Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[Reyth]

Ran's reads are so off all of a sudden. He is being downgraded to Good from Town. Maybe when one of his "scum" flips pop town he will re-adjust but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is something wrong with him (alignment wise).

 

[Nicholas1024]

If anyone wants quotes and full details for my case on name, it's in my two walls at 702 and 785.

Anyway, there's a reason the case is so long and drawn out (PBPA style), and that's because it actually can't be done any other way. The root of my case against Nabe can be summarized in two phrases. Safe actions, and fake contributing.

Looking over Nabe's early game play, a lot of people had him as town, but for what? His asking questions style. Now I will admit that many of the questions he asked were good, and pointed out a flaw in someone else's logic at times. However, when I read his posts with the intention of trying to get his thought process... I couldn't. The ONLY time he gives reads are when they're expected from him (and usually outright asked by another person), and even then he won't give reasons for said reads. It's unusual for him to even make a normal statement.

Because of this pattern, no one post of his is actually scummy on it's own. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, I do plenty of that myself. However, when you connect the dots, you realize that just about every move he makes is safe. It's hard to argue with a question, and although possible, people also don't usually argue with reads without knowing the reasoning behind them. By never bringing up his scumpicks, Nabe essentially has unknown reads on 70% of the game at any given time. This means that if someone asks him "What do you think of X", Nabe can usually pick his answer to whatever would be safest. (Look, I understand this is a bit difficult to translate, it's something you more or less need to see for yourself. So please, read through 702 or go through his posts yourself, trying to look at Nabe's thought process.) This means that regardless of what happens, even if someone goes back and does a reread, it's extremely unlikely they'll latch onto him UNLESS they're looking for that pattern.

Now to address the elephant in the room and the one thing that doesn't fit that pattern, his case on me. My argument regarding this is simple, it was necessary because of activity reasons.

Let's take a look at the situation before the case. Nabe's been inactive for a few days. Consider what would happen if he just went back to asking random questions and the occasional stance (when asked). He'd get blasted for having no new content, right? So, to avoid suspicion, he had to get some kind of new content for everyone, and the easiest way to do that was to make a case.

Now keep in mind, who's easily been the most-attacked target in this game? Me. I've been attacked by many different people, and though a lot of the attacks contained dumb points, in the end there WERE several decent points left standing after my defense, and one of those was only first raised after Nabe fell behind activity-wise. So, Nabe just says Reyth's case was excellent, particularly that one point (the "slip" he's been pushing all this time), and bam. Suddenly he's back in people's brownie townie categories, despite not actually doing anything new (even the "case" he pushed is completely unoriginal!), and it has the bonus of raising a bit more pressure on a townie. So despite appearances, this was actually a pretty safe move.

This post alone isn't meant to prove anything (and in fact can't prove anything without being a PBPA due to the nature of the scumtell), it just lays out Nabe-scum's general strategy. The full details and proof is (again) in #702 and #785. Please just take a look at those two posts (or if you don't trust me, take a look at Nabe's posts yourselves, focusing on the stances and content that HE has actually provided.)

I'd like people to give their thoughts on this, I don't want this case to go ignored.

If you disagree with the case, I'd like some detailed reasoning on WHY exactly Nabe is town.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran's reads are so off all of a sudden. He is being downgraded to Good from Town. Maybe when one of his "scum" flips pop town he will re-adjust but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is something wrong with him (alignment wise).

They aren't, but I see you do this once I mention that I don't like your play. Your reads are the ones that are off. I still can't believe how you can judge JPG as town, eww. Also stating Grey's early play as Pro-town, and then mentioning you will join just because he's active lurking, and not for any other reasons?

Now, will you tell us all why you actually voted Nich?

Now what do you think is wrong with my alignment?

 

[Reyth]

I dsiagree with every one of your reads at this moment. I disagree with your entire philosophy on this game at the the moment. With you, its like I was married in bliss and all of a sudden I wake up and see its the Wicked Witch of the East and I realize I've made a HUGE mistake.

Next floor for Ran: [n]Bad[/b] coming up soon as he continues to "progress".

 

[ranmaru]

I disagree with your JPG read, and your Gray 'pro-town' reasons. Those are pretty obvious. You aren't looking at JPG's intent, you are just looking to see if he's 'scumhunting' which you even said, that he has been sheepy and fence sitty. Not pro-town in anyway.

Again, why did you vote Nich?

 

[ranmaru]

By the way Reyth, what do you think of SK's recent actions?

 

[Reyth]

I think SK is fine thank you. I can't help it that you are unable to understand how to read Gray but the fact you keep trying to misrep my read on him is not helping you.

 

[ranmaru]

**** gate way gah

 

[ranmaru]

STUPID CRASH BOARDS I HATE UUUU.

Anyways

Please describe how SK is fine to you, his recent play.

I am not misrepping, you know your reasons for Gray = protown are bad. You are even using wifom to determine that.

 

[ranmaru]

Also tell me your read on PLSD

 

[ranmaru]

Kk fair enough, I do remember you saying once before that you leave reading Ryker to others.

I didn't remember that post specifically, so I went back and looked it up:



At the time I remember still being frustrated that he only addressed Swiss and his concerns, and that it wasn't surprising that he also left this note to Kuz/Laundry because I know he's hydra'd with them before. Honestly I was confused as to why he liked his position in this game at this point. Usually when Ryker expresses satisfaction in a game, at least when I've played with him, it's because he thinks he has found scum and he takes a lot of pride in his scumhunting skills. Here he had yet to do any scumhunting, the most notable thing he had done was "help" Nich and start that whole situation.

In reference to what you've quoted from me above, this quote would mean that what he has done since then by staying in the shadows has been very deliberate to maintain that position that he was comfortable with. It means that he's also comfortable with not scumhunting this game which definitely fits his play so far.




Yes, I did see Nich's 155 and Reyth's take on it in his catch-up post, and T-Block and I had a discussion about this because it is where I questioned my read on Nich as just bad town and considered the possibility that he is scum. That post is still scummy and I still think it is a legit point, but taking everything into account, I still don't think that the scum motivation is there but there were attempts to scumhunt, and I'm giving that precedence when it comes to my read on him.

Also while I was looking up quotes I found these. The first being DeGrey's reasoning for not voting Vanderzant (KK):








DeGrey has a lot of excuses for not voting that really don't add up. The first one he says that he doesn't want to vote without speaking to Raziek first, but in the second one he seems perfectly willing to put his vote on KK if he gets halfway to a lynch, and I don't think he discussed that with Raziek before he posted. Finally in the last one he says he's given up on waiting to get together with his other head so he has no reason not to be acting on his own scum reads and getting into the discussions here instead of hanging in the background.

Also give thoughts on this plz.

 

[ranmaru]

Btw Nich, I think it's best for nabe to respond to that first, then we give thoughts.

 

[videogames.jpg]

Looks like it'll just be me until around Thursday or so. X1 got WASTED apparently and is now going somewhere that might not have wifi until Thursday ;_;

will do more later today

 

[ranmaru]

@Nich, Jpg: What is your recent read on Reyth, Tblock, and Nabe?

 

[ranmaru]

Oh and SK too

 

[ranmaru]

And Jpg leaves.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright Ran, fair enough.

T-block I need to see more from. He tunneled me at the start and hasn't done much since then. Null for the moment though.

Reyth is still townie in my book, but I don't particularly like his recent exchange with you. He seems to basically be going "No he's scum!" without answering why.

And you know what I think of Nabe.

 

[SoupaKatamari]

And wii arrive

Nabe needs looking into, which will be addressed tonight when we summon him for an extra karaoke session.

 

[ranmaru]

Ah ok thank you.

Yes Tblock has done doo doo, need more from him.

Reyth is still null to me. He tends to exaggerate regardless of alignment, so we have to see why he is exactly doing that. What do you think of his reasons for Degrey being pro-town?

Nich, what did you think of Reyth's temporary vote on you? Were you satisfied with the reason?

Oh Right yeah, thx.

 

[ranmaru]

Sk who are your scumpicks again? I want discussion from you but I can't particularly remember anything from you I'd want you to clarify.

 

[ranmaru]

For you Nabe. I didn't quote anything though. Numbers for you all!

1. SK says Kuz Is town then says it was really null? #601
2. SK posts more content. #623
3. SK: Why Tblock? Already see DGrey scumminess. #623
4. So, what do you care of who I ask PL, Tblock? #630
5. He obv hasn’t, nabe. *regarding Zen reading #631
6. Nabe, expand on this slip from Nich. #631
7. I didn’t assume how he came to KK scum, I agreed that he was also slightly suspicious. Although I mentioned earlier it was based on connections, and based on their self play I am liking them. #636
8. Still the same, I did like their new stances. Didn’t like the Kuz Town thing gambit though. Read is still the same. (Regarding recent thoughts on SK) #643
9. I wasn’t whiteknighting Reyth. I was just peeved that he’d come in to direct lynches when he hasn’t even pushed his own. Reyth can defend himself. #643
10. Nabe, not liking your Nich vote bro. #654
11. Reyth, wtf are you doing? Why are you voting Nich? #719
12. Reyth, I’m not tunneling. And I’m fine on lynching Jpg TODAy. #734
13. Lmao at Zen being able to read me well. Tell me where you have done that correctly.

I totally forgot about this. I want you to respond to anything addressed to you, SK. (and anyone else)

 

[ranmaru]

Nich, you have a scum read on Grey right? Can you give thoughts on #971?

 

[ranmaru]

Y it take so long for SK to respond

 

[SoupaKatamari]

because I'm at work

 

[Reyth]

STUPID CRASH BOARDS I HATE UUUU.

Anyways

Please describe how SK is fine to you, his recent play.

I am not misrepping, you know your reasons for Gray = protown are bad. You are even using wifom to determine that.

I'm going to say this once and for all. You don't know how to read Gray. You keep looking at what he has said at face value and only looking at the surface of things without understanding the deeper meaning of what he has said. This is bad enough. But then you try to ascribe scummy motives to me because I DO know how to read him.

Maybe this will motivate you to try and read my posts because I clearly explained to you the right way to read Grey:

Unvote, Vote Ran

I needed a better place for my vote anyway and now I've found it.

 

[T-block]

****ing Reyth beating me to stuff. I've got different reasons for suspecting Ran though.

Let me say now that I think a lot of what Ran is posting is not genuine... some of it seems faked to look like that proactive town. I will compile stuff on my re-read.

 

[Reyth]

I don't like his .jpg push at all. Now he is starting to base his whole game off of that one read and it sucks anyway.

 

[Reyth]

He's taken what was a decent probe and made it the center of the universe. I'm not liking it.

 

[T-block]

You've played with Ranmaru before, right? Could this just be bad town play coming from him?

 

[Reyth]

Ya I've played and spoken with Ranmaru. He is a clever player. I don't think it will be easy to read him. I will go with Grey's philosophy: Read the clever player by examining his personal reads and his votes.

Basically, his .jpg case is contrived and weak. I mean 'cmon, .jpg was opportunistic in reference to July?? Who buys that?? Sounds like a convenient way to explain his vote and that is then proven by how that read has blossomoed into the be all and end all for his game reads.

Secondly, his push on me for crappy reasoning regarding Grey; it stinks. It looks to me like he is looking for an excuse to sling mud at me.

That is just off the top of my head. When I take a magnifying glass to his posts I will find a few other things as well.

 

[Reyth]

Looking over his posts, that's really all I have. His bad push on .jpg and his bad push on me. I can definitely see scum motivation there. I will also say that I DO see his continued push on SK as scummy too.

 

[Reyth]

I'm interested in what you have found though T-Block. I'll certainly weigh in on anything you have.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Just finished reading up the latest 4-5 pages. (seriously why Ran/Reyth?) I'd like to comment on the situation. Ran vs. Reyth is silly and in this argument I actually am going to agree and side with Ranmaru in this case.

I've been contemplating my dislike for Reyth for a while now and it's mainly because I feel his reads feel completely shallow. He is voting Ranmaru atm, for what it seems, because Ran doesn't agree with Reyth's personal reads. He also when asked to explain said reads, they are weak as hell.

Overall though, I have to agree with the other side on this, he says some weird things but I don't see the scummy intent behind it. More or less I just find myself asking "How in the world.....why in the....what?" with a lot of Reyth's posts.

Especially WTF at the Nabe/Reyth/VG.jpg/TB voting block. Da hell is that?

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Nichy, it seems I will have to wait to get to you on the Nabe thingy because Vandy's away enjoying his B-day and it seems he has a different opinion then me atm.

Now to other things! :D

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

I'd support SK and possibly July, I'd join in on lynches of July, VG, Zen and PTSD obviously, maybe your slot if Swiss ever posts again and has decent enough reasoning.

I found this funny because you basically said "I'm okay with over half the player list dying." .-.

Nich, SK, July, VG, Zen, PLSD, KK.

Can you explain your VG suspicion since I can't seem to recall you being apart of that but apparantly you are in a voting block with him...?

 

[Reyth]

I think his case on .jpg was extremely weak with the July thing. I gave him a pass because I considered it a scum hunting probe. As far as I can tell, he sheeped the other part about .jpg being "unoriginal" which I don't agree with anyway. Now he's looking at the whole game through the lens of his weak .jpg case.

Ya, KK you are right, I disagree with his reads. Frankly, I don't have anything else to go on. His case on me concerning Grey is really bad too and I don't like how he has continued to pressure SK.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

Oh my....

Listen Reyth, just because someone disagrees with you, how is that scummy? You are sounding like TB and his reads list atm. "He doesn't agree with me.....scum!" Also it seems that's the way your town reads are forming up as well. If someone likes you or agrees with you, they are town.

I dislike your Ran push because it's simply flippant and weak. What is wrong with Ran pushing one person he thinks is scum and trying to get attention to that person? He can't get his lynch unless he attracts attention to it because he only has one vote.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ran, quit posting in black.
Daily catch-up time.

 

[Reyth]

No his .jpg case is WEAK and fabricated. He's gone beyond making this a probe and is now basing all of his reads on that one weak case; you have mischaracterized it as just a probe. Back when it was just a probe I had no problem with it.

His case on me concerning Grey is BAD. He is just using it as an excuse to mud sling and has completely refused to listen to the reason for my reads. I think he is doing it on purpose which is why I am voting him.

I don't think he is sincere in his reasoning and that's the most important thing.

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

KK, hold me and katerpies hand.

Also, I agree to disagree on vg.jpg, this is classic asdioh and most of the content generated by him is either small fluff or consistent scumhunting, although a vote would be sex, asdioh.

Possibly hold hands on the DeGray lynch. Also your reasoning for VGTown is a flimsy meta reasoning....*sigh* you never learn do yo-....

Also, are my meta reads ever wrong? :3

Srs question, they're usually dead set right, but that comes with how much experience I have with the player.

*smh*