Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

[Reyth]

@Ran: Don't like video all that much at the moment but I'm still waiting for my other head to give a woman's touch to our scum reads. I assume she is are sleeping now though, so this will likely come tomorrow

@Reyth: My view on the marSOUPial may seem a bit odd to you, though I'm very confident that the Kat half hasn't posted yet (and that it's just been Soup posting on behalf of Kat). I've hydra'd with Kat for 5 or so games, and know him fairly well, so I'm interested in hearing directly from this head before I affirm a solid read. I discredited Nabe because I don't like his style this game (but this apparently is how he plays), and as you've noticed he doesn't give many scum reads.

Ya actually the funny thing is your read actually helped balance me out. My gut was screaming so loud "TOWN" and then upon reading my analysis, I just couldn't understand why; we will need to watch carefully.

 

[Xivii]

Is Reyth a hydra?

 

[T-block]

Reyth, can you please clarify why you didn't like Nich's 142? People are annoyed at me for answering for you lol. 155 as well.

 

[ranmaru]

Reyth, I am quite satisfied with your catch up. Only read I disagree with is JPG. (Swiss too, but if he doesn't do anything my read would just plummit, just think of him like Elli from MS)

I hope you keep an eye on JPG and don't let him side line. K?

@Zen: No, he isn't.

 

[July]

Now for the reads:

Grey -- I have to agree with agree with Grey about Nich. He is obviously an experienced player and from the old school (my case on Nich is not a policy lynch however and I am voting him because I genuinely think he is scum). He asked me if I was a gut or analysis based player: I am both but I place emphasis on analysis above gut. I am learning to listen to my gut more, but its not easy. You will not find Grey scum hunting in a traditional way; he is very deeply imbedded in mafia psychology. I have to agree with him on reading Swiss in that if you have an experienced player, you CANNOT read them but through their personal reads and votes because they do not scum tell or scum slip. I will be reading Grey the same way here. Right now, Ranmaru is right -- Grey needs to vote. From what I can gather his top scum reads are Ran, Nich and PLSD. There has been little reasoning especially on Ran and PLSD. I would really like to see his top 3-4 scum suspects with reasoning before I can feel comfortable with him. Null

You seem to agree with Grey about his stance on Nich. Do you think Grey sees Nich as scum, and do you think his #267 where he says he wants to help Nich is genuine?

July -- On the surface, my initial read of July was pro-town because of her well reasoned posts (even if I disagree with the reasoning) but after my catchup, I must say that Ran has caught something with her immediate unvote of SK based on his catchup post #283. She is moving in the right direction by calling it minimalist; in many ways, it is completely vaccuous. I do not see how she would unvote with a post like that. My meta of her is as a very thorough player as town. Ran is right to call her on this. This is not the strong July that I have experienced and I will need to hear from her on this. Null to scum

I addressed the Soup unvoting thing in these posts:

Spoiler

I asked DeGrey because I want to know and I didn't see an answer from him, which I would like because once again I see him talking a lot but not scumhunting or giving reasons beyond his argument that Nich is a liability. It was nothing about helping handle the attacks on you, I want his reasons to help with my read on him.

I noticed the original question and I honestly have no idea what DeGrey wanted to get from you or Nabe in response, but your response was much more than what he asked for and stooped into advice dogging. If you wanna know why specifically I brought it up, its because in Rusty Guillotine you kept stooping into advice dogging because J mentioned self-voting and it messes with my read on you because I know you do it as town and scum but I see it as scummy most of the time.

Yesterday literally all we had to go off of was the T-Block/Nich argument. I will still keep my eye on SK but my reasons for voting yesterday were based very heavily off preliminary reads and things like this:



Honestly, I just had an issue with how he reacted to the T-Block/Nich thing and that is something that is not as much of an issue any more and like I very clearly stated at the end of that paragraph I wanted to hear more from Soup.

I agree with you that Reyth could be doing more but I only know his scum play and I want more from him and like I said, I want answers to outstanding questions. DeGrey is also a person that I don't like but Ryker is by far one of the hardest people for me to read (along with Kuz) and I would like to hear more from the hydra before I go anywhere.

Why do you not like me having a vote out there? I haven't had my vote on someone for a post and a half, two posts maybe and you find that suspicious...I will place my vote when I feel like I have enough information to make a solid vote, that could be in two posts or it could be in ten but I assure you not having my vote somewhere does not mean I am not scumhunting.

Towards the end of this one:

Not sure how many other people found Soup suspicious or scummy, but my reasons for voting him yesterday are in my #315.

The second question I have been thinking about a lot and I've been trying to understand what exactly Ryker feels about Nich. It starts with this post:



These bolded parts give me the feeling that Ryker is okay with a Nich lynch, which makes sense if he believes the first is true. The second option is strange but I guess thats the part that adds to him being a liability. But I'm still struggling with what the fact that he is a "liability" even means. Does that mean Ryker advocates we lynch him? If not, what does it mean?

Then here:



He talks about/jokes about voting Nich, not really sure what the tone of this is but once again I get the feeling that he is not too concerned about keeping Nich around which is reinforced here:



Where he seems to be leaning more towards Nich as scum or as an unsaveable mislynch sans a claim. That's why this post makes no sense to me:



Here he talks as if he believes that Nich is town that is on a path to being mislynched and that he is trying to help him avoid that. I honestly don't understand how this all adds up, before he said that Nich was either dumb or scum, scum or easy mislynch that could be saved only with a pr, he called him a liability...so what is the real motivation here? If he thinks he is scum then he should be in support of his lynch. If he thinks he is an easy mislynch then we go back to the "liability" argument and then why is he trying to save him? And he has shown no inclination that he believes it is the last of his three options earlier proposed, and if it is then how does Ryker plan to help him?

And this is where I hit my roadblock trying to figure out Ryker. What is his motivation right now in regards to Nich? I would like to hear from him some answers and explanations in regards to his interactions with Nich because I honestly don't like what I see.

Also, I might not be the best person to answer your last question but I'll give it a shot. My reads have not been very solid over the past two days and I admit that. Yesterday due to the Nich/T-Block disagreement I had Nich leaning scummy, T-Block leaning town, and SoupaKat somewhat suspicious. Nich has improved today and I'm feeling better about him, he's null town and T-Block is still leaning town for me, SoupaKat is also fine in my book as long as he keeps giving reads and scumhunting. Reyth and DeGrey have drawn negative attention from me today and those are the players that are leaning scummy for me. Reyth has promised information and I have specific information I want from DeGrey and I'll go from there with those two. Everyone else you can assume is null or town.

And this one:

1. I don't care, it's important to my read on DeGrey so I asked him myself.

2. What I meant is that I thought it was a stupid question on his part, and I had no idea why he thought it was important enough to ask you about it. I don't know what I expected, personally it would have been one line, "FoS's are weak in terms of pressure"...something like that, wasn't meant to be a big deal like I just didn't want to see it persistently. And like I said I think its a stupid question so it doesn't bother me that Nabe didn't answer it.

3. Preliminary reads as in the reads I had in the beginning of the game based off first impressions, limited interactions, etc that are subject to change as I scumhunt and gain more info.

4. My read on SK is pretty null, SK and I will be alright as long as they give reads and scumhunt. If I were to vote someone right now it would be DeGrey but I want info from him, specifically clarification of his interactions with Nich and why he is concerned about getting a read on you. My vote could also end up on Reyth depending on how I feel about his catch-up post, but we'll see. I like Kawaii so far, they've gotten into the fray of things a little today and have been commenting on current events, feeling null town so far.

5. That's fine, I feel like as long as Soup posts and is active I can get a pretty good read on him and my vote staying there based on those one or two reasons from early and for pressure was not necessary. I am obviously still reading them but my vote doesn't have to be there to do so.



I think that's understandable, I really haven't taken as much heat or gone head to head with people as much as some other players, but I will challenge people like DeGrey if I feel I am disatisfied with their stances and I will get my opinion out there, just have to give me some time to get in the fray

If you have any other questions about my read on SoupaKat then let me know. Also I am still a very thorough player, my reads are getting more solid and my next vote will be on someone I find definitively scummy, and that is not Soup right now.

Nich -- The most prolific poster in this game. The fencesat vote of T-Block has been posted about to death. Upon my further inquiry though, Nich has denied actually having a reason to vote T-Block but yet in his voting post he calls Nich "dumb or scum"; this is severe scum cog-dis. I see a newb-scum player here trying to appear town but nervous about it, fencesitting a growing wagon but not even sure why? How can a player be "dumb or scum" for no reason? I think Nich is heavily populist minded here and afraid to take a stance and I think this is because of the weight of his scum alignment. For the people that are saying he is just newb-town, this has got to be some of the worst town play I have seen and I don't think it comes from town. I don't care if its unpopular, it is my opinion. I have found two posts in particular that I cited ITT where it appears that he knows T-Block is town; #142 and #15?. At first I just brushed this off as newb-play but now that he has cog-dis'ed on his original vote of T-Block in the first place, I hold this as evidence of him as scum. There is also the populist vote change to .jpg which I really didn't like at all; I think all the reasons he gives to vote .jpg are the reasons I am voting him and others should too. scum

I've never played with Nich before but I don't think he is a newb; does that change your opinion of him at all? Also I checked out #142 (wasn't sure what the other post was supposed to be, sorry), I didn't see anything that struck me as him knowing T-Block was town. Honestly I felt like Grey had a couple posts (#267) that inferred he knew Nich was town in a more direct way than Nich's post here. Can you explain why you think it appears Nich knows T-Block is town?

SK -- Openly declares a sheep vote on T-Block. Wrongly declares T-Block's vote of Nich as OMGUS. "wow interesting events"; just pings my gut and I did seem to get another gut view of SK over the TB-Nich as a sort of "scum glee" if you will, but just gut. Severe backpedaling and case reaching on T-Block; very populist. Then we have post #283 which was basically slapped together; I see no reason to assign a blanket town read to KK (even though my gut says town), so I assume this is a gut read. Says Nich is newb-town; this is an easy read to make but I would REALLY like to see the town reasoning on this because newb is not a faction. T-Block is not scum but needs more content, OK. Ran town for shallow questionnig that he follows up on OK, we agree. Swiss is town; no reasoning, just Swiss is town? From what? Grey is town for proactive; this is a meta read that I am unfamiliar with but w/e. I am scum for shallow questions (not shallow) while catching up; bzzzzt. July null for not enough content?? and Swiss gets a town read?? This analysis post is NOT genuine. PLSD null for no content (obvious). Based on the play this slot has exhibited: Scum

Not newb town, dumb town. On mafiascum this would be closest to a VI I guess. I don't agree, I feel like T-Block v. Nich was a case of huge overstatements and things just getting blown out of proportion, and towards the end it felt very T v. T to me. Nich v. Grey I absolutely disagree with you on and I feel like Nich actually looked pretty good there, and I agree with a lot of his rebuttals to Grey's...argument, plan, idk what it is or what he is trying to do in respect to Nich but I thought he handled it pretty well there.

Swiss -- Entry post #206 T-Block scum, nich town (no reasoning). Doesn't like me (understandable at that point I had 0 content even though we appeared to agree on T-Block), Ran town, July town (no reasoning). KK crapologic (what's the read though?). Reyth/Nich good second wagons; Nich a good second wagon?? Nabe pointed out you called Nich town 3 times in one post... Odd. My suspicion has no reasoning as well. ITT Swiss seems to be getting some respect by default and only has the one post; I will give him the benefit of the doubt for him to improve and say: Null to scum

You know how in the Ran section some of the things were "classic Ran". This play is like "classic Swiss", I've played with him once and had a town read on him pretty much all game even after he helped convince me to lynch the un-cc'ed cop, so there is a lot of respect/meta going into reads for him so far.

I checked out the rest of it, even though I disagree on you with quite a few of your reads I can't deny that you have taken a lot of time and looked well beyond the surface of posts and really dug into scumhunting and motivation. Honestly not surprised but very satisfied with this post.

 

[Xivii]

Ran, who is he?

 

[ranmaru]

@Zen: He's a friend from Mafia scum.

 

[Reyth]

Don't even mention FE, Nabe. ARGH no-flips.

On a more constructive note, I don't have a problem with ran, he brings up a good point about me not voting T-block earlier, my pressure vote would have been more effective had I done it then.

Video seems decent as well, I like his aggressive style. I'm a bit iffy on pressure votes being scummy though. Does he really think I'm scum trying for a mislynch just a few pages into the game?

T-block is the one my radar would go closest to scum on. Wagon jumping doesn't mean much this early in the game, and he uses the same pressure vote = scum thing. Also, it feels a bit off that the wagon on him suddenly disappeared and pressure shifted to me so quickly. If he ends up scum I'll likely give Video and Ran's votes a lot more thought.

NOW we're getting somewhere. I defy you to point out how I've been "lashing out". Additionally, given your completely antagonistic attitude (and the fact that we were leaving RVS), I think your vote on me could be classified as a little harder than lashing out.


You seem to be reading a lot more into my posts then I actually wrote. I meant what I said, it felt a bit off that the wagon on you dropped off and people flocked to me for pressure voting you. It's something more for future connections should you flip scum then to actually incriminate you, actually.

[QUOTE[
I voted you not for your vote on me per se, but because
a) the timing of it was scummy; you were clearly voting me for my mechanics talk earlier, yet the vote only comes after two other votes had been cast
b) you left back doors on your vote; if I ended up getting mislynched, you can point at that post and say that the vote was just for pressure, and that you thought it was just bad play rather than scum play

a) So, a wagon in what's at least semi-RVS is scummy? I figured that by adding a little more pressure to the wagon I'd get some more info out of you. What happened wasn't exactly what I intended, but I've gotten my info alright.
b) Look, I quite clearly said the vote was for pressure. If I just left it on you (without later stating more info on it changing to a "real" vote) and you got lynched, that would be a major red flag for anyone with a brain.

@Nabe
Is T-block a newbie, or has he played before?[/QUOTE]
The bolded both are written with a town flip in mind, and this is the guy he is voting for.

Sorry I'm getting overwhelmed with posts here and I truly can't keep up. I will do my best however.

 

[Xivii]

I don't buy it, Ran, I know it's really HepAlien.

 

[ranmaru]

It's not xD

 

[Reyth]

On #142 specifically, I agree with the cog-dis case that T-Block pointed out but I referenced that post and the further #155 for the reasons in red. T-Block's addition is noted and accepted.

 

[Reyth]

Like when I nail scum I throw a party. Its not a red flag!

 

[Reyth]

See it shows how scum would be thinking about the situation; its like he just pasted the scum thought process right into his post.

 

[T-block]

This catchup is taking me forever.

Ranmaru-July interaction is weird as ****. Anyone else think so? I'll look into it more in-depth later.

Reyth, can you clarify your 368? Not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[Reyth]

You seem to agree with Grey about his stance on Nich. Do you think Grey sees Nich as scum, and do you think his #267 where he says he wants to help Nich is genuine?

I think Grey is genuinely conflicted and rightly so. He reacts the same as I do when I see low-level prob-scum play. I don't have much to go on with Grey and so I can't really put much stock in his behavior but I read it as genuine towards Nich and it is a mix of frustration and suspicion. I think he tried to overcome himself and help Nich if he was town; something that I might do if I could.

 

[Reyth]

This catchup is taking me forever.

Ranmaru-July interaction is weird as ****. Anyone else think so? I'll look into it more in-depth later.

Reyth, can you clarify your 368? Not sure what you're trying to say.

The bottom quote in red is the stronger one; in the top one he calls you a mislynch which I noted and did not like. But the bottom one (#155) really bought the farm -- why is lynching scum a major red flag? He is presuming you are town here and will flip as such. I think this is literally the scum mindset posted in plain view.

 

[Reyth]

He was out there saying dumb or scum and was right!

There is no red flag there when you flip scum so therefore he posted EXACTLY what he is thinking as scum, "Gosh, if I vote this wagon he will flip town and there will be a major red flag for anyone with a brain"; hence the fencesitting.

And then he totally backs off of any reason for voting you at all. He called you dumb or scum for no reason whatsoever, just to pressure you.

Umm, no. Far too concerned over what perceptions will be of him throughout all of his play and defense of his play. His denial of having a concrete reason to vote you (which is obviously a lie proven itt) shows cog-dis which is typical of newb-scum. Why is he lying about the reason he voted you and saying now there was no reason?

I can't see town behaving this way, period.

 

[Reyth]

I hope you keep an eye on JPG and don't let him side line. K?

So far we have only disagreed on minor things and on the whole we have been in agreement.

 

[July]

See it shows how scum would be thinking about the situation; its like he just pasted the scum thought process right into his post.

I'm still not sold on it in #142, but #155 definitely stands out as something that I wouldn't think of and I agree isn't a natural reaction from town.

However, there is no way I can see Nich v. Grey as S v. S and this:

I think Grey is genuinely conflicted and rightly so. He reacts the same as I do when I see low-level prob-scum play. I don't have much to go on with Grey and so I can't really put much stock in his behavior but I read it as genuine towards Nich and it is a mix of frustration and suspicion. I think he tried to overcome himself and help Nich if he was town; something that I might do if I could.

I disagree with. I think that you genuinely think that Grey is conflicted, but I don't think that Grey's interactions with Nich are genuine at all. Calling Nich a "liability", that he's either dumb or scum, stating that he is a scummy player and then following all that up by saying he's just trying to help him does not feel genuine. And Ryker is not one to focus that heavily on someone he doesn't think is scum and derail himself that far from scumhunting out of fear that scum will be able to push a mislynch on Nich if he is town. And in fact he's done nothing else but give out town reads on Swiss, Nabe, and T-Block, and state his dislike of Ran all unsubstantiated and without one shred of scumhunting behind it.

Reyth, I like what you have presented on Nich, but I can't see Nich/DeGrey scum team. For me to believe that Nich is scum, Grey has to convince me that he is town.

 

[Reyth]

Ya grey has to convince me he's town too. That's why I only have him as null with some nice stuff thrown in.

Is "dumb or scum" a buzz word? Because that phrase was first used by only Nich to apply to T-Block...?

I can and do read Grey saying all of the things you are quoting and doing so genuinely as town (if he is town).

Ya number #142 upon review is kinda weak because he mentions it in the context of himself being scum. Checking my notes, I didn't actually note anything for that post but #155 I definitely did. I think it was more gut on #142 because I can't seem to trace anything further now upon review.

 

[T-block]

The bottom quote in red is the stronger one; in the top one he calls you a mislynch which I noted and did not like. But the bottom one (#155) really bought the farm -- why is lynching scum a major red flag? He is presuming you are town here and will flip as such. I think this is literally the scum mindset posted in plain view.

I dunno, I think I disagree here. He's dealing in hypotheticals, even if it's only loosely implied in the second one.

He was out there saying dumb or scum and was right!

There is no red flag there when you flip scum so therefore he posted EXACTLY what he is thinking as scum, "Gosh, if I vote this wagon he will flip town and there will be a major red flag for anyone with a brain"; hence the fencesitting.

And then he totally backs off of any reason for voting you at all. He called you dumb or scum for no reason whatsoever, just to pressure you.

Umm, no. Far too concerned over what perceptions will be of him throughout all of his play and defense of his play. His denial of having a concrete reason to vote you (which is obviously a lie proven itt) shows cog-dis which is typical of newb-scum. Why is he lying about the reason he voted you and saying now there was no reason?

I can't see town behaving this way, period.

But I pretty much agree with the idea behind this, so yeah.

 

[T-block]

Umm... 142 is scummy as **** when taken into account with 229 and 234. Agree/disagree?

 

[Reyth]

I agree with you T-Block. Weak as **** from my reasoning and notes but definitely a scum cog-dis tell on your analysis. I hold my #155 as very strong though.

 

[T-block]

I'm lonely VT

VT in an OS game? I call BS.

Zen, can you please DO SOMETHING? T.T

 

[July]

Ya grey has to convince me he's town too. That's why I only have him as null with some nice stuff thrown in.

Is "dumb or scum" a buzz word? Because that phrase was first used by only Nich to apply to T-Block...?

I can and do read Grey saying all of the things you are quoting and doing so genuinely as town (if he is town).

Ya number #142 upon review is kinda weak because he mentions it in the context of himself being scum. Checking my notes, I didn't actually note anything for that post but #155 I definitely did. I think it was more gut on #142 because I can't seem to trace anything further now upon review.

Grey used the term "dumb or scum" in reference to Nich as well here:

Please stop trying to trade walls. It's dumb.

Also, I haven't read the entire thread. I've only skimmed parts of it.

What I've got:

Swiss town. I'm not even gonna consider him scum this game.
TBlock, probably town.
Nich, dumb or scum.
Nabe, probably town.

I'll update this later.

And I have no problem with you reading Grey as genuine, that doesn't affect my read on you, I just view it much more skeptically and I see that the entire exchange could have scummy motivation behind it.

 

[Reyth]

Ok, I could read Grey as scum for the reasons you state. But then I would have to believe he is openly scum slipping? You are saying he figured he would set up Nich and nobody would notice?

Still Grey can be scum here but it would be more along the lines of he was pulling a "I'm obv-town, look at my awesomeness, take me or leave me, I couldn't care less" ploy but I need better evidence to believe that; I mean I don't think his behavior you cited is a scum tell for him.

 

[X1-12]

Did that scare you? Of course not, there was never a chance of that in the first place. Me openly stating it was a pressure vote was essentially making it an IGMEOY like Ran did with me. That still does carry pressure, and gives me a chance to up the pressure later on should a bad reaction change it into a "real" vote. Anyway, show why it's scummy or be quiet. I'm not liking how you're still pursuing me for that one post and basically ignoring my case on T-block. Although you occasionally point out problems in his posts, it seem odd that your opinion hasn't changed.

You're an idiot. and I'm ignoring the case on T-block because I think its weak as balls

@Nabe: I think Nichs just a dumb townie, look at stuff where he says "I'm a bit iffy on pressure votes being scummy though." just looks massively like butthurt townie who doesn't like what I attacked him for.

@DeGrey: What do you think about my above response to Nabe about Nich?

I'm not sure on block but I don't like the case on him.

@Nich: Degrey is DeGrey, I can't read him from what he has posted so far, I find the amount he's talking about LYLO/Endgame and which players should be there etc unusual but I can't extrapolate (correct word usage?) a read from that. Nabe I currently feel fine about, particularly his press on the Soup half of the hydra, talking about how his fast responses seemed genuine etc etc, for linked reasons, I also feel ok about Soupkat

@Nich: Do you STILL not realise that OS completely played you in Fire Emblem

@Overswarm
If this guy is a politician or some other ******** role that tries to get votes, I'm going to be furious. Just FYI.

Except, hey look! No-one voting for him, and probably no-one will.

I'm gonna be looking more into SoupaKat and July imo. Both just seem off so re-read will clear some stuff up. I kinda skimmed some of Julys posts since I know I'm coming back to them and am in a hurry. Skimmed some posts at the end too but will get back to them

atm I'm feeling that voting or pushing Nich is a very bad idea. I want more from the Kat head of the hydra and more from the Raziek head of DeGrey.

at a tourney today, gonna actually speak to asdioh soon and actually play this game like a hydra, which is what he wants me to do.

@Reyth: Does Cog-Dis stand for cognitive dissonance?

 

[Reyth]

Yes it does.

 

[July]

Ok, I could read Grey as scum for the reasons you state. But then I would have to believe he is openly scum slipping? You are saying he figured he would set up Nich and nobody would notice?

Still Grey can be scum here but it would be more along the lines of he was pulling a "I'm obv-town, look at my awesomeness, take me or leave me, I couldn't care less" ploy but I need better evidence to believe that; I mean I don't think his behavior you cited is a scum tell for him.

I don't think it's as straight forward as scum slipping. I have read over his posts over and over again and I still don't know what he wants to happen to Nich...and in some way I think that's the point. I don't think he cares if Nich is toDay's lynch or a lynch down the line, I think he just wants to keep him in the back of everyone's mind as a "good" lynch because he is a "liability".

This is why I want to hear from Grey though, because I want to know exactly how he feels about Nich and whether or not he should lynched toDay.

Also, Kawaii Kangaroo, what do you think of DeGrey? I know J has played quite a few games with Ryker and from what I've seen reads him very well.

 

[Reyth]

I want to hear more from Grey too and support your efforts. I need to him to vote and declare his top 3-4 scum picks for instance. We've been introduced and I have an initial favorable opinion, but he actually has to converse now.

 

[Reyth]

I hold both Swiss and Grey to be kind of like Fate. Very difficult to read and they don't scum hunt like the rest of us.

 

[T-block]

I can't do it. I'm stopping at 363 lol... I'll be around tomorrow and I'll give thoughts and reads and all that.

I know July asked me some questions, so don't let me forget about those.

 

[Reyth]

@July: Could you comment specifically on SK's post #283, because it is the only thing he posted before you unvoted?

You know, I have caught scum off of their analysis posts being of very poor quality before...

 

[July]

I hold both Swiss and Grey to be kind of like Fate. Very difficult to read and they don't scum hunt like the rest of us.

Actually I understand that, one of the few games I played on ms was with Fate and he was painfully null for me until he was nk'ed.

I can't do it. I'm stopping at 363 lol... I'll be around tomorrow and I'll give thoughts and reads and all that.

I know July asked me some questions, so don't let me forget about those.

Actually the only question for you I believe was from my 295:

"T-Block, how confident do you feel in your read on Nich? Do you have any other scum reads besides Nich?"

Reposting it here but not expecting an answer right away because honestly its 6 am here and I'm getting ready to finally sleep.

Also that question can be simplified to: How do you feel about Nich now? Who are your current scum picks and why?

 

[Kawaii Kangaroo]

@Reyth: funniest thing is that you refer to Nich as noob, but he is easily the oldest dGames face by a wide margin in this game. Not sure where you're drawing your lines of experience/skill from.

 

[Reyth]

Well obviously then this is true as I've been told this twice ITT. But yet I was sitting here nodding my head as Grey described his take on Nich...

See now I'm starting to feel all frustrated like Grey here.

I just simply CANNOT abide by Nich's behavior in this thread, AT ALL. I think he is likely scum for not being able to keep a single straight story concerning anything surounding his vote of T-Block. I don't like his .jpg vote either.

I guess I just don't have proper terminology to describe him.

 

[July]

@July: Could you comment specifically on SK's post #283, because it is the only thing he posted before you unvoted?

You know, I have caught scum off of their analysis posts being of very poor quality before...

Sure, legit last post before I get to sleep though.

Updates from both heads, formulated in the secret disco!

- Kata says hi to you, vandy, and also thinks you are town.

-Nich is town, dumb, but town, kata and I feel that his play so far is less cautious and more reactive, much like a ticking time bomb that explodes on impact! We feel that people should be cautious of the ticking time bomb and that further attacks are just going to rupture it more, while they may be just in a way, it's something we want to avoid, and move on from, mostly because it's a waste of time!

-Tblock is looking better, but see the above! We want to see you do more besides attack and trade walls with nix.

- Ran is looking town, kata says, I say "but his questions are so shallow" and he replies "but atleast he acts on them"

- Swiss is town! That's all.

- A proactive ryker is the best ryker, we also believe that he is town too!

- Reyth is scummy! he is the opposite of ran right now, but still his double.

- we do not like vg.jpg anymore!

- we want to see more from july!

- Phil has dissapointed us!

That's about it for now.


Signed, disco masters soup and kata.

Vote: Reyth

As I said its minimalistic, but honestly I like this post from Soup because it's one of the first times I've ever had an idea of what is going through his head and that he's been this transparent with his reads so early in a game.

Vandy aka KK I agree with, there haven't been too many posts I remember from KK but from the comments and analysis they have provided along with some gut on them I am leaning town.

The Nich thing is the part that I really understood the most because rereading the T-Block/Nich argument I kept thinking that they very well could both be town that thinks they caught scum in the other and have taken these little things, because honestly the issues that were brought up on both sides are pretty weak but easy to latch unto early in the game, and blew them out of proportion. That combined with the Nich/DeGrey argument which I find DeGrey on the scummy side makes it very likely that Nich is just dumb town.

T-Block critque is short but legit. I said earlier while my read on T-Block is town but a lot of that is because of the T-Block/Nich thing, and my read on him from now on will be reliant on where he goes from there and his reads from here on out.

Ran read is also legit, I think his questions have been pretty helpful all in all and I agree with Kat's emphasis on the fact that Ran follows up on them, which is a really good sign for Ran and is also indicative of actual scumhunting.

Swiss town read is what it is. The ryker comment is the one thing from this I drastically disagree, as you know quite well by now. A proactive Ryker is the standard for Ryker, I don't see that changing whether he is town or scum.

The videogame.jpg read should be elaborated on, and i would like to see their updated opinion on Reyth. At the time Reyth was actually an interesting choice for a vote, and I thought a good choice, because there was a lot of anticipation of promised content but the little posts in between reading raised concern that the content would be a fizzle instead of a full analysis. Obviously not the case but at the time I think it was a fair vote and a fair concern.

Wanting to hear more from me was also valid, I definitely wasn't in the fray of things as much in the beginning.

It's a very bare post but I understand it, and I share a lot of the sentiments that SoupaKat has with the very obvious exceptions I've already pointed out. My original vote on SoupaKat was a weak vote with weak reasoning from very early in the game and I was aware of that, and my vote didn't feel comfortable on him anymore. I will obviously keep my eye on him, but right now I want to see what he does beyond the initial Nich/T-Block thing, just like I want to see from T-Block. His reads show that he's looked beyond that and put in some scumhunting beyond that, and for now thats good for me as my focus has shifted elsewhere and I have much more serious suspicions to deal with.

 

[Nicholas1024]

The bottom quote in red is the stronger one; in the top one he calls you a mislynch which I noted and did not like. But the bottom one (#155) really bought the farm -- why is lynching scum a major red flag? He is presuming you are town here and will flip as such. I think this is literally the scum mindset posted in plain view.

I was pointing out to T block that if I was scum and he was town, that using a semi-RVS pressure vote to lynch him would be an idiot plan. Still catching up ATM.

 

[Swiss]

I'll definitely look into posting again toDay.

More content later.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Might as well respond to this now while I'm at it.At the very beginning of the game, I was "in the action" like I mentioned earlier. All reads given were my own, I wasn't going along with any crowd. If I happened to be beaten to the punch, and noticed, then I would give some town points to the poster (examples Reyth and Ranmaru) for thinking along the same lines as me.

It's subtle, but basically you've managed to be in the background and push only stuff people agree with. Let's take a look at some of the stuff you've pushed...

Ryker for his horrible comment on me being a liability
Me for that whole T-block pressure vote fiasco
T-block early on while the wagon was still strong for the night action rolefishing
Swiss and Zen, our inactives (not exactly done by other people much yet, but nobody will blame someone for pressuring an inactive to post, NOBODY.)

Basically, every single thing you've been doing has been a safe play for scum. I don't like it.

I think the rest is reaching and I don't really see the need to respond to it.

Actually, that was basically the summary of the rest of it. So I think that's all I really need.

Nick, I think you've addressed this a little, but what are your thoughts on DeGrey writing you off so early as "scum or a mislynch," as if you couldn't survive the rest of the game as town without being a liability? Do you think he's town that's genuinely concerned about you being a liability, or scum that's trying to set up your mislynch in a way that won't look incriminating to him?

lol dude I'll be sure to get in this. I wanted to give scum some time to prounce about as if they have some chance of winning before I come in tarnish that hope and their very existance.

After Fire Emblem, color me skeptical of your scumhunting skills, Zen.

First of all some personal business.
*small snip*

2) Many players have said that fencesitting a vote like Nich did, is not (and even cannot) be scummy. I absolutely disagree. How it is scummy depends on the target. If the target is town, then a fencesat vote is a way to appear as town by joining a wagon but doing it in a way that minimalizes the responsibility of that vote. It is also possibly a demonstration of newb-scum feeling under pressure because they know the target is town but still want to appear as town themselves; I disagree that the fencesitting doesn't help their case when eventually called on their vote. If the target is scum then it is a way to get onto the scum wagon for town cred while trying to discredit said wagon. Anyway, I will cover this more with Nich on my case on him because now it seems he didn't even have a proper voting reason in mind even though he declared one (a strong scum tell, and scum cog-dis).

Objection. Why would scum fencesit a wagon in RVS? It attracts more attention than simply joining the wagon ever would. Don't try to excuse it as newb scum, as I've been on this site for a long time.

*snip*

Grey -- I have to agree with agree with Grey about Nich. He is obviously an experienced player and from the old school (my case on Nich is not a policy lynch however and I am voting him because I genuinely think he is scum). He asked me if I was a gut or analysis based player: I am both but I place emphasis on analysis above gut. I am learning to listen to my gut more, but its not easy. You will not find Grey scum hunting in a traditional way; he is very deeply imbedded in mafia psychology. I have to agree with him on reading Swiss in that if you have an experienced player, you CANNOT read them but through their personal reads and votes because they do not scum tell or scum slip. I will be reading Grey the same way here. Right now, Ranmaru is right -- Grey needs to vote. From what I can gather his top scum reads are Ran, Nich and PLSD. There has been little reasoning especially on Ran and PLSD. I would really like to see his top 3-4 scum suspects with reasoning before I can feel comfortable with him. Null

So, does this mean that if you didn't think I was scum you'd still be voting me? And I disagree that experienced players don't leave scum tells, as they often vary from person to person anyway. (To use a classic example, Frozenflame lurking is almost a given, but if Cello does it, it's as good as a guilty investigation.) I dislike that you're basically giving Grey a free pass to do whatever he wants and basically judge him on who he picks as scum/town.

Nich -- The most prolific poster in this game. The fencesat vote of T-Block has been posted about to death. Upon my further inquiry though, Nich has denied actually having a reason to vote T-Block but yet in his voting post he calls Nich "dumb or scum"; this is severe scum cog-dis.

Do I really need to explain this again? I did not have a STRONG reason for the vote, except for pressure purposes. The idea was that the night action speculation was either mistaken town or a scum move, but I wasn't sure which, and it isn't until that kind of stuff piles up that it's really a scum tell.

I see a newb-scum player here trying to appear town but nervous about it, fencesitting a growing wagon but not even sure why? How can a player be "dumb or scum" for no reason? I think Nich is heavily populist minded here and afraid to take a stance and I think this is because of the weight of his scum alignment.

Hold it, I led the push against T-block once we were out of RVS, for crying out loud, that's what half the game has been, me vs T-block. Do you call THAT populist minded? (Note that I barely if ever brought up the night action thing in my case against him, which is what all prior pressure to him had been on.) Also, since I'm not newbie, how does this change your analysis?

For the people that are saying he is just newb-town, this has got to be some of the worst town play I have seen and I don't think it comes from town. I don't care if its unpopular, it is my opinion. I have found two posts in particular that I cited ITT where it appears that he knows T-Block is town; #142 and #15?. At first I just brushed this off as newb-play but now that he has cog-dis'ed on his original vote of T-Block in the first place, I hold this as evidence of him as scum. There is also the populist vote change to .jpg which I really didn't like at all; I think all the reasons he gives to vote .jpg are the reasons I am voting him and others should too. scum

What do you mean a populist vote of .jpg? I was the first one to do it, IIRC. I switched my vote from T-block for two reasons.

1) I usually tunnel a LOT on a player I think is scum. This meant I didn't have a strong grasp of the other players in the game, so I did a reread, and video games caught my eye.

2) The vote wasn't doing anything useful anyway, as neither a lynch nor additional pressure was coming to T-block any time soon. So there was no reason not to change it.

T-Block -- Huge massive night action(rolefishing)-mechanic(rolefishing, setup speculation) initial post. I see this as a potential serious attempt to guide the town in an unhealthy direction, sow confusion and town posture as well. I ultimately agree with Nabe on the fact that he gave it up; the fact is that he tried it though and his backpedal on it was pretty strong. At the very least the town was directed properly by all of the negative attention he got and quick. Subsequent to all of that, he appeared immediately better (whereas Nich appears worse and worse) and his vote for Nich was warranted. I think he appeared to be trying too hard initially with Nich but I think T-Block has caught scum and properly. I like how he called SK out on misrep on the OMGUS. Both SK and Nich attempt to float a WIFOM theory against T-Block which completely lacks merit. I like his statement about trying new playstyles. I also like his cop peek choices alot and his view on Ran. I need to see T-Block branch out more from the Nich tunnel but he seems to be going in the right direction for me now: Leaning Town

I am completely hating that although you've brought up some points against me, you haven't said a thing about my case against T-block, and basically dismissed it out of hand. So I want proof you're not bluffing here. I want you to go back over my summarized case against T-block and show where it's so horrible.

You're an idiot. and I'm ignoring the case on T-block because I think its weak as balls

Prove it then, X1. I'm tired of people bluffing "Oh, bad case" without actually showing anything.

@Nich: Do you STILL not realise that OS completely played you in Fire Emblem

You're one to talk, X1. You got played just as hard as I did. (OS wasted all of D2 by simply antagonizing you.) You realize there's a reason nobody believed you when you were foaming at the mouth about OS-scum?

@Reyth: funniest thing is that you refer to Nich as noob, but he is easily the oldest dGames face by a wide margin in this game. Not sure where you're drawing your lines of experience/skill from.

This is true, my first game was Spidey mafia, I just haven't been on the site in a while.