Toon Link Matchup Thread

[Timbers]

Lucario has more range then Toon Link either you believe me or not...he does.

I don't believe you and I think it's pretty idiotic that you try to make a claim like this without even testing it.

TL's nair, fair, bair outrange all of Luc's aerials but the bair, and the bair is rather slow and punishable. On top of that, TL's bair and nair (first hit) are faster startup than anything Luc has in the air but dair (and possibly tied with nair, I can't remember now. Nair has such pathetic range that it shouldn't be an issue here anyways)

Toon's uair outranges Luc's dair. Toon's dair outranges Luc's uair, etc. Toon's tilts have roughly the same range as Lucario's, and his jabs outrange Lucario.

So yeah, please do some research before making blind claims.

Lucario can kick ALL his projectiles without punishment. If anything it should be the other way around and Lucario has an advantage over Toon Link

No we can't just kick away your projectiles. If we did this we'd end up with fair landing lag a ton of the time and you'd be able to easily mosey in for some punishing. Luc has no safe on block moves in this match, something that Luc is generally thriving on (Toon's jab and grab have dumb amounts of range and speed on them, enough to punish Lucario afterlag when grounded)

TL has way too many answers oos to give Lucario's approach trouble.

It's not until Luc reaches 100% where he can start doing anything productive, when aurasphere reaches a high enough priority to start eating your projectile game and forcing you to approach.


I don't think the matchup should be any rougher than 55:45 TL, but your reasoning is very flawed.

But yeah, I found it weird when the Lucario boards handed us the edge in the match-up. We only have projectiles over him, while he has range, kills well, lives long (plus the fact that TL sucks at killing makes this a bad thing).

Should we invoke the Lucario boards to redo the discussion?

Read above. I agree that the fsmash is very clutch in this match for Lucario, and being able to live as long as Luc can in this match is beneficial, but everything else I disagree with. You have projectiles, superior brickwalling, range, oos options, edgeguarding options, superior spacing. Luc just has a dominant combo potential and a heavy hitter in the higher percents. Toon can shut down Luc's pressure game very well, and is pretty **** small to make comboing in the lower percents much more difficult.

 

[Jash]

I don't believe you and I think it's pretty idiotic that you try to make a claim like this without even testing it.

TL's nair, fair, bair outrange all of Luc's aerials but the bair, and the bair is rather slow and punishable. On top of that, TL's bair and nair (first hit) are faster startup than anything Luc has in the air but dair (and possibly tied with nair, I can't remember now. Nair has such pathetic range that it shouldn't be an issue here anyways)

Toon's uair outranges Luc's dair. Toon's dair outranges Luc's uair, etc. Toon's tilts have roughly the same range as Lucario's, and his jabs outrange Lucario.

So yeah, please do some research before making blind claims.


No we can't just kick away your projectiles. If we did this we'd end up with fair landing lag a ton of the time and you'd be able to easily mosey in for some punishing. Luc has no safe on block moves in this match, something that Luc is generally thriving on (Toon's jab and grab have dumb amounts of range and speed on them, enough to punish Lucario afterlag when grounded)

TL has way too many answers oos to give Lucario's approach trouble.

It's not until Luc reaches 100% where he can start doing anything productive, when aurasphere reaches a high enough priority to start eating your projectile game and forcing you to approach.


I don't think the matchup should be any rougher than 55:45 TL, but your reasoning is very flawed.

Have YOU ever played this match up? I have played this match up a lot of times and i am not wrong. I play good Lucarios such as NinjaLink, Glitch and K.D. I know what im talking about, Lucario outranges Toon Link. I bet you didn't know that if Toon Link Dairs from above, if you time it right Lucario can Up tilt Toon Link without punishment. Yea...didn't think so.

 

[Timbers]

you're an idiot lol.

it's a 3 minute job to test range. Luc's most fundamental aerial (fair) is heavily outranged by Toon's own air game.

Don't give me this "it outranges just because I say it does" bull****. If you won't even take the time to research such basics to a character matchup then you shouldn't be posting.

And utilt hits in an arc. It can hit characters' hurtbox before connecting with their own hitbox. Granted, most of the time Lucario will trade hits with the hit due to utilt having a very small disjointed hitbox. The majority of his hurtbox is extended throughout the move. I can't believe you think that's groundbreaking LOL.

I can't tell if you're just trying to cover up a difference in player skill or not, but I can't help but suspect it after these "facts" you blatantly threw out, which were um..yeah, wrong.

and I sound like I'm bashing my own character. I'm not, I just don't see the point in lying to myself about what Luc can and can't do.

 

[Jash]

you're an idiot lol.

it's a 3 minute job to test range. Luc's most fundamental aerial (fair) is heavily outranged by Toon's own air game.

Don't give me this "it outranges just because I say it does" bull****. If you won't even take the time to research such basics to a character matchup then you shouldn't be posting.

And utilt hits in an arc. It can hit characters' hurtbox before connecting with their own hitbox. Granted, most of the time Lucario will trade hits with the hit due to utilt having a very small disjointed hitbox. The majority of his hurtbox is extended throughout the move. I can't believe you think that's groundbreaking LOL.

I can't tell if you're just trying to cover up a difference in player skill or not, but I can't help but suspect it after these "facts" you blatantly threw out, which were um..yeah, wrong.

and I sound like I'm bashing my own character. I'm not, I just don't see the point in lying to myself about what Luc can and can't do.

Lol anyway Lucario out ranges Toon Link. Also im not sure about Wolf, it could be in his favor because his blast ONLY. Other then that im not sure.

 

[Timbers]

no sir

 

[flyingcow989]

I dont know about you timbers, but lucario's range gets pretty bull**** when he has high damage or less stocks. Particulary, lucario's dair has ridiculous horizontal range, not just vertical. Combined with the fact that lucario's dair comes out almost instantly, it makes it very hard to attack lucario from beneath

 

[Timbers]

Lucario's range doesn't fluxuate, only aurasphere size.

I was talking about range. Someone claims that Lucario outranges Toon Link, I tell them that they're wrong.

Air games in general I think Lucario has a dominant air game. Range isn't everything, look at like Wario or something. Dair is very awesome. Uair might outrange it but I don't really care lol. Unless the Lucario is like, trying to land on Toon, then the uair shouldn't be a problem at all. Luc's dair is fast enough to punish anything within his range.

 

[Sosuke]

Dnt *** wit Timbers.

Spoiler

Joke, for the record. <_<

 

[distructo91]

Well is f smash is pretty ********. It's range is freaking long. Just when you think there will be lag at the end and you have a chance to u smash or something, he brings out another one. And that's part of the reason he's **** broken at the edge. But i still think toon link still has a huge advantage over him.

 

[KingK_tink]

Nice stuff, reading atm.

 

[Jman115]

Lol anyway Lucario out ranges Toon Link. Also im not sure about Wolf, it could be in his favor because his blast ONLY. Other then that im not sure.

In my experience Lucario doesn't out range me. And yeah wolf has a strong blaster but it is not as versatile as TL's projectiles. Wolf's blaster is predictable. It is always going to go straight and the same distance. TL can change the distance and direction of his projectiles. He can spam multiple projectiles at once. He can "combo" with bombs. And the fact that he has 3 different projectiles, one of which he can carry with him and do numerous things with allows for more mind games than wolf.

 

[Everence]

i'm surprised at how toon link is going despite that listed here he has at least 80% match ups in his favour or even, losing out to metaknight and a few strange characters such as squirtle. even then its only 40:60

 

[Steeler]

surprised that squirtle is one of only 3 advantages on tlink

even more surprised that you got the squirtle matchup right



although you are waaaaay overestimating the zard matchup and ivy could be near neutral.

 

[Bonehimer]

Don't mean any disrespect but how reliable is this thread. Mainly asking cause of the date that it was last updated.
Last edited by JesiahTEG; 06-18-2008 at 08:14 AM.

 

[Sosuke]

=(
Maybe I should attempt a new one. It seems to be needed now. I'll put a lot of effort into it.

And tips on writing one of these Jesiah? ^_^

 

[Jman115]

to write one? You have to look at all the freaking character boards and information gathered from individual character match up discussions and compile it all into one thread. That will take a while No fun way to start that project.

 

[Low Rider1717]

I has a question
Does TL Really Counter CF by that much?
I mean TL is lightweighted so CF wont have a hard time killing him

 

[Nem0]

Toon Link out-projectiles both ROB and Pit... regardless of how many people stubbornly refuse to accept that. Aside from the fact that Toon Link's are INSANELY malleable to the situation at hand (bombs up-close, boomerang medium, arrows far), and not to mention that they can be strung together almost perfectly for sizeable amounts of damage every time, he continues to beat out ROB and Pit on a very basic level.

Pit has one projectile– extremely effective at first glance, but it very quickly becomes predictable. Many will argue that due to its ridiculous rate of fire and its control ability, it is one of, if not the most effective projectiles in the game. That's just it though: one-on-one, Pit's arrows will beat out any one of Toon Link's projectiles, however when you combine the bombs, arrows, and boomerangs, in all their devastating potential, Pit's arrows simply can't stay on top. Toon Link's defense against almost any approach is simply too effective, and as a combined force, his projectile game is much more versatile than Pit's.

ROB is a closer match. His two projectiles are both stronger and better at deterring approaches than Pit's. They do more combined damage than Toon Link's and they also generally come out quicker, with much less warning. However, Toon Link still retains one giant advantage over ROB here, which is his ability to string his projectiles together with relentless attack power. ROB can, at full effectiveness, hit you twice. He can hit you two times without having to wait for his gyro to disappear, re-charge the gyro again, and stall while his laser also re-charges. Toon Link can toss out a boomerang, fire off three arrows (off of a short hop for even more usefulness) as the boomerang goes out and returns, all while keeping a bomb ready in his hand. Throw in whichever few A-moves you'd like (probably aerials), and you are literally, almost every single time, guaranteed some sort of hit on the target..... every time. It would be different if ROB could toss a few arrows while his laser recharges, but that isn't the case. It's too easy to catch ROB while his projectiles are down, allowing for an easy approach, when as Toon Link you can just barrage your enemies into a nearly foolproof attack.

Sure, Pit's arrows might be a better projectile, technically speaking, than Toon Link's arrows... and ROB's laser might be better than Toon Link's boomerang... but when comparing each character's projectile game as a whole, Toon Link comes out on top. His ability to combine all three of his projectiles to suit nearly any scenario presented to him makes him a better "projectile fighter" than the other two.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

The sheer versatility of the bombs also has to count for something.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Personally I find the DK matchup to be pretty even. My roommate plays Tink so its my most frequent matchup. The projectiles aren't as big a problem for DK as his size would suggest, and he has a pretty good range and power advantage on Tink. Both of their bairs **** the other but I think overall Tink probably does have the advantage in the air, so DK really wants you on the ground where his tilts will hold things down. Tink is harder for DK to gimp than alot of the rest of the cast though, and DK can get gimped himself a little in this matchup, so that is one good advantage on the Tink side. However, due to Tinks light weight DK can kill him pretty early, Dsmash is probably the best KO for DK here.

Overall, I think pretty even, maybe 55:45 either way.

 

[supersupersuperguy]

I, personally, like to play as Toon Link. He's my main. I beat intense classic with him. I like his speed, average power is good, his range is good, but I love his down aerials. I annoy everyone I can with it. My expirence with him and the lists like this I've seen, I expect he will move up on the teir list.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Intense <anything other than Boss Rush> can be beaten easily with anyone, since you can continue.

His dair has the propensity for some good usage, but it tends to be overused, and it's EXTREMELY punishable once you start getting predictable...especially in the air. >.< They dodge it, you die.

His range IS good, but many of the top-tier boys (MK, Snake, Marth, and even ROB) can outrange you.

 

[Sharky]

HEY GUYS!!!

Us Yoshis are talking about you guys now in our match-up thread. Go to the unpinned one, that's the new thread. =) Come on down, we'll have a grand old time! =D

 

[fox219]

Tl = top tier

 

[Sosuke]

Wow can you please edit and get rid of that stupidly long and pointless quote?.

-_-

 

[fox219]

Wow can you please edit and get rid of that stupidly long and pointless quote?.

-_-

sure..............

 

[fox219]

This can't be possible! 7 neutrals and 3 disadvantages!!!!??????? Surely he will rise in the tier list

 

[TLMSheikant]

Who cares if hes mid tier? Hes still tourney-viable which is what matters. And TL will never be top tier. High tier yeah he WILL be. Right alongside kirbeeehhhh.

 

[Fabian the Fastman]

Kirby- 7:3 Toon Link

How the hell is it that bad for Kirby?

 

[Rutger]

How the hell is it that bad for Kirby?

This topic is an old and outdated, the matchups are not reliable.

 

[Popertop]

where is a reliable source for TL matchups then?

 

[Santi]

where is a reliable source for TL matchups then?

me :D

10jks

 

[VietGeek]

The other match-up thread <_<

 

[Popertop]

Oh, THAT one.

 

[onionchowder]

There's something seriously wrong with this thread.

if TL's only bad matchups are ROB, MK, and Squirtle, that makes him on par with G+W in the tier list

EDIT: lol nvm, saw the other thread XD

 

[SonicFire]

Yeah, a lot of the match-ups threads have a lot of flaws/mistakes/whatever you want to call them.

You have to look at it from both characters' points of view. Better to leave it to those with experience from both sides.

 

[Neenja13]

No match up thread will be 100% perfect.

 

[ExCeL 52]

This is .. really really really biased.. 7:3 for TL against Peach? 7:3 for TL against Ness.... C'mon... cut the ****.

 

[BlueShield]

I think Toon Link holds a better chance than 'Even' against Falco. At least by one point. Fighters like Falco, mainly the ones from Star Fox, and also those who rely on tethers most of the time, need to aim for the ledge. Links zair edgegaurding is the best. And I think that deserves something in this case. I've done my fair share of Falco and Toon Link has the upper hand.

 

[Ashraf23]

I agree with you on TL and Marth being even. But I disagree with the Squirtle match up. I believe TL should have the edge on him. I think Tl has better variety of moves and ground game. Also has the projectiles to back him up on too. They are both good in the air, I'll give Squirtle the edge on that part by a bit.

Overall i would say 7:3 TL.

That sounds good.