Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

No his .jpg case is WEAK and fabricated. He's gone beyond making this a probe and is now basing all of his reads on that one weak case; you have mischaracterized it as just a probe. Back when it was just a probe I had no problem with it.

Da hell are you even talking about?

His case on me concerning Grey is BAD. He is just using it as an excuse to mud sling and has completely refused to listen to the reason for my reads. I think he is doing it on purpose which is why I am voting him.

No it's not....? Your case on why DeGrey is town is BAD. Your reasons are terrible as well. But you are the exact same as Ranmaru in this sense if you are saying that. You completely refuse to listen to his reasons for his reads, because you are that confident in your own.

You are being hypocritical.

I don't think he is sincere in his reasoning and that's the most important thing.

 

[Reyth]

So you don't know how to read Grey either?? So you think when Grey says "I prefer to read Swiss as town as a resource" you agree with Ran and say "It's not even scum hunting it's anti-town!"; do you realize how shallow this is??

 

[Reyth]

KK has no been upgraded to Bad from Good. Congratulations!

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Can you actually read and not mis-contort things? Please.

Again I say something about A and you wind up at freaking Q.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

KK has no been upgraded to Bad from Good. Congratulations!

Thank you for proving my point.

See this is the thing with Reyth, when someone disagrees with him, they become scum to his eyes. I mean this is just hilarious in itself because I just said this.

 

[Reyth]

I gave you a concrete point about Grey where Ran totally missed the boat. Based on what you've said, you agree with him, right?

 

[Reyth]

Deal with the details here.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

I gave you a concrete point about Grey where Ran totally missed the boat.

No you didn't.

Based on what you've said, you agree with him, right?

If it's picking sides, then Ran is def the side I'm picking.

And what do you mean with "deal with the details"?

 

[Reyth]

So you don't know how to read Grey either?? So you think when Grey says "I prefer to read Swiss as town as a resource" you agree with Ran and say "It's not even scum hunting it's anti-town!"; do you realize how shallow this is??

Yes I did. Now deal with the details. You don't just get to agree with Ran without dealing with the specifics here.

 

[T-block]

**** this game **** this game **** this game

post 600 now. i don't think i can do this in one sitting lol

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Trust me on it, Zen is already putting enough fake effort here to be town.

What does this mean?

6. Nabe, expand on this slip from Nich. #631

b) Look, I quite clearly said the vote was for pressure. If I just left it on you (without later stating more info on it changing to a "real" vote) and you got lynched, that would be a major red flag for anyone with a brain.

Nick talking to T-block. The bolded implies a knowledge of T-block's alignment, a slip straight from brain to page. A townie might've said "and you got lynched and flipped town" while Nick speaks from a Town-block perspective.

7. I didn’t assume how he came to KK scum, I agreed that he was also slightly suspicious. Although I mentioned earlier it was based on connections, and based on their self play I am liking them. #636

Nich asked Swiss why he had the reads he did on Gray and KK, and you said "Why exactly do those two reads baffle you?" which is the equivalent of "I don't understand why you would ask that," which is the equivalent of "Swiss' reasoning is obvious." Y/N?

9. I wasn’t whiteknighting Reyth. I was just peeved that he’d come in to direct lynches when he hasn’t even pushed his own. Reyth can defend himself. #643

561 is clearly angry and comes in response to a post directed at Reyth. You tear up Ryker and say "Reyth's trying, you're not." Do you understand why someone might think it's white-knighting, even if you say otherwise?

10. Nabe, not liking your Nich vote bro. #654

Okay. Why?
You know how people get on J's case when he says something is "odd"? I asked you to expand earlier, and now I'm asking again.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

I do know how to read DeGray, especially with how scummy he has been. I also do agree with Ranmaru that it isn't scum-hunting and is anti-town because he is just going with Swiss to go with Swiss.

I do agree with you though, the point you are trying to present is shallow.

 

[Reyth]

Well you and Ran both have missed Grey's point which is EXACTLY my point. Grey clearly is saying that Swiss is difficult to read and he will not be able to get a grasp of his alignment until he has posted his reads and made some votes. But you guys are just "OH WOW SCUMMIE!" without reading into what he really meant.

I have a whole handful of such points where Ran is like "Whoops! I missed that one too".

As it is Grey, needs to produce something valuable or I will join in his lynch anyway.

 

[Reyth]

Ya right. I'm the one that is being shallow here.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

I didn't even say "Oh wow scummie!" to that. I said it was anti-town.

.....I really think you have a reading problem. >.>

And an over-arrogance problem too. <.<

 

[Reyth]

Its not even anti-town! Its pro-town! He is sorting Swiss into a category where he will read him based on his reads and votes. Its the proper thing to do.

If you look at the overall profile of Grey's early activity you see a player that is attempting to clarify his reads in a rapid fire manner -- someone that is truly scum hunting.

The current problem with Grey is that he hasn't come up with anything useful except....

Oh my. A scum read on you.

Well I would like to hear more and I will be anxiously awaiting that.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Since you're here Nabe, give a response to my case on you, I made the summary like you requested.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

DeGrey has a lot of excuses for not voting that really don't add up. The first one he says that he doesn't want to vote without speaking to Raziek first, but in the second one he seems perfectly willing to put his vote on KK if he gets halfway to a lynch, and I don't think he discussed that with Raziek before he posted. Finally in the last one he says he's given up on waiting to get together with his other head so he has no reason not to be acting on his own scum reads and getting into the discussions here instead of hanging in the background.

But doesn't this series of events look to you like it could be a logical progression of thought? First one he says no vote, second one he throws out an offer re: KK, third one he admits he's done waiting. It seems to me that you're coming at this with the impression that Ryker is scummy, and seeing his actions under that light, when in reality it's null.

What's actually bothersome in conjunction is that he hasn't posted since, which some people have talked about, which does potentially point to "active lurking". But then again, didn't he also called V/LA? Which would make all of this null. If he avoids the thread from here-on or posts without content then I'd support a lynch, having seen inactive Rykerscum in KSSU.

 

[Reyth]

^^^ Thumbs up!

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

If you look at the overall profile of Grey's early activity you see a player that is attempting to clarify his reads in a rapid fire manner -- someone that is truly scum hunting.

But this just isn't true....o_o"

 

[Nicholas1024]

As a side note, Reyth vs Ran/Kawaii strikes me as strikes me as me vs T-block v2, but with even less actual scumslips.

Hey Reyth, someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them scummy. This is seriously looking to me like Reyth leans a bit more to Degrey-town because he's seen town-play like that in the past, while Ran/Kawaii disagree. And from there on it's basically

"You're wrong!"
"No YOU'RE WRONG!"
"NO I AM NOT YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG AND SCUMMY!"

etc.

@Everyone involved in that bit but particularly Reyth
Seriously, dig up some quotes. You aren't going to get anywhere just talking, so dig up the quotes, point to the parts you agree with and think are actual scumhunting. Else this is just going to be a useless distraction for town.

 

[Reyth]

Read my posts regarding the subject because it certainly is.

In fact, I think his early reads have been spot on. I eagerly await his return.

 

[Reyth]

@Nich: I'm the one that has been quoting. Its these two that just miss the point and refuse to look beneath the surface with Grey.

 

[Nicholas1024]

As a side note, this game is the most ridiculously active that I've ever seen. In my first game, post #1024 was posted in the last day (IIRC), in this one we're only a few RL days into D1!

@T-block, Raziek
I don't expect anybody to get through this in one sitting, go ahead and catch up piece by piece so we know you're trying to contribute please.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ran re: 900 to 920, you're a little ridiculous. Reyth's 904 is a compact ISO on Gray that's clear enough and he offered to illustrate any points you found unclear. Was 910 warranted?

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

@T-block, Raziek
I don't expect anybody to get through this in one sitting, go ahead and catch up piece by piece so we know you're trying to contribute please.

^thiiiiis x100.

I think I am going to just move past this inane debate with Reyth. Moving on.

I'm debating on moving to the DeGray wagon because I can somewhat like VG's last posts. Slot buggs the hell out of me still but meh.

Don't know what to think of SK. Leaning more townish as of late.

 

[Reyth]

I like the the tone and content of KK's last post here.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Hm. After taking another look regarding Grey, I think he's displayed more ego-tells and idiot-tells then scum-tells. I honestly can't see any reason for him to act like that regardless of alignment. I think part of the problem is that you (Reyth) are giving the implication you think he's town (which there is definitely NOT justification for) when in reality he's null leaning scum on your scumlist.

I think the thing both sides should look at is "What reason is there for town to behave like this? How about for scum to behave like this?" At the moment I can't see much reason for either alignment, so I'll put him at leaning scum for the moment (As some of the stuff like his interactions with me were REALLY odd), and wait for the hydra to catch up and comment on current events.

 

[Reyth]

I pretty much can agree with you on that Nich.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

I extremely like that post by you Nichy boy

 

[Reyth]

Its just I see all that bluster as a clever way to scum hunt and I've seen other players use it.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

EBWOP: Ninja makes J a sad man

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Another one?! God dammit.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@video
I feel like I don't have a good grasp of your scumreads. Could you please list your reads and reasonings for them? (And of course thoughts on the Nabe case are always appreciated.)

 

[T-block]

I think you guys should slow down lol

I'm on post 670 now.

First thought: I'd like to ask DeGrey (specifically the Ryker head) what he thinks of Reyth right now, and why.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

If anyone wants quotes and full details for my case on name, it's in my two walls at 702 and 785.

We're off to a terrific start.

Looking over Nabe's early game play, a lot of people had him as town, but for what? His asking questions style. Now I will admit that many of the questions he asked were good, and pointed out a flaw in someone else's logic at times. However, when I read his posts with the intention of trying to get his thought process... I couldn't. The ONLY time he gives reads are when they're expected from him (and usually outright asked by another person), and even then he won't give reasons for said reads. It's unusual for him to even make a normal statement.

Okay. This sounds enough like my M.O., you haven't said anything that's obviously untrue.

I can understand why you'd have disdain for people having what you think are shallow town reads on me. I question a town read on me any time it's less than reasoned, or any time a read comes without being asked for.

I don't know why you find my thought process hard to grasp. I've put myself on the page. I'm not holding my reads or reasoning. If I were, I don't know why that would bother you. I don't know what you mean about making a "normal statement".

Because of this pattern, no one post of his is actually scummy on it's own. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, I do plenty of that myself. However, when you connect the dots, you realize that just about every move he makes is safe. It's hard to argue with a question, and although possible, people also don't usually argue with reads without knowing the reasoning behind them. By never bringing up his scumpicks, Nabe essentially has unknown reads on 70% of the game at any given time. This means that if someone asks him "What do you think of X", Nabe can usually pick his answer to whatever would be safest. (Look, I understand this is a bit difficult to translate, it's something you more or less need to see for yourself. So please, read through 702 or go through his posts yourself, trying to look at Nabe's thought process.) This means that regardless of what happens, even if someone goes back and does a reread, it's extremely unlikely they'll latch onto him UNLESS they're looking for that pattern.

You posit that I play safe, by asking questions and not mentioning my scumreads. My motive in asking questions isn't to be safe, it's to get answers to questions. Naturally that's not a provable thing, but I'm sure my motive is made plain by my posts. As for me having unknown reads, that's not the case. I'm certain I've voiced my reads on every player in the game.

Now to address the elephant in the room and the one thing that doesn't fit that pattern, his case on me. My argument regarding this is simple, it was necessary because of activity reasons.

I'll counter with the argument that it came about naturally based on my catch-up after being absent for a couple days.

Let's take a look at the situation before the case. Nabe's been inactive for a few days. Consider what would happen if he just went back to asking random questions and the occasional stance (when asked). He'd get blasted for having no new content, right? So, to avoid suspicion, he had to get some kind of new content for everyone, and the easiest way to do that was to make a case.

I can see why you'd think a scumNabe would do what you describe. I wouldn't, I'd just lurk Thanks for the credit. It's beside the point though.

What sparked your scumread on me? What led you to evaluate this situation from the standpoint that I'm scum rather than town? I don't understand how this came about, rather than a balanced evaluation of the facts, weighing town and scum motivation.

As town, I was inactive for a couple days. I read up, I saw the scumslip. This led me to vote for you. Is any part of that explanation invalid or obviously untrue? If not, then it doesn't make sense that you'd think me scum at all.

Continuing.

Now keep in mind, who's easily been the most-attacked target in this game? Me. I've been attacked by many different people, and though a lot of the attacks contained dumb points, in the end there WERE several decent points left standing after my defense, and one of those was only first raised after Nabe fell behind activity-wise. So, Nabe just says Reyth's case was excellent, particularly that one point (the "slip" he's been pushing all this time), and bam. Suddenly he's back in people's brownie townie categories, despite not actually doing anything new (even the "case" he pushed is completely unoriginal!), and it has the bonus of raising a bit more pressure on a townie. So despite appearances, this was actually a pretty safe move.

Again, you haven't evaluated the possibility of townNabe from the perspective I've offered. You've assumed I'm scum and worked from that perspective.

Reyth's post gave me a fresh look with no meta, a balance to check my reads on. I realized I was giving you meta credit for being that-guy-who-tunnels and letting that dissuade me from voting you. Reyth pointed out the slip as well. I followed with a vote.

I'm not going to argue about allegations of playing safe. I'm just playing the game, not hiding or posturing or otherwise.

I'll again ask you for any specific quotes or questions or examples you wanted a read and response to, or anything of the like.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Still don't understand how Nabe is so obvtown to people. Would lynch him. I do agree with my other half that Nich's ISO on him is slightly reaching however. I could do an ISO on just about anyone and paint them as scummy. Irregardless, I don't like Nabe's reactive question asking style play.

I'd buy this from the Vand half, but J can read me better than this and has seen lots of town games where I've played exactly the same. I'm not going to argue obvtown, I'm not, but not liking me asking questions is a null, not scummy.

Who is your lynch atm?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm going to say this once and for all. You don't know how to read Gray. You keep looking at what he has said at face value and only looking at the surface of things without understanding the deeper meaning of what he has said. This is bad enough. But then you try to ascribe scummy motives to me because I DO know how to read him.

Maybe this will motivate you to try and read my posts because I clearly explained to you the right way to read Grey:

Unvote, Vote Ran

I needed a better place for my vote anyway and now I've found it.

Why?

I found this funny because you basically said "I'm okay with over half the player list dying." .-.

Nich, SK, July, VG, Zen, PLSD, KK.

Can you explain your VG suspicion since I can't seem to recall you being apart of that but apparantly you are in a voting block with him...?

I'm very okay with half the player list dying. It's D1 and I'm not a daycop. Any of those is good. Of them, I support Nich and SK and I'd throw my vote on the rest to make deadline.

People said VG was sheeping, which reminds me of Pulp when X1 was accused of the same. Other than that I still have nothing for or against VG, that simply catches my eye. His lynch would be okay in that it gets rid of a semi-inactive slot that's a blind spot for me, and as always there's analysis to be had of the voters.

What do you mean about a voting block with VG?

 

[Reyth]

@Nabe: It was parked on a lurker which is a lame place to be voting really.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Well you and Ran both have missed Grey's point which is EXACTLY my point. Grey clearly is saying that Swiss is difficult to read and he will not be able to get a grasp of his alignment until he has posted his reads and made some votes. But you guys are just "OH WOW SCUMMIE!" without reading into what he really meant.

Supported by Gray saying he's comfortable in the position he's in.

Since you're here Nabe, give a response to my case on you, I made the summary like you requested.

oh hi you're impatient

@Nabe: It was parked on a lurker which is a lame place to be voting really.

Which lurker?