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Tomafia 3 - Game Over, Town wins!

Matunas

I'm a monster!
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Matunas
I’m linking posts because if I did quotes this would be way too long.

wait ok ok ok hold on...before i rebuttal...can someone actually state WHY im getting voted on? all i can see is that because im not worth anything. I'm sorry if exams have kept me busy, and seeing my family and friends before I leave for a vacation has kept me off the boards too. Matunas, what exactly do I have going for me?

Macman, omnis? didnt help us find strat, strat basically screwed himself with the huge john.

All omnis? has done is divert attention away from himself by making himself a leader of the group and rallying all the townspoeople to vote for someoen else other than him.

This is all i have to say. I am not the mafia. Inactivity = mafia, especially right around christmas time.
You want to know exactly why? Well if you had carefully read the posts Ronike and myself made you would see a few outlined ideas as to why. But if you want I’ll point them out more directly.

The deadline. One of the lesser reasons, but it is a factor. We have to choose someone by the 24th. We have to lynch (I know we can do a no lynch, but it would be a bad idea to do so) and you are the best candidate – for the reasons listed in my previous post and those listed below.

Post 37 - You start the game off wondering how to find out information. That’s fine, most people with their first mafia game have no clue how to go about doing things on the first day. But, and I’m not trying to nitpick you here, you could have easily done a little research into other games and checked out what actions were taken in those. This is not a serious offense by any means and I’m not trying to blow it out of proportion, but it shows that you didn’t take the time to look into the game seriously.

Post 70 - As of this point in the game you have said nothing of any worth and continue to ask “What do we do?” You had mentioned that maybe a no lynch was an option here but that you were unsure, which I thought was good, seeing as I was the one who asked people to throw out every option. But when it was brought up that a no lynch on day one is always a bad idea you never mentioned it again and went back to your, “I’m new to online mafia” defense.

Post 77 - I’m using this post to point out that you talk about MexicanBJ stating that “Mafia members tend to stay active to divert attention away from each other.” You also semi-support the “lynch an experienced player” here, something Stratford was for.

Post 94 - You say that inactivity isn’t a big deal, when it really is, and then continue to point out an inactive person as suspicious because of his inactivity. Eor is a known around here as a very good mafia player. It’s easy to point the finger at him and people are often willing to jump on him because he is good. Ronike at least can probably back me up on that one. It’s easy to say that people might not have time to post constantly or big posts, and then immediately put suspicion on someone who is always looked with a wary eye. But you use the reasoning of him being inactive to begin. That logic makes no sense.

Post 95 - The post I pointed out earlier regarding your comment on MexicanBJ’s comment was so I could reference it here. There you agree with him that mafia would probably be active. You then point out here that most people assume that mafia lay back so they stay active. As supported by my previous comment, you are promoting the idea that “inactivity means someone isn’t mafia.” Maybe not in those exact words, but close enough. Who was inactive at this time that you hadn’t pointed fingers at? Stratford?

Post 113 - This is a very weak case of you defending Stratford, but it’s subtle and it’s there. The rest of the post goes along with your following two posts.

Post 115 and Post 116 - You go back to your “Nothing to go off of, I don’t know who to vote for.” It should have been pretty apparent by this time that day one there is never much to go off of. I know it is hard on day one and when you are new, but posting that you don’t know what to do just to be active doesn’t help anything and in fact makes it look like you want to stick around but don’t want to be noticed – a very similar strategy to Stratford.

Post 127 - Another case you semi-defending Stratford. It is a logical point to make and many of us had this issue around this time, but you still made the point to do this for Strat.

Post 156 - You act like you want to talk about something, but you never actually do. Figuring out who targeted Marshy, or who Marshy talked about would have been a good idea – still is in fact – but you don’t elaborate. Instead you show us how little dedication you have and aren’t willing to go back and look. Either you didn’t care, or you were lazy.

Post 159 - You do the same thing here as with your post I linked above. You state something to do, don’t elaborate on it, and then never bring it up again. It’s as if you want us to think you’re contributing something and then not really doing it. This is poor play even if you are town.

Post 162 - You again talk about how you don’t feel like going back through the thread. As I said before, going back and looking at previous posts is an integral part of mafia. So either you don’t need to because you don’t have to look for reasons, or you don’t care about the game enough to do your research.

Post 188 - You barely defend yourself here and instead shift the attention to omis?. Yes I agree omis? has some suspicion behind his posts, whether it be the general makeup of them, the leadership thing, or his poor posts at the beginning of the game. I have stated my reasons previously why I don’t think we should lynch him today and I don’t like the fact that you completely divert the attention away from you onto someone who had a lot of people against him on day one. Don’t get me wrong, no one likes to be targeted in mafia, but you did a poor job of stating your case.

Post 191 - This is still a poor reason. If you have something to say, even if it is repeating what someone else said or agreeing then at least you are contributing something that pertains to the point of the game. Even an “I agree that omis? is suspicious” would be better than, “others said it so I don’t see why I should post.”

So you want my reasons out on the table? There they are. You post strategies to seem useful, and then do no follow up of any kind. You defend inactivity, and yet attempt to use is as a starting point of discussing Eor. You defend Stratford, even if it was meant to be as a kind thing to do, it now comes off as a subtle way to stop him being targeted. You show us through various posts that you don’t have the dedication to the town to even go back through the thread and read. Instead of giving valid reasons towards your defense you divert attention to someone else, conveniently someone who had plenty of people against him on day one.

Yes I found you suspicious when I originally voted for you and there is why. I feel we will be taking out a mafia with a junglefever lynch, and if he turns out to be town, then we're taking out a weak link.
 

#HBC | Mac

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sorry jungle but matunas pretty much solidified what I thought.

I personally think, that like me, Omis made a bad move. By requesting to be leader, he felt that he could run with his accomplishment of targeting strat and use it to make himself immune. I guess he believed, as did I, that if he were to achieve such a position of immunity (even temporarily) that the town would come out on top because our chances of winning would be much greater.

Strat played a terrible game. And junglefever did a little better than him, but pretty much went down the same path. Also the fact that the only move you made in this game was to protect strat bothers me.

with that

Vote: junglefever6478

I'm pretty confident in this vote.
 

Tom

Bulletproof Doublevoter
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Vote Count: [4/7 to lynch]
Junglefever: (3): Matunas, Rockin, Macman,
Not voting: (4): Omis, MexicanBJ, Ronike, Junglefever

Deadline has been set for Wednesday, December 24th, 2008, Noon EST.
At deadline, the person with the most votes will be lynched.
Deadline CAN be retracted if enough people ask for an extension.
 

#HBC | Mac

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I was rereading the thread and:

woah...interesting...i need to sign in more oftenn
This was after strat was lynched and an hour before Tom announced that Marshy was killed by mafia. This post bothered me because it seemed like a john for why he wasn't there to vote for Strat. He didn't seem pretty enthused about catching mafia either. It also bothered me that it was so soon before Tom announced the mafia kill.

killing one of our senior members eh? interesting turn of events, never thought marshy would be the one to die...
This also sounded suspicious to me... letting us know that voting marshy would be the furthest thing from his mind.
 

Ronike

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Yeah... all excellent points, and props Matunas... I prolly wouldn't have had the patience to do that, but all are excellent points. And yeah, Eor is fairly easy/hard to go after, because when he is mafia, he has few to no tells like a lot of other players, so its easier to say that he is mafia as you can't really say "Well, he didn't do this, which he always does when mafia!" So yeah, Ima hold off voting on jungle for now, but tis more of a courtesy manuever. Unless he comes out with something amazing here, I'm gonna hammer him.
 

MexicanBJ

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to be completely honest, im not exactly convinced on jungle even despite Maturnas's huge post

yes all of those could be read as suspicious but my feeling is that that's simply how he acts/talks (after all, i do know him in person)

im not trying to take anything away from anyone who has supported lynching jungle and i'm also not saying he's completely innocent but i just feel like you guys are reading a little too into everything

let's be honest, if we disected everyone's words, anyone can come up with explanations as to why someone's really suspicious

i do not believe jungle is mafia.
 

Matunas

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to be completely honest, im not exactly convinced on jungle even despite Maturnas's huge post

yes all of those could be read as suspicious but my feeling is that that's simply how he acts/talks (after all, i do know him in person)

im not trying to take anything away from anyone who has supported lynching jungle and i'm also not saying he's completely innocent but i just feel like you guys are reading a little too into everything

let's be honest, if we disected everyone's words, anyone can come up with explanations as to why someone's really suspicious

i do not believe jungle is mafia.
That is how this game is played. We have to look into everyone's posts like that because people purposefully put things in their posts. I know that you knowing Jungle affects how you look at the situation, but try to look at it through the eyes of those who don't.
 

#HBC | Mac

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So jungle is gone and hopefully he was mafia.

MexicanBJ I do not really understand where you are coming from. Jungle is pretty much the most suspicious by far. Who would you have rather wanted to see lynched? Maybe you are biased because you know him in real life.

I also don't see why ronike was hesitant to vote for him...

I dunno, i guess I just thought that this was more or less a no brainer.

I just thought about the possibility of there being an independent in the game. Because in tomafia 1 there was 1 doc, 1 cop and 2 mafia with 7 ppl in total. I personally think that with 9 people Tom would add 1 or 2 additional roles, and an independent would probably make sense.
 

Tom

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The seven remaining chefs are feeling pretty good about themselves. One of their friendly chef-mates is dead, but one of the mafia is dead too! Finding the rest is going to be a piece of cake.

“How about that guy”

“Naw… I dunno…”

A long silence threatens to derail all of the plans to avenge the King.

“Yeah, lets get that guy.”

“Yeah.”

“Yeah, okay.”

“Okay, and lets get him before he gets to say anything back!”

All of the remaining chefs push Junglefever towards the cake. He stumbles and falls right into it, shakes a little, and falls right backwards out of it. Icing covers his face.

“Long live the King…”

junglefever6478 (chef doctor) has eaten from the cake!

Day 2 ends.
Night 2 begins!


Night actions are due in 48 hours.
 

Tom

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You all are shocked that you've killed your doctor, and you tread back towards the round table for a drink. After you've all taken a sip, you suddenly remember the murder a la poison that took place last morning.

You all panic and drop your water glasses... but nothing happens.

"Is everyone okay...? Is everything... okay...?"

"It's the work of the mafia!"

"You said that yesterday. Shut up."

Nobody has died!

Day 3 begins!
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
 

#HBC | Mac

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wtf...
**** jungle was the doc, i feel stupid now. i really don't know what to think....

and no night kill?
That means their may be another doctor or a role blocker. Unless mafia felt the need not to kill someone today.
 

MexicanBJ

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alright i just went through the roles again, i think we must have a role blocker in this game....

it's possible to be a another doc like macman said but my guess is that tom would choose a more diverse set or roles rather than just make 2 of one type
 

Ronike

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DUde, omis? what the hell? You never lynch someone without letting them get in there and defend themselves! Sure, he may have been on for alittle bit, but that was a big post, and big posts take a long time to defend against! He prolly just didn't have the time at the moment to defend against it! Plus it hadn't even been 12 hours before you hammered him! With that and every thing else:

Vote: omis?
 

Omis

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why is this relevant?
I believe, if there is not a roleblocker, the mafia is someone whom already has a pretty secure status in our decision circle. By not killing someone, he is giving us little new leads. To someone who already feels secure, they might not want to give us any new leads.

@Ronike
I'm sorry, but that is how I do things.
 

MexicanBJ

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yea honestly, i'm not trying to john for jungle or anything but he has been traveling........and found it extremely surprising when he was lynched

i guess he could have done better and all that voted made a mistake

and in response to omis?: i really don't think any mafia would choose not to kill during the night. like sure what you're saying makes sense.....but it's just a free opportunity to get closer, it's as simple as that

this is why i'm almost positive there's a roleblocker
 

#HBC | Mac

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actually...
Mafia choosing to no lynch would statistically be a smart move on their part.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Numbers,_Part_1

As you can see Mafia has a greater chance of winning if there are an even amount of people during the day. Although I doubt that Mafia was thinking this I just want to make sure people realize that this tactic is not that farfetched. Also the above list really only applies to black and white games, where there are no roles other than vanilla townie and plain mafia.
 

Rockin

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@Ronike
I'm sorry, but that is how I do things.
That isn't fair though. Junglefever has every right to try and defend himself, whether life is slowing him down from doing so or not. Your quick vote just shows that you just WANT to axe him just to keep moving along. We even gave Stratford a chance to defend himself.

Vote: Omis?
 

MexicanBJ

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omis? response????

im kinda waiting, or i'll vote too...(if that gives you more incentive)
 

Ronike

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Give him some time... It is christmas after all... However, Omis? "thats the way I do these things" doesn't really cut it at all for a defense...
 

#HBC | Mac

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I don't think we should be so quick to vote omis? out, there are alot of things going on and voting some one out really quickly would not be smart I don't think. Either way, we should wait for him to reply.
 

Omis

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I'll respond even though I realize the wrong in my earlier action. The way things were going it seemed almost certain in my mind that jungle was mafia. As we now know, that was not the case. However, the general consensus among most people it seemed was him being guilty. Jungle was the first person I ever found suspicious so when he came under light I felt like I was on a role. This lead me to lynch him without hearing his full argument. In addition, with the holidays rapidly approaching and me not going to be hear friday through saturday I wanted to wrap up what was going on. I thought that the train of thought might be lost with everyone including myself leaving. In my arrogance, I voted him out in the almost certantity that he was guilty. Im sorry everyone. This was a boneheaded error on my part which we all regret.

Also can we take an informal poll on something? Mexican brought up the possibility of their being a role blocker. I just want a quick show of hands on whom thinks that there is one. I personally do not think there is one.
 

MexicanBJ

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ok, call me skeptical.....but omis? is pretty **** good at changing the topic/diverting attention??
 

#HBC | Mac

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I don't see why we are targeting omis?, after matunas's post I cast my vote for jungle either without waiting for a response. I honestly thought jungle was mafia and that the game would be over. I feel like targeting omis wont get us anywhere. Especially when there was no kill yesterday night and it seems like everyone just wants to ignore it. There is a good chance there is a role blocker in the game, and if there is they know exactly who is mafia. But then there is also the possibility that mafia chose not to kill anyone. Which makes things even more confusing.
 

Omis

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I don't see why we are targeting omis?, after matunas's post I cast my vote for jungle either without waiting for a response. I honestly thought jungle was mafia and that the game would be over. I feel like targeting omis wont get us anywhere. Especially when there was no kill yesterday night and it seems like everyone just wants to ignore it. There is a good chance there is a role blocker in the game, and if there is they know exactly who is mafia. But then there is also the possibility that mafia chose not to kill anyone. Which makes things even more confusing.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. IMO it is more important to find out why there was no night kill than get another reason why I might be mafia. Of course Im not going to dawdle on the thought of me being mafia. Ive been accused of being mafia every day so far. I'm trying to bring us to what I thought was more important.
 

Omis

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In case no one saw, Im not going to be here Friday through Sunday. Im going to my grandparents home for Christmas celebrating. If anyone wants to chew me out do it today.
 

Ronike

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I don't see why we are targeting omis?, after matunas's post I cast my vote for jungle either without waiting for a response. I honestly thought jungle was mafia and that the game would be over. I feel like targeting omis wont get us anywhere. Especially when there was no kill yesterday night and it seems like everyone just wants to ignore it. There is a good chance there is a role blocker in the game, and if there is they know exactly who is mafia. But then there is also the possibility that mafia chose not to kill anyone. Which makes things even more confusing.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. IMO it is more important to find out why there was no night kill than get another reason why I might be mafia. Of course Im not going to dawdle on the thought of me being mafia. Ive been accused of being mafia every day so far. I'm trying to bring us to what I thought was more important.
Its one thing to cast a vote without explanation from the votee, but it is a terrible thing to hammer vote and finish off someone without an explanation. The former just gives the votee more incentive to defend themselves, but once they are hammered, there was nothing he could do. The likelyhood of us voting him off regardless is irrelevant.

Sure there may be a roleblocker. Have you ever considered that they might be coming forward with their knowledge by supporting the crusade against omis? Another possibility we haven't considered is perhaps only one of the mafia members had killing power, and thats the one we got.

I'm still keeping my vote on you omis? You just haven't defended yourself well enough for my tastes, and you've always been suspiscious in my book.
 

Omis

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Its one thing to cast a vote without explanation from the votee, but it is a terrible thing to hammer vote and finish off someone without an explanation. The former just gives the votee more incentive to defend themselves, but once they are hammered, there was nothing he could do. The likelyhood of us voting him off regardless is irrelevant.

Sure there may be a roleblocker. Have you ever considered that they might be coming forward with their knowledge by supporting the crusade against omis? Another possibility we haven't considered is perhaps only one of the mafia members had killing power, and thats the one we got.

I'm still keeping my vote on you omis? You just haven't defended yourself well enough for my tastes, and you've always been suspiscious in my book.
Regarding your second paragraph, I dont think anyone attacking me is trying to crusade something. I have simply been voted for too many times for me to think special of anyone doing that. How do we go about finding the other mafia if only one has killing powers? Do we go with a no lynch and see what happens?

I'm sorry I can cleanse myself in your eyes.
 

#HBC | Mac

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Sure there may be a roleblocker. Have you ever considered that they might be coming forward with their knowledge by supporting the crusade against omis?
I was thinking this:
I also wanted to come out with the plan that the roleblocker should claim, and than tell us who we blocked.
This plan seems guaranteed assuming there are only 2 mafia.
Case 1: The claimed role blocker is who they say they are and we catch the mafia, Town wins.
Case 2: The claimed role blocker is mafia in disguise. However this is foolish because we would find out he's we lynch the wrong guy. Then we just lynch him next. Town wins.

Problems with this however:
Problem 1: Theres a independent with a night killing power and he claims. We miss lynch, and then the next night 2 people are killed, one from the mafia and one from the independent. We are then left with just 3 people, making it impossible for the town to win.
Problem 2: There is more than one mafia, this ones obvious.

I can't really think of any other possibilities unless Tom made up some crazy *** roles.

I didn't really want to make this point because I didn't want to give potential independents any ideas. But I feel like we need some kind of game plan. And this is all assuming their actually is a roleblocker and the mafia is not just ****ing with us.
 

#HBC | Mac

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I just thought of something else, maybe the role is not a roleblocker, but is actually a nurse. On some mafia games, the nurse takes over the doctor's role when the doctor dies.
sighh
too much **** to think about... maybe I'm looking into this way too much, but something seems fishy about this game.
 
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