Uair. The bomb itself is the setup for the Uair. Basically, you're supposed to catch your opponent off guard and throw a bomb down while you're above him. If the bomb lands, he'll be sent upwards.

Let me clarify a little bit. If you throw the bomb more to your opponent's LEFT side, he will be sent up and to the right, so you know that you want to drift your Uair a bit to the right, since that's where he's being sent.

If you throw your bomb to your opponent's RIGHT side, he well be sent up and to the left, so like before, you must drift yourself to the right. Fast falling your Uair helps a lot because 1) you can intercept your opponent faster, and 2) if you miss, you'll land on the ground faster.


Also I am curious if there is any interest in making a thread discussing which type of controller/controller set up people use. Ik it is all up to personal preference but I am curious to here what other toons use and why. Thanks.
There's no thread, but it has been discussed numerous times in the past, and in different threads here.

Anyways, here are the changes that I make:

R set to jump: I use this because it makes SHDA'ing a lot easier. Also, it's easier to JC throw like this, since it feels more like glidetossing. Also, I use R to Fullhop Nair short opponents like Ness. If I were to use X and A, chances are that I would miss because of the delay between pushing buttons. With R and A, Nair comes out much faster.

Y set to Grab: Simply because I hate the Z button.
 
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I don't really know how to explain it, but here's a video on what glide tossing looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDtdmdkzaro

Basically, you get a grounded, horizontal momentum boost while throwing objects.

With JC throwing, you can get pretty much the same thing. The only difference is in the mechanics. JC Throws give you the boost by canceling your jump. Glidetossing boosts you using your roll. The range for both JC Throws and glidetosses varies between characters.

Also, some characters don't have glidetosses (like Toon Link), but all characters have JC Throws. Oh, and you can JC an Up Smash.
 

~TLK~

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altho u can do a reverse upsmash and turn around at any time so just dont hit anyone with the back lol.
 

PSI.kick

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Hey im an oli/ness main but i like to second tl every once in a while, I've tried and tried to get his projectile game down but i've realized that i would have to change my controls to do half of the useful arrow techniques. I like tl but i just cant get the hang of his projectile game (with the exception of bombs). I was wondering if he is still a viable character without arrows, I do use boomerang every once in a while though. I seem to be alright with him without using projectiles too much, but i'm thinking of dropping him because of it.

Can tl still be good with little projectile use?
 

NH Cody

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You're going to need projectiles lol...

Just go aggro with aerials if you want to. But always keep projectiles out there so you can distract your opponent while you go in to attack him/her. Projectile pressure is necessary to play TL at a high level.
 

Mota

"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
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Projectiles is a large part of his game, so you'd want to be adept at using them and mixing it up.

Personally I don't use arrows all that much apart from the usual arrow cancel and reverse arrows, which aren't that hard to do. The main bulk is TL's bombs and then his boomerang. I suppose if you really don't want to use arrows you don't have to, but they do have their uses and it's nice to keep the opponent guessing and watching out for it.

How would you change your control? I use default everything and pull stuff off fine.

Overall you need projectiles, sets up combos and kills, racks up damage whilst keeping yourself safe, pressure, camp, recovery. Everything is projectiles lol
 

Veel

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Just curious: how does charging Toon Link's Forward Smash work out with the two hits? Does it increase the damage/knock back/stun of the first hit any or does it merely effect the properties of the second attack and the first hit is immutable?
 

~TLK~

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its basically impossible to catch with the second hit if you charge it up unless you are right next to them(which you should only be doing if u broke their shield). so it does increase the damage and knockback of the second hit and the knockback and(maybe) the damage of the second one.
 

CTX

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its basically impossible to catch with the second hit if you charge it up unless you are right next to them(which you should only be doing if u broke their shield). so it does increase the damage and knockback of the second hit and the knockback and(maybe) the damage of the second one.
No...
No.
And no.

If you do this, and get away with it, the person doesn't know how to do the basic of SDI or just regular DI.
TL's fsmash is soooo easy to get out of, and if you are using it on a shield break you are gonna be disappointed when only the first hit of it connects.

Wanna know how to beat TL's fsmash?

If you are light, hold up. That easy. Or Up and behind TL and shield grab him out of the second hit of fsmash.

If you are medium weight, hold up and jump.

If you are heavy, hold down, and shield grab.

That easy, and it will work everytime
 

The Nix

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OK reposting question here: So I'm playing a Marth that uses sword's dance alot. The first hit will shield poke me 50% of the time and if you get hit by and of the combination you are stuck getting hit by the rest of it. I was wondering if there are any tricks to avoiding it or getting around it. I can't seem to punish it either because it's cool down is shorter than the start-up lag for any of t.links attacks. Thanks.

I was told it shouldn't shield poke but it does very often, and when I get hit by it I do try to DI out but it doesn't have knockback until the last hit. Suggestions to punish were shield grab, but this doesn't come out fast enough. I try this and either it gets ground dodged or he does another blade dance before I catch him. My jabs don't reach far enough as Marths sword is longer than Tlinks and I'm usually being attacked from perfect spacing. Nair or Bair again isn't fast enough it gets blocked, dodged or another attack comes out that is faster. Also I understand I don't want to be near him but Marth is faster than Tlink so if I run away or try to create space marth catches up and is attacking me before I can get any projectiles out. I think I'd like to put up a vid or two of our matches to be more clear.
 

Chsal

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DI does not necessarily need for you to be hit by something with lots of knockback. It just needs hitlag (Meaning, every move in the game except Tornado, unless I'm mistaken).

So I am almost certain you can SDI out. One or two quarter-circles towards him should pop you out behind him.

If you haven't already, I suggest reading this guide :
A Complete Guide to DI and Survival (updated Mar. 6th 2009)

Ideally though, you don't get hit and therefore don't need SDI.

About shield poking, I don't think it should shield poke all that much, but there is a way to make it not shield poke at all. While shielding, slightly tilt the stick and you can shift the shield a bit. Shift it up or down depending on where the sword is coming from and you should be able to block everything.

Now regarding punishes... To make this simpler, this is what Marth's Dancing Blade done perfectly works out in frames. This is also his "Normal" red version, as the red version is fastest. Others are +1 or 2 frames slower. I haven't included shieldstun.

|1st Hit | Hits on frames 4-7| Cancels on frame 15 |
Frames 7-21 ARE FREE. That is 14 frames. Enough for most OoS options.

|2nd Hit |Hits on frame 21-25|Cancels on 28 |
Frames 25-33 free. 8 frames, probably best to keep the shield up, or jump out.

|3rd Hit | Hits 33-37 |Cancels on 39|
Frames 37-49 free. 12 frames. Probably can pull something out here.

|4th Hit | Hits 49-54 | Ends on 92 |
He is in lag 54-92. Thats 38 frames. More than half a second. You could pull off almost anything on him.

As for running away from him.
-Jump + Air dodge past him. I mean circle camping.
-Run past him. Varies from opponent to opponent. Typically, most people will throw up a shield expecting you to attack. Others will just smack you in the face =P... Try it one or two times, if it doesn't work don't bother.
-Cover yourself with projectiles. Eg. Chuck a bomb at him, and run through him. He will probably shield, or air dodge the bomb and that should be a good time.

Otherwise, watch videos of really good players or just play more until you adapt to it.
 
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Hello, I've been casually playing Toon Link, but I've decided I want to seriously main him now.

Something I'd like to ask Toon Link players is the best way to Zair. I've had trouble with SH -> Zair because although SH works fine when trying to do any other aerial, when I try to do it with Zair, it ends up being a full hop (I jump with X).

I've been searching and asking around for the easiest/best way to Zair, and I've found the options are Zair-ing on the way down, not up, AD after jumping, or simply just improving on quickly tapping the jump button.

But in the end, I just want to know the most efficient way you TL players find to Zair; thanks!
 
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The best way to Zair would be as you are falling down, and not as you are rising.

1. If you do a rising Zair, it'll fly over the heads of some characters, and you don't want that.

2. The reason why falling Zairs are so good is because they auto cancel when you land. This is important because you want to be able to hit your enemy and end the attack as soon as possible so you can go for the follow up (Nair, Grab, etc.) If you were to do that for a rising Zair, you would have to wait for your character to stop going up, then fall down so you can attack, and that's way too much time being spent.

3. The best way to Zair is to Air Dodge before it, because sometimes if you just try to Zair without the Air Dodge, you won't Zair. You'll simply air dodge.

4. You also shouldn't Air Dodge > space yourself > Zair. Players will read the action of air dodge > spacing yourself and instantly know that you're going to Zair next, which will lead them to throw up their shield. It's best to space yourself, then almost simultaneously, do an air dodge > Zair.

The only exception to this is if you're using your air dodge to dodge an attack before you Zair.


Hope that helps. Welcome to the TL boards btw!
 
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The best way to Zair would be as you are falling down, and not as you are rising.

1. If you do a rising Zair, it'll fly over the heads of some characters, and you don't want that.

2. The reason why falling Zairs are so good is because they auto cancel when you land. This is important because you want to be able to hit your enemy and end the attack as soon as possible so you can go for the follow up (Nair, Grab, etc.) If you were to do that for a rising Zair, you would have to wait for your character to stop going up, then fall down so you can attack, and that's way too much time being spent.

3. The best way to Zair is to Air Dodge before it, because sometimes if you just try to Zair without the Air Dodge, you won't Zair. You'll simply air dodge.

4. You also shouldn't Air Dodge > space yourself > Zair. Players will read the action of air dodge > spacing yourself and instantly know that you're going to Zair next, which will lead them to throw up their shield. It's best to space yourself, then almost simultaneously, do an air dodge > Zair.

The only exception to this is if you're using your air dodge to dodge an attack before you Zair.


Hope that helps. Welcome to the TL boards btw!
Thanks a lot! I was having trouble spacing because of my Zair fails.

And thanks for the welcome, I'll be jumping around the boards to improve my Toon Link skills.
 

southpaw

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so if nair and bair come out on frame 6 would that mean that Oos nair/bair would be as fast as a non-tether shield grab? I know the jump cancels the shield drop, but is there some frames during the jump animation that would make aerials come out slower?
 

Chsal

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There is a jump animation.

To be exact, Toon Link's is 8 frame, with the Nair/Bair starting on 9.

Meaning your Bair/Nair will hit on 14.

First grab frame of grab is 12.

So Bair/Nair is at least 2 frames slower. Most people won't be able to OoS Nair perfectly, so slap a couple frames onto it.

But Bair Nair is probably still safer, because you get owned if you miss the grab.
 

Chsal

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You don't need good OoS options when your opponent can't catch you and you're throwing crap at them all the time =D.

Well, honestly ~14 OoS isn't too bad.

In brawl hitting a shield tends to give you a frame disadvantage, so in theory they have to use something a lot faster to actually hit you.

Then add in the fact that Full jump OoS dodges most things.
 

Jaxys

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I am not entirely sure if this was already mentioned, but here goes:

I've noticed that if you jump (either Full Hop or Short Hop), do a back aerial and then Quickdraw an arrow in the same direction that your Bair was aimed at, Toon Link will move a tiny bit in a the opposite direction in which you shoot the arrow.

Though I am not sure about its uses, here are my current theories:

Short hop is better for combos and spacing, I believe. Back aerial would knock them back a bit and the distance covered by the arrow would add some damage as well. Compared to regular shorthopping and Bair-ing twice, it does less damage (6% less) but it could potentially be useful for lead up to some combos/camping because the arrow offers less ending lag then a cancelled Bair, even though the difference is slight.
Maybe even mindgames, but I'm not sure if that'll happen.

The only use I found for a full hop is when you're at the edge of a platform, such as FD, and you're edgeguarding. If you FH with your back facing the opponent and then Bair, Toon Link will move to the outskirts of the stage by a tiny bit. followed up with a quickdraw, the little movement that follows will bring Toon Link close enough to the edge so that he can grab it and then perhaps edgehog with his tether.

The arrow limits the possibilities your opponent has to recover because it basically acts as an obstacle that could limit them from using a horizontal recovery move (Ike's Side-B, Falco/Fox's Side B, etc). During the time that the arrow is launched, the said Toon Link should have enough time to grab the edge and do whatever he or she would like to do.

Or, you can just do it to look flashy. 8)
This was basically the result of me trying to imitate HyRo's "sexiest arrow cancel" and noticing something interesting.
 
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