Legend of Zelda Timeline Discussion

[Phantom7]

Hey quick statement/question...

Am I wrong to thing the cel shading is a way to state which timeline the game belongs to or am I just reading to much in the styles..?

I think that's true for the most part. OoT and MM have identical artstyles. WW, PH, and ST are all cel-shaded. TP uses the pseudo-anime-realistic art style, and it's alone in the timeline. LoZ, AoL, LttP, LA, and OoX all use similar art style. And TMC and FSA use identical artstyle.

SS introduces the new impressionist artstyle, which makes sense in terms of the timeline, since it doesn't have any direct prequels or sequels.

 

[Masky]

I think that's true for the most part. OoT and MM have identical artstyles. WW, PH, and ST are all cel-shaded. TP uses the pseudo-anime-realistic art style, and it's alone in the timeline. LoZ, AoL, LttP, LA, and OoX all use similar art style. And TMC and FSA use identical artstyle.

SS introduces the new impressionist artstyle, which makes sense in terms of the timeline, since it doesn't have any direct prequels or sequels.

This kind of falls apart when you consider the Four Swords games/Minish Cap, which use the WW art style

 

[Ganonsburg]

Aren't there moblins in AoL? And it takes place after Ganon dies... >w>;

Also, I just read the timeline with the generation stuff. And boy did Zelda I miss out on a lot.

By, "Don't need Ganon to exist," I meant that they didn't need Ganon to bring them into existence. Once they exist as a species then they obviously don't need Ganon to keep going. But in AlttP (I think, I haven't played the game but I read this) it says that Moblins were what Ganon's army transformed into when they went into the DW/SR.

But what I thought were Moblins in SS are only Bokoblins, so there's no problem (yet).

 

[Phantom7]

This kind of falls apart when you consider the Four Swords games/Minish Cap, which use the WW art style

But they're not cel-shaded...

I also noticed that ALttP, OoX, and LA use a slightly different art style from LoZ and AoL. Now that I think about it, those games really do belong in a different arc of the timeline.

 

[Masky]

But they're not cel-shaded...

I also noticed that ALttP, OoX, and LA use a slightly different art style from LoZ and AoL. Now that I think about it, those games really do belong in a different arc of the timeline.

Yes, but they all use the same art style, it's most obvious in the box and promotional art/in game closeups

 

[kirbywizard]

Does Link's Awakening even play any major role in the timeline? Wasn't it all just a dream?

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

A Zelda Physics Question

I was thinking about the timeline and I thought of something is timeline breakage trans-deminsional? What I mean by that is if hyrule's timeline is split would termina's timeline be effected in any way or vice versa. Is there evidence to support yes or no?

To help clarify what I mean let's say for an example the answer is no then hyrule's timeline is seperet from termina's so a split in hyrule's time line whould not effect termina there for when the hero of time saved termina and for some wierd reason a guy from the adult time line came into termina the termina he would see is the same termina the hero of time visited.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

I was thinking about the timeline and I thought of something is timeline breakage trans-deminsional? What I mean by that is if hyrule's timeline is split would termina's timeline be effected in any way or vice versa. Is there evidence to support yes or no?

To help clarify what I mean let's say for an example the answer is no then hyrule's timeline is seperet from termina's so a split in hyrule's time line whould not effect termina there for when the hero of time saved termina and for some wierd reason a guy from the adult time line came into termina the termina he would see is the same termina the hero of time visited.

Is this something like what you mean?

Its kinda crappy and doesnt make a lot of scense but it came to mind after I read your post. Did I read it wrong? I was on the phone at the time( **** blockbuster message system!)

 

[Masky]

^ that picture makes no sense

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

^ that picture makes no sense

Yes I did say that...

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

@AngryMoblyn1881 sort of what I am asking is if the timeline split in hyrule effects termina so just because termina is saved on the child timeline does not mean it is destroyed on the adult time line in fact I am trying to say is there is no split time line in termina other than the one inflicted on it by the hero of time on his stay there. However it seems that you understand the question. thanks, but can anyone think of evidence to support or disprove this theory?

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

@AngryMoblyn1881 sort of what I am asking is if the timeline split in hyrule effects termina so just because termina is saved on the child timeline does not mean it is destroyed on the adult time line in fact I am trying to say is there is no split time line in termina other than the one inflicted on it by the hero of time on his stay there. However it seems that you understand the question. thanks, but can anyone think of evidence to support or disprove this theory?

I think an old thread called post-apocaliptic termina could help a bit (see page 2 of this forum)

And this is similar to what I was thinking about a bit back. I thought that because TP happened right after (100 yrs) MM so What he did in termina effected the landscape and ppl in hyrule, because I belived termina was hyrules future. But i am not so sure of that now. But I beleve that the the other part of the theory could still work

 

[Spire]

I think an old thread called post-apocaliptic termina could help a bit (see page 2 of this forum)

And this is similar to what I was thinking about a bit back. I thought that because TP happened right after (100 yrs) MM so What he did in termina effected the landscape and ppl in hyrule, because I belived termina was hyrules future. But i am not so sure of that now. But I beleve that the the other part of the theory could still work

Why would what Link do in Termina effect Hyrule's landscape? They don't have a cause-effect relationship. Termina is simply an alternate, parallel dimensional world to Hyrule.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

Why would what Link do in Termina effect Hyrule's landscape? They don't have a cause-effect relationship. Termina is simply an alternate, parallel dimensional world to Hyrule.

LOL, its ok I realise that now. And landscape was just an example, and maybe like they merged bothe worlds together somehow. I dont know.. I am tired

 

[Spire]

LOL, its ok I realise that now. And landscape was just an example, and maybe like they merged bothe worlds together somehow. I dont know.. I am tired

No, there is no evidence of this. It's all fan-fiction on your part and you can wish it all you want, but that's not what happened.

 

[Dre89]

Why would what Link do in Termina effect Hyrule's landscape? They don't have a cause-effect relationship. Termina is simply an alternate, parallel dimensional world to Hyrule.

You know they only said that to save time/money on having to model new characters right?

I read this theory stuff and I'm curious- Why do you guys do it?

You know the developers haven't put anywhere as much energy into thinking about this as you guys have, they apparently admitted to making up the storylines two months before the games come out.

So I'm just asking, do you guys do it for recreational escapism, and know they just make new games when they want to make more money, or do you guys actually believe that the developers have really thought this all through, and that they have a massive timeline that they're planning to fill up with games?

I'm not attacking you guys or anything, I'm just curious to know what the motive behind this all is.

 

[Spire]

I really don't theorize anymore. I stopped after ST for obvious reasons.

I can tell you the motive though: there is a lot of Japanese folklore in the Zelda games that westerners just don't understand. Because of this, we formulate our own lore to fill this void so we can better understand the fictional world of the Zelda universe.

 

[Masky]

I really don't theorize anymore. I stopped after ST for obvious reasons.

did you really hate the Lokomo that much?

 

[Ganonsburg]

You know they only said that to save time/money on having to model new characters right?

I read this theory stuff and I'm curious- Why do you guys do it?

You know the developers haven't put anywhere as much energy into thinking about this as you guys have, they apparently admitted to making up the storylines two months before the games come out.

So I'm just asking, do you guys do it for recreational escapism, and know they just make new games when they want to make more money, or do you guys actually believe that the developers have really thought this all through, and that they have a massive timeline that they're planning to fill up with games?

I'm not attacking you guys or anything, I'm just curious to know what the motive behind this all is.

Well, I'm the type of person to look for connections and meanings in everything. It stems from my love of math, I think. But it does tick me off that Nintendo doesn't put more effort into making this less painful for us. They really should have just said, "It's just various retellings of the same story, like legends are IRL" and left it at that.

 

[Phantom7]

Why would what Link do in Termina effect Hyrule's landscape? They don't have a cause-effect relationship. Termina is simply an alternate, parallel dimensional world to Hyrule.

Haha, I beg to differ. I believe I may have posted this before, but there are a couple of (theoretical) examples of cause-effect relationships between Hyrule and Termina:

1) The awakening of the 4 Giants of Termina and the 4 Light Spirits of Hyrule.

2) The Dark Interlopers invading the Sacred Realm using the Fused Shadows as Skullkid invaded Termina's Moon using the Majora's Mask.

Also, I don't know exactly how to explain how this could happen, but TP's Hyrule layout is much more similar to Termina than any other design of Hyrule.

Remember this?

 

[Spire]

Yes I remember that and all it does is support that Termina is an alternate world to Hyrule and that with TP, they realized that they should (for continuity's sake and tying into the N64 games) redesign Hyrule to reflect Termina to emphasize that they are two parallel worlds. There is nothing suggesting that Termina is future Hyrule, only that which you insert yourself.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Technology?

 

[Spire]

Technology?

I'm not even going to bother anymore. Technology has come in many forms throughout the history of the series. Hell, Link's Awakening may have been a dream, but there were telephones in it.

 

[Phantom7]

There is nothing suggesting that Termina is future Hyrule, only that which you insert yourself.

What? I never suggested that Termina is the future Hyrule, just that they are parallel and the events that occur affect the other kingdom. The new Hyrule layout resembling Termina probably exists to signify that the kingdoms are parallel, and the occurrences from MM have affected Hyrule.

I'm not even going to bother anymore. Technology has come in many forms throughout the history of the series. Hell, Link's Awakening may have been a dream, but there were telephones in it.

You know, I think Nintendo really likes to mess with our heads. At least LA is not supposed to fit in the Split Timeline, so I'm okay with the fact that it doesn't make complete sense regarding technology and... whatever else.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

I'm not even going to bother anymore. Technology has come in many forms throughout the history of the series. Hell, Link's Awakening may have been a dream, but there were telephones in it.

I thought the game ( althought never played it myself) was taken place on an island after his crash at sea? This could very well mean that it wasnt hyrule you know.

 

[Spire]

I thought the game ( althought never played it myself) was taken place on an island after his crash at sea? This could very well mean that it wasnt hyrule you know.

It's based on an island out at sea called Koholint, but it's all a dream. The point is: technology means nothing in Zelda other than it's never been all that advanced. Phantom Hourglass and Majora's Mask saw the highest forms of technology outside of maybe the Goron Mines in TP.

 

[Phantom7]

Technology honestly makes absolutely no sense in Zelda. How do you explain the Hookshot? Guns aren't even around, yet you can use a spring-loaded chain to latch yourself onto objects.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

When logic does not cut it, it must be magic.

Also do not question the hookshots because there awesome. (joking)

jokeing aside it is imposible even with are technology of today to replicate the hookshot.

 

[Spire]

Technology honestly makes absolutely no sense in Zelda. How do you explain the Hookshot? Guns aren't even around, yet you can use a spring-loaded chain to latch yourself onto objects.

Exactly my point. Technology is not an indicator of when a game takes place in the timeline. A lot of people believe that LoZ/AoL, ALttP, and LA take place either after TP or after PH/ST, yet they're the most medieval-fantasy of all the games.

There is nothing indicating that Termina is future Hyrule. That's just a fan fiction pipedream.

When logic does not cut it, it must be magic.

Also do not question the hookshots because there awesome. (joking)

jokeing aside it is imposible even with are technology of today to replicate the hookshot.

Well the hookshot is kind of impossible, what with using a metal chain and all.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

It would be impossible to use the hookshot the way link uses it that is what I mean by replicating the hookshot.

 

[AngryMoblyn1881]

The most logical hook shot was that of WW, it was simpaly a rope Loved it

 

[Spire]

Cukeman's Timeline from Zelda Universe

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/3519341-post76.html

[collapse=Cukeman's Timeline]My name is Cukeman, and this is my timeline:

This post will explain the unofficial acronyms found in my timeline, as well as the timeline itself.

- The creation myth. Told in the ALTTP manual, OOT and TP. C = Creation

- Lanayru's account of the interlopers. Told in TP. IC = Interloper Conflict

- Impa's account of the sleeping spell cast on princess Zelda. Told in the AOL manual. SZ = Sleeping Zelda

- The account of the hero of men. Told in TMC. HOM = Hero Of Men

- The account of how Vaati became sealed in the Four Sword. Told in the FS manual. FSBS = Four Swords BackStory

- The Deku Tree Sprout's account of the fierce war. Told in OOT. FW = Fierce War

- The account of Ganon's return to Hyrule. Told in TWW. TWWBS = The Wind Waker BackStory

- The Sages' account of how Ganondorf was sealed away via the Mirror of Twilight. Told in TP.
TPBS = Twilight Princess BackStory

- The account of why the Triforce of Courage was hidden, and where. Told in the AOL manual. TOC = Triforce Of Courage

- The account of how Ganon got the Triforce and was sealed away in the Golden Land. Told in the ALTTP manual.
IW = Imprisoning War

The Reasoning behind my Timeline -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creation:
OOT says that the goddesses descended before life and time existed.
Thus, I place the creation myth before everything else.

Interloper Conflict:
Lanayru's tale implies that the Interloper Conflict is the first upset since the initial
peace after creation. This coincides with the theory that the Interloper Conflict
describes the original discovery of the Triforce. Plus, the Mirror of Twilight seems
to date back long before the Ocarina of Time era.

Sleeping Zelda:
I find no reason to believe that this legend is not accurate. In an attempt to learn
the location of the third Triforce, a magician casts a sleeping spell on the original
princess Zelda, thus beginning the naming tradition.

Notes:
AOL tells us two separate legends. Impa gives an oral account of the Sleeping Zelda
legend, then Link reads the Triforce of Courage legend written on the scroll. If you
try to combine these two legends into one story - with the interpretation that the
scroll was written by the father of the original princess Zelda - then it just won't work.

Hero Of Men:
The Picori gave the Hero Of Men the Picori Blade and the Light Force.
The Light Force was given to the royalty of Hyrule, and passed down to
The Minish Cap's princess Zelda.

Notes:
Since The Minish Cap's Zelda inherited the Light Force, it makes sense that the
Sleeping Zelda legend occurred before the Hero Of Men. The original princess
Zelda is not going to pass down the Light Force while she is in a coma. TMC says
that the Light Force has flowed in the veins of every royal lady since the day
when it was gifted to her people.

The Minish Cap:
It is obvious that The Minish Cap follows its backstory (Hero Of Men). The
Pegasus Boots help to place TMC in the Hylian age, as does the Small Shield
Link receives from Zelda. That the Picori's delight in making humans happy
by hiding helpful items and Rupees under grass and rocks all over the world,
is something which is familiar to the entire Zelda franchise. Daltus and Gustaf
before him definitely resemble Daphnes, who lingers from the old Hyrule which
is eventually washed away:

Gustaf:

Daltus:

And I won't even mention the cap ... O_O oops.

Notes:
In ALttP a certain NPC reveals that the Hylian age took place long ago in ALttP's
Hyrule, and that many relics are left from that age. The Pegasus Shoes are a relic
given to you by Sahasrahla - they have been passed down by the familes of the Sages.
Well, there is one NPC in The Minish Cap who manufactures the Pegasus Boots.
The shield given to Minish Cap's Link is a prominent part of The Wind Waker as
evidenced by these quotes, and TWW clearly states that the shield is very old
and that hanging it on the wall is a tradition from bygone times.

Four Swords BackStory:
Vaati returns to terrorize Hyrule, kidnapping many maidens, but a young boy seals
him inside the Four Sword. I believe that the symbol of the Sheikah depicts Vaati.
Those kidnapped maidens just might be the very origin of the Sheikah, the shadows
of the Hylians.

Fierce War:
When OoT Link was an infant, his mother fled the fires of war.
This would be about a decade before Ocarina of Time.

OOT - TWWBS - TWW/PH - ST:
There can be no arguments with this.

MM - TPBS:
I don't know whether Majora's Mask or Ganondorf's failed execution
comes first, but it seems to work just fine either way.

TP/LCT:
Link's Crossbow Training stars TP Link after he got his tunic, hence, after TP.

TOC - LOZ/AOL:
Placing LOZ after TP facilitates the questions concerning LOZ Ganon's origin,
and the state of the Triforce. TP Zelda passing the TOW down to LOZ Zelda just
works. TP Ganon returns from the dead, and it could be easily supposed that the
TOC, passed down from OOT Link to TP Link, could be hidden away as told in AOL.
TP's intro and credits music also point to the themes from the original NES Zelda games.
Also, ALttP is on the child timeline, and its geography matches that found in LOZ.

FS/FSA:
A new hero arises when Vaati escapes the Four Sword, and a reincarnated Ganon
takes the mighty trident for himself. Vaati is defeated, and Ganon is sealed away
inside the Four Sword.

Imprisoning War:
FSA Ganon escapes the seal of the Four Sword, and takes the Triforce from the Sacred Realm,
whose location he has recently rediscovered. The Sages search for the lost Master Sword and a hero
to wield it in vain, and wind up sealing Ganon inside the Sacred Realm itself, as told in ALTTP's
manual.

ALTTP/LA:
ALttP takes place in old Hyrule, where the Hylians once thrived. Link sets out to stop Agahnim
from releasing Ganon who is sealed in the Sacred Realm. After destroying Ganon, Link purifies
the Sacred Realm and leaves Hyrule on a quest of his own, only to wind up at Koholint Island in LA.
The Palace of the Four Sword in the GBA version of ALTTP wraps up the Four Swords saga.

OoA/OoS
A new hero (who has never met Zelda) sets out to prevent the revival of trident Ganon.
The Oracle games are designed to occur in either order.[/collapse]
This seems highly probable.

 

[Phantom7]

Of course, I don't believe that TMC or the Dark Interloper event take place before OoT.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Wow cukeman's time line is impressive and I whould belive it if it were not me asking "is the triforce united or separated in this game" other than that his timeline is awesome.

 

[Spire]

Of course, I don't believe that TMC or the Dark Interloper event take place before OoT.

That's pretty silly imo, especially because I've pretty much proved that the Dark Interloper event does occur before OoT. You should take the time to watch the cutscenes on youtube or replay through the game. You'll most likely be convinced that way.

Also Cukeman's evidence for TMC taking place before OoT is highly logical.

 

[theunabletable]

Cukeman's timeline is almost the same as Impossible's, except Impossible has it as LttP-LoZ-OoX, but that's really minor.

It's a respectable timeline, but it kind of ignores some developer quotes, which I dislike (FSA is pre-OoT, for instance from Aonuma after the release of FSA)

You should take the time to watch the cutscenes on youtube or replay through the game. You'll most likely be convinced that way.

Or read the Japanese retranslations

 

[libertyernie]

So OoA and OoT pretty much come last? Seems like a bit of an anticlimactic ending. They should make a game that can be put after those.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

No, OoT is normally near the begining

 

[Phantom7]

That's pretty silly imo, especially because I've pretty much proved that the Dark Interloper event does occur before OoT. You should take the time to watch the cutscenes on youtube or replay through the game. You'll most likely be convinced that way.

No, you don't seem to understand. No one had invaded the Sacred Realm before Ganondorf did in OoT, and Link was warped back before OoT occurred in the CT. Therefore, it's very likely that the DI event took place in Hyrule during MM.

 

[MattV1]

No, you don't seem to understand. No one had invaded the Sacred Realm before Ganondorf did in OoT, and Link was warped back before OoT occurred in the CT. Therefore, it's very likely that the DI event took place in Hyrule during MM.

There's no reason it HAD to be during MM. Easily could have been during one of the many periods there was no Link present. As for Ganondorf being the first to invade the SR, I have to agree on that, but I also feel like the Interloopers never got that far. Ganondorf's whole thing was a relatively covert operation, and it succeeded. It seems to me that the DI were fairly well-known at the time, and the Goddesses became aware of their power, using the Light Spirits to seal said power away.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but TP only says the DI intended to achievement dominance over the Sacred Realm, never that they attacked or succeeded.