Legend of Zelda Timeline Discussion

[Dragoon Fighter]

Japanese: たそがれの中に黄金色に輝くトライフォースがありました。

Romanji: tasogare no naka ni ougoniro ni kagayaku TORAIFO-SU ga arima****a.

Johan's Translation: Among the twilight was the golden shining Triforce.

Zethar-II's Translation: The Triforce was there, casting a golden light in the midst of twilight.

NOA Translation: In the gathering twilight, the Triforce shone from its resting place high above the world.

Yeah so... Twilight Princess was most definitely a retelling of ALttP.

I do not think TP is a retelling of Alttp there is just to many area's of different plot for my tastes . Though, you do give me an idea! What if during Zant's twilight invasion the twilight did not just cover all of hyrule, but covered completely the Dark World/Sacred Realm. If ture sence the Hero of Twilight never entered the Dark World/Sacred Realm it would remain that way untill some one liberated it. This if ture could be prove that TP comes before Alttp. Though the book could also be refering to regular twilight insted of Zant twilight, just saying.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

So I'm really ignorant here about all of this, but I have a question regarding the time line. What is the current believed timeline? <.< I always assumed that each Zelda was it's own tale, not that they were connected like Metroid.

 

[Spire]

So I'm really ignorant here about all of this, but I have a question regarding the time line. What is the current believed timeline? <.< I always assumed that each Zelda was it's own tale, not that they were connected like Metroid.

There are arcs:
LoZ/AoL
ALttP
LA
OoT/MM — TP
WW/PH — ST
OoA/OoS (or because they could be reversed, we just call them OoX)
TMC — FS/FSA (or FS — FSA)

/ = same Link
— = different Links

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

So... it's like they're multiple timelines? The

LoZ/AoL do NOT connect with Alttp, it's their own thing?

If so, then it makes so much more sense. I thought people were trying to say OoT and Windwaker connect and such.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Well, they do. We just don't know how exactly. Like, we know for a fact that we have


____(Adult Timeline) WW/PH---ST
___/
OoT
___\
____(Child Timeline) MM---TP

The problem is connecting the others in. There are multiple (two) timelines, and there are multiple confirmed story arcs. We just don't know how the arcs fall into this mold.

I personally believe that the Zelda games are meant to be like one legend told over various cultures, like we have in the real world. But I also believe that it's meant to be its own continuous story, such that everything (or most things) connect to the other games. That's just me. Most people take one or the other.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Is it bad if you just pretend each game is it's own story? (Bar certain sequels like Zelda/ZeldaII, OoT/MM, etc)

 

[X1-12]

Is it bad if you just pretend each game is it's own story? (Bar certain sequels like Zelda/ZeldaII, OoT/MM, etc)

no, but if you try to argue it to others you may get shot down pretty fast..

EDIT: Spire puts it pretty well:

Q: Is there a timeline?
A: Yes.

Q: Do I have to believe in a timeline?
A: No.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ No you misunderstand. I believe their is a timeline, but do you have to understand the timeline to understand the series? Like can I play the Zelda games, (OoT/MM right now) and get them even if I don't get the timeline?

 

[X1-12]

Like can I play the Zelda games, (OoT/MM right now) and get them even if I don't get the timeline?

yup totally, I'd bet 99% of people (atleast) who play Zelda games don't know the timeline

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

See the thing is, I love the mini timelines. The OoT/MM is great, and TP wherever it fits in. The Toon Link games are great too. I really love OoA/S as well. I love all the minitimeline games, and I have no doubt they all go together, but when I try to figure that out I just get confuzzled and stuff. So <.< I just spent my days appreciating the storylines

Though I'm sure it is one great storyline no doubt, and I bet one day someone figures it out.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Haha, that's probably better for you. In fact, it's easier to understand the games if you aren't looking for miniscule hints of the timeline that probably are completely irrelevant. And so far the only way the fans can appreciate it really is in the segmented eras.

 

[MattV1]

Haha, that's probably better for you. In fact, it's easier to understand the games if you aren't looking for miniscule hints of the timeline that probably are completely irrelevant. And so far the only way the fans can appreciate it really is in the segmented eras.

Which is why I rarely, if ever, look for minuscule hints within games. Probably because they aren't really there, and are really people grasping at straws.

 

[theunabletable]

I thought OoT was the Seal war........

In 1998 it was. TWW pretty much destroyed that idea. If you'd like I could elaborate, but currently I don't feel like ranting about a topic I've made atleast 700+ posts about on various forums...

Yeah so... Twilight Princess was most definitely a retelling of ALttP.

Ehh kinda. The first half is almost eery how well it fits, but the second half of the SW doesn't fit in the slightest haha. I doubt any of the homages to LttP are really meant to be timeline relevant.

I do not think TP is a retelling of Alttp there is just to many area's of different plot for my tastes . Though, you do give me an idea! What if during Zant's twilight invasion the twilight did not just cover all of hyrule, but covered completely the Dark World/Sacred Realm. If ture sence the Hero of Twilight never entered the Dark World/Sacred Realm it would remain that way untill some one liberated it. This if ture could be prove that TP comes before Alttp. Though the book could also be refering to regular twilight insted of Zant twilight, just saying.

It's possible (as in currently I can't think of anything that contradicts it), but is there any evidence that supports this theory?

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I was refering to the Alttp manuel that You yourself posted in it it said "amongst the twilight", though it could be refering to normal twilight it could also refer to zant twilight and possiblly explain why when link enters the Dark world/Sacred realm he turns into a pink bunny. (just like when TP link enters the twilight he becomes a wolf.)

 

[theunabletable]

^Except he transformed into a wolf for completely different reasons than he transformed into the bunny in LttP.

Twilight realm =/= DW/SR

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

^Except he transformed into a wolf for completely different reasons than he transformed into the bunny in LttP.

Twilight realm =/= DW/SR

In the twilight curtian if you are a monster at heart you turn into a monster. If your are good at heart in the twilight curtian you turn into a ghost. In Alttp enter the Sacred Realm/Dark World you turn into a reflection of your soul (as stated in the game). The hero of twilight, though good, protected by the triforce of courage turned into a reflection of his heart just like the monsters. Most people who worked and fought to get into the sacred realm where blinded by greed, anger, hatred, and couruption. Traits normally atrubuted to deamons/monsters so they became a reflection of what they are at heart. Just like how evil souls became monsters while in the twilight curtian. Mabey Alttp Link was semi-protected by the effects of the Sacred World/Dark worlds possible twilight? (Him being the hero and all....)

Oh....you put down "Twilight realm=/= DW/SR" what does that mean? Correct me if I am wrong but the Twilight realm and the Dark World/Sacred Realm are two COMPLETELY different dimensions.

 

[theunabletable]

Oh....you put down "Twilight realm=/= DW/SR" what does that mean? Correct me if I am wrong but the Twilight realm and the Dark World/Sacred Realm are two COMPLETELY different dimensions.

That's exactly what I was saying...

Anyways, I don't realy have much to disagree with the rest of your post except some really nitpicky unimportant stuff...

Point is, TR and the DW/SR are completely different. The "amongst the twilight" quote really doesn't mean anything. It's kind of interesting that they used that wording, but I doubt that they've been planning TP for 19 years >_>

And I doubt that they based the entire story of TP on one quote in a 19 year old manual, when that story doesn't even connect to that manual really in the slightest, other than some interesting wording.

It's interesting, but I doubt it really means anything timeline/storyline-wise...

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I agree with you they are different dimensions I already know that. I just saw the equel sign and thought you meant somthing else. I did not say they were the same just that the Sacred Realm/Dark world was covered in twilight curtian and just not liberated.

Edit: I would persionally find it unbelivible level funny if they were planing TP for 19 years I mean talk about what type of hype a 19 years in planing zelda game would be like.

 

[Spire]

Point is, TR and the DW/SR are completely different. The "amongst the twilight" quote really doesn't mean anything. It's kind of interesting that they used that wording, but I doubt that they've been planning TP for 19 years >_>

And I doubt that they based the entire story of TP on one quote in a 19 year old manual, when that story doesn't even connect to that manual really in the slightest, other than some interesting wording.

It's interesting, but I doubt it really means anything timeline/storyline-wise...

That wasn't my point. Of course they hadn't planned TP for so long. When OoT came out, many people thought it was the Seal War and many people thought it was a rehash of ALttP in 3D. TP had backstory elements that may relate to the Seal War (just as ALttP had) and because its own story is so similar to ALttP, far beyond OoT it is even more so a rehash of ALttP.

Seriously, here's some big similarities:

• Link grows up with an uncle-like figure (ALttP: Uncle; TP: Rusl)
• Link finds Master Sword in a stone pedestal deep within a forest (ALttP: Lost Woods; TP: Sacred Grove)
• Link delves into a parallel dark realm (ALttP: Dark World/Sacred Realm; TP: Twilight Realm)
• Ganondorf, from within the dark realm controls a robed minion to invade Hyrule (ALttP: Agahnim (who was Ganon); TP: Zant)

 

[Ganonsburg]

Interestingly, Ganon and Zant had such a strong connection that Ganon depended on Zant to live, and in a sense you could say that they share the same life. This is just to draw another connection between Ganon/Agahnim and Ganon/Zant.

 

[MattV1]

Interestingly, Ganon and Zant had such a strong connection that Ganon depended on Zant to live, and in a sense you could say that they share the same life. This is just to draw another connection between Ganon/Agahnim and Ganon/Zant.

The thing is Agahnim WAS Ganon, while Zant was just his puppet. It is a very interesting connection however, and I've actually read into it. I guess there's this old Japanesse thing that describes a "contract" of sorts that can be made between deities and mortals. Pretty much, they make the agreement, the mortal obtains massive strength, and the deity will live so long as the mortal survives. The deity can revive the mortal, but the mortal does not need the live for the deity to go on, only the connection between them.

This seems to be what Ganon and Zant had going on. Ganon gives Zant his power, and in return Zant takes over Hyrule. If he were to die, Ganon can revive Zant at a whim, but he does not have to. Indeed, Link does an amazing job of helping Ganon by removing Zant. Ganon can live on, and almost does, even after losing the Triforce of Power. He loses the Power of the Gods, and it seems he may still somehow survive, until Zant - dead mind you - snaps their connection.


Off-topic I suppose, but interesting all the same.

 

[Spire]

Nintendo games all hold so much Japanese lore that when they play the games, they are influenced with that lore in mind, whereas the western localizations *******ize said stories and alienate us enough to where we are driven to overanalyze the games so we can draw our own connections because they aren't provided for us. We really do make more of the games than they provide when it comes to background information. It can be a healthy practice because it stimulates thinking and analysis, but it can also be detrimental because it strains us to make connections between nodes that simply cannot (or at least aren't supposed to) connect.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

The order of the games (in my opinion):
minish cap (link doesn't have his trademark hat until the end of the game)

four swords (starts with Zelda checking on a sealed away vaati, and vaati was sealed at the end of minish cap)

four swords adventures (see above)

original

II

link to the past (power and wisdom in original, courage in II)

Awakening (nightmare's forms are some found in alttp)

OoT

Twilight princess (hero's shade character seems to be hero from OoT)

wind waker (gods flood hyrule, meaning that non WW directly canon games must happen before this)

Phantom Hourglass (states in prolouge that it takes place after WW)

Spirit tracks (states it takes place 100 years after PH)


That's my timeline

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Can someone explain the OoT/MM relations to me (more importantly, MM) I get MM happens right after OoT, but how does Termina fit in? I don't understand how Link just winds up in another world.... i'm so confused...

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Can someone explain the OoT/MM relations to me (more importantly, MM) I get MM happens right after OoT, but how does Termina fit in? I don't understand how Link just winds up in another world.... i'm so confused...

If I remeber correctly the hero of time after saving the future is sent to the past back to his childhood then goes shearching for his lost fariy companion navi. Then while in the lost woods he is ambused by skullkid chases them falls into a tree and goes to the parrel reality of termina.

 

[MattV1]

Might as well point out it's pretty much confirmed that SS goes before Ocarina.


Now the only matter of debate is SS before or after TMC?!?! *dun dun duuuuuunnnnnnn*

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Might as well point out it's pretty much confirmed that SS goes before Ocarina.


Now the only matter of debate is SS before or after TMC?!?! *dun dun duuuuuunnnnnnn*

I am going to say geography will play a role in deteriming that because if it is more similar to OoT then I whould say after if it is more like TMC then I would say that is up for debate. Because the Geography of TMC is so different than OoT the different can be logicly by natural disasters, erossion, and Flooding. I mean a LOT of natural disasters.

 

[Spire]

I am going to say geography will play a role in deteriming that because if it is more similar to OoT then I whould say after if it is more like TMC then I would say that is up for debate. Because the Geography of TMC is so different than OoT the different can be logicly by natural disasters, erossion, and Flooding. I mean a LOT of natural disasters.

So say you were to line up the geography of Hyrule in three different games, created for three very different systems: the N64, the GBA, and the Wii. You really believe that a timeline is based on how geography changes from game to game? Just because TP's Hyrule resembled OoT's Hyrule mostly, but was far larger, does that mean the land literally grew? NO. It was just redesigned.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

However I thought geography was a point on placing something in the timeline, its importance right under.....
triforce
master sword
ganon
I forget the fourth one.

And I know TP land is larger than Oot but just move the casstle on a map and it is largely similar. of course it was redesigned, the overall design however is similar.
Just defending what I said.

 

[Spire]

However I thought geography was a point on placing something in the timeline, its importance right under.....
triforce
master sword
ganon
I forget the fourth one.

And I know TP land is larger than Oot but just move the casstle on a map and it is largely similar. of course it was redesigned, the overall design however is similar.
Just defending what I said.

Geography as in what land the game is based in, not how the land looks. We've had Hyrule, New Hyrule, The Great Sea (flooded Hyrule), Termina, Holodrum, Labrynna, and Koholint Island.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

>< I still wanna know how Link gets to Termina... lol. It looks like an Acid Trip. Also since the MM Skullkid was in hyrule at first..would the mask itself be a part of hyrule or termina.. ugh. A good sequel, I'm loving the game, but confusing as ****.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Though a portal I presume. Where the mask comes form is debateble, but most people say termina.

 

[MattV1]

Somebody mentioned natural disasters?


I've had a theory for some time now that due-north in TMC is not due-north, similar to how I beleive ALttP's "north" is more northeast, with the Master Sword being north (similar to how many old RTS show "northeast" as being due-north). Mount Crenel was a simple mountain, that eventually blew it's top and destroyed Hyrule Town and Castle. It was renamed Death Mountain in remembrance of the tragedy, and due to the damage done to the land, the Hyruleans moved west a bit (south on TMC's map), which puts Death Mountain in it's current place, removes the Veil Falls, gives us a new location for Lake Hylia, and accounts for the missing Castor Swamp and Wilds.

 

[Ganonsburg]

As for which comes first, SS or TMC, I would think that it's SS. Assuming that Spire is right and there is no Hyrule to begin with in SS, then TMC has to come after because there is a Hyrule in that one.

Interestingly, there are moblins in SS (so far....maybe they'll be cut later like a ton of cool stuff in TP was cut before TP was released). Does that mean that moblins don't need Ganon to exist? Or does it mean that Ganon is in this game (or maybe existed before the game happened?)

 

[MattV1]

As for which comes first, SS or TMC, I would think that it's SS. Assuming that Spire is right and there is no Hyrule to begin with in SS, then TMC has to come after because there is a Hyrule in that one.

Interestingly, there are moblins in SS (so far....maybe they'll be cut later like a ton of cool stuff in TP was cut before TP was released). Does that mean that moblins don't need Ganon to exist? Or does it mean that Ganon is in this game (or maybe existed before the game happened?)

Bokoblins aren't Moblins. They're close, both "goblin-like" creatures (which the suffix "-blin applies to in Zelda universe), but they are different creatures. In Zelda the "Boko" part probably means wood of forest (Boko Babas), so you pretty much have "Forest-Goblins", the term could also come from their frequent use to Boko Sticks in TWW.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Bokoblins aren't Moblins. They're close, both "goblin-like" creatures (which the suffix "-blin applies to in Zelda universe), but they are different creatures. In Zelda the "Boko" part probably means wood of forest (Boko Babas), so you pretty much have "Forest-Goblins", the term could also come from their frequent use to Boko Sticks in TWW.

Ah, okay. I didn't realize the ones in SS were Bokoblins; I had only heard people refer to them as Moblins thus far. Thanks.

 

[MattV1]

Ah, okay. I didn't realize the ones in SS were Bokoblins; I had only heard people refer to them as Moblins thus far. Thanks.

I assumed they were Moblins at first too, similar to how people thought the Octoroks were Deku Scrubs. Bill translated what Miyamoto said to "Bokoblins" and "Octoroks", and the latter were clearly them and not Scrubs. I suppose we're still supposed to assume that Moblins are much bigger than Bokoblins, even though the Bokos in SS look more pig-like than in the past? *shrug* It's hard to doubt the man himself...

 

[Phantom7]

I think the SS Bokoblins evolved into the OoT Moblins. They're way too similar in appearance.

 

[RMZ]

Hey quick statement/question...

Am I wrong to thing the cel shading is a way to state which timeline the game belongs to or am I just reading to much in the styles..?

 

[황미영]

As for which comes first, SS or TMC, I would think that it's SS. Assuming that Spire is right and there is no Hyrule to begin with in SS, then TMC has to come after because there is a Hyrule in that one.

Interestingly, there are moblins in SS (so far....maybe they'll be cut later like a ton of cool stuff in TP was cut before TP was released). Does that mean that moblins don't need Ganon to exist? Or does it mean that Ganon is in this game (or maybe existed before the game happened?)

Aren't there moblins in AoL? And it takes place after Ganon dies... >w>;

Also, I just read the timeline with the generation stuff. And boy did Zelda I miss out on a lot.