Tier List Speculation

[Cia]

I personally think zss has an edge on peach, but no one on the ZSS boards seems to agree with me so idk.

I think so as well. but a slight edge. Like if the Peach player is overall better than his/her opponent, he/she would still win.

 

[ChiePet]

Uhh peach isnt undersold whatsoever. She gets hit hard by the fact that characters in pm have generally better neutrals in terms of projectiles and zoning. Her counter play was a little underdeveloped in melee too, since people don't really realize how potent platform camping is against her.
On top of the matchups you listed, she also loses to pretty solidly to link sheik ike and slightly loses to ivy and marth.
She's still probably good enough that you wouldn't need a secondary, but I think she's about mid/upper mid.

It's what opinions are for though at least;
I will agree that Ike can be rough but still think it's even (that NAir and FTilt are enough to make me punch a wall though), Link I don't see at all why you'd say that, but do explain; Sheik makes sense, but still even because they both have tools in different places that out-weigh each other (sheik, BThrow USmash; Peach, Ledge guard sheik's Up B and FAir/Turnip/Dash Attack beat out most Needle storms, ect.), Ivy I admit I forgot about but Peach's biggest issue is getting back to the ground once she's up in the air in kill zones, and Ivy has some obnoxious ways to take a stock if you aren't ready for it (Seed Bomb at it's Apex is stupid, and never float in Vine Whip Range..) but even still Ivy has a terrible weight/air mobillity situation that cause CG's to high percents, Razor leaf isnt as durable as a Turnip, and outside of RAR BAir Peach's FAir and Nair can clank most Ivy's aresenal. still say it's about Even. Marth is not nearly as Campy in PM as he's starting to be in Melee, so although I'd respectfully say he's 55:45 against Peach, I just can't say it.

TL;DR: Good points, but I respectfully disagree, as well as re-state that Fox, C.Falcon, and Zelda are Peach's only legitimate 55:45 MUs; the rest being 50:50 across the board (minus a few in her favor)

I think so as well. but a slight edge. Like if the Peach player is overall better than his/her opponent, he/she would still win.

Same as above, Most MUs are straight even in PM, brawl and melee AT accounted for. I understand that Player Skill isn't a tier oriented thing, but Peach definitely has a high AT/Tech Skill wall that takes some dedication to get her up to that Level, it's one of the biggest reasons I believe Peach is under-represented in PM.

EDIT: If I somehow came off condescending or rude by any means, don't be offended; I really mean it when I say I understand but respectfully disagree. I don't have the heart to jump down someone's throat over personal opinions (

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Quick dumb question that is probably obvious, but does Lucario's OHC mean he can negate his own attacks' hitlag with whatever is next in the magic series, or can he only cancel starting the frame after hitlag?

I only ask because I recall a gif where iPK comboed someone with ASC, some tilt, and Dsmash and repeated this multiple times. I was confused as to why the Dsmashes didn't send his target flying. Alternatively, does ASC come out fast enough to somehow cancel the KB of Dsmash?

OHC does not cancel through hitlag. They can be buffered (inputed) during hitlag though. The aura sphere charge hitbox comes out frame 2 or 3 iirc. Since the oponent would go flying during hitlag that could maybe stop them. The charge hitbox is pretty far back though. I would have to see the GIF to know exactly what you saw.

 

[Rachman]

Can someone explain to me the main uses of AGT in PM (examples for each character it is important to would be nice but if they are all used similarly it doesn't really matter)? I'd assume it would be used as a burst movement option which is low commitment and for stuff like Link/TLink's recovery but I didn't really think it would be a game changer. Sorry if this is stupid, I'm mostly a melee player and I have 0 item game but I'm really curious about the implications this tech has on item characters. Thanks @ ChiePet

 

[ChiePet]

Can someone explain to me the main uses of AGT in PM (examples for each character it is important to would be nice but if they are all used similarly it doesn't really matter)? I'd assume it would be used as a burst movement option which is low commitment and for stuff like Link/TLink's recovery but I didn't really think it would be a game changer. Sorry if this is stupid, I'm mostly a melee player and I have 0 item game but I'm really curious about the implications this tech has on item characters. Thanks @ ChiePet

Quite a few uses for AGT and GT, mostly minor, but if Melee (or even FGs for that matter) has taught me anything its that minor things effect the game in major ways, and mastering them just further brings you up that Tech-Skill wall.
AGT in Peach's take on it is useful for Approach (Turnip on Shield is Good, but Turnip on Shield while covering twice the distance AGT towards them makes a difference) to Retreat (AGT while jumping towards the opponent and AGT Up Back to drift backwards can both create an offense while keeping a safe distance or even adjust your distance for using Turnips to Gimp, and so on.) to recover (ex; Grabbed Diddy's Banana/ROBs Gyro? off stage AGT it wherever while being boosted up a good distance, only to still have your full 2nd jump and Up B left as well.) and so on. I can provide better detail of it if you'd like, but this is a rough summary of how AGT with Turnips is super useful for Peach. Seems rushed but I believe it makes a valid point haha.

 

[Soft Serve]

I actually think as a whole, Item changes hurt Peach and make Turnips less threatening vs people with item play. Especially off stage, harassing recoveries just leads to giving them boosts for their recovery. Watch the recent set between Silly Kyle and Axe's marth for examples of that.

I think the rest of peach is fantastic and the buffs to certain moves go a long way, but turnips are worse because even though she has more options with them, now the rest of the cast has good options against them

 

[Foo]

I actually think as a whole, Item changes hurt Peach and make Turnips less threatening vs people with item play. Especially off stage, harassing recoveries just leads to giving them boosts for their recovery. Watch the recent set between Silly Kyle and Axe's marth for examples of that.

I think the rest of peach is fantastic and the buffs to certain moves go a long way, but turnips are worse because even though she has more options with them, now the rest of the cast has good options against them

Yeah, this is kinda true. I can catch turnips with wavedash in my dash dance at around 95% consistency. However, I feel peach doesn't really need turnips to be that successful against a large portion of the cast. If you couldn't wavedash to catch turnips, I would put peach in top 10 without thinking.

 

[DMG]

Peach looks good until the opponent doesn't want to play Smash with her anymore

 

[The Baron]

Peach looks good until the opponent doesn't want to play Smash with her anymore

I usually get these but can you explain this one for me because it is going right over my head

 

[ChiePet]

Yeah, this is kinda true. I can catch turnips with wavedash in my dash dance at around 95% consistency. However, I feel peach doesn't really need turnips to be that successful against a large portion of the cast. If you couldn't wavedash to catch turnips, I would put peach in top 10 without thinking.

Agreed. Noting that Wavedashing catches items, the slight nerf to the HB of the Turnips, and how useful GT/AGT is as both approach and Movement options still causes enough disruption to hinder players. If they were to wavedash to grab a Turnip, they either get hit by FAir or trapped in shield stun from FAir, which FC into either Jab or Grab pretty easily/consistently. Will absolutely agree that the item mechanics change overall nerfs certain aspects of Turnips usefulness, but they're never not going to be a perk for her.

Wavelanding while re-grabbing a Special Turnip is gdlk, though.

EDIT:

Peach looks good until the opponent doesn't want to play Smash with her anymore

Peach looks good All Day, Every Day.
#BOOSH

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I usually get these but can you explain this one for me because it is going right over my head

something about how you just have to stop approaching peach and play as campy as her or something

"playing smash" is a silly false dichotomy that people like to spread around and it implies that certain types of gameplay are "unsmashlike" and therefore have no place in the game which in reality playing smash is trying to win

like obviously yes some things are not as fun to fight as others which is part of the game and yes sometimes exceptionally obnoxious things need to be patched but for the most part it's a silly thing to say

 

[PootisKonga]

OHC does not cancel through hitlag. They can be buffered (inputed) during hitlag though. The aura sphere charge hitbox comes out frame 2 or 3 iirc. Since the oponent would go flying during hitlag that could maybe stop them. The charge hitbox is pretty far back though. I would have to see the GIF to know exactly what you saw.

Thanks for the response

Instead I've found the video example

 

[DMG]

I usually get these but can you explain this one for me because it is going right over my head

Instead of approaching Peach, you make her approach instead. Her DJ is terrible for quickly covering high ground, so the most famous example is to platform camp her and run circles away from her. It's not just camping her, but avoiding her constantly. The pressure is to also not allow too many turnip pulls to grant her something favorable, although some chars like Jiggs can probably ignore that bit of advice with a stock lead and keep flying places.

post

There's a difference between playing campy, and playing in a way that aims to negate most meaningful interaction from the opponent. Smash has patience, zoning, defensive positioning, forcing the opponent to approach, etc. When you take it a bit further though, you can attempt or succeed in basically making the opponent's choices almost meaningless for the rest of the match.


I have no qualms in calling that "not playing Smash", since it's an abusive kind of playing that aims to negate + avoid as much interaction as possible. Believe me I know, I used to do that in Brawl with Wario. You can ask ADHD what happened at Genesis 1 when we met and he wanted to do a 16 min timer 3 stock match on FD.


I had one of the highest totals for matches gone to time back in Brawl: I think the only people surpassing me were M2K and some IC's like Vinnie that people were starting to time out. I know the road about not wanting to play the opponent in Smash Bros: I paved the way for Wario to avoid it


There's a line somewhere, I know I've definitely crossed it more than once LOL. I don't mind calling stuff past a certain point stalling, or "not even playing Smash". Nothing unhealthy about that: we have stages banned for circle camping in the past so it's not a stretch to imagine gameplay on other legal stages that might operate similar without appearing as blatant on the surface.

 

[ChiePet]

Instead of approaching Peach, you make her approach instead. Her DJ is terrible for quickly covering high ground, so the most famous example is to platform camp her and run circles away from her. It's not just camping her, but avoiding her constantly. The pressure is to also not allow too many turnip pulls to grant her something favorable, although some chars like Jiggs can probably ignore that bit of advice with a stock lead and keep flying places.

Too True, I cannot agree more;
Running away from aka forcing Peach out of Neutral is a big side of winning that MU. Wrong Approach method = DSmash/ Turnip/FAir/CG and or Forward Throw/ FTilt/ ect. Her Neutral Game is so good that getting her to drop it to chase is Possibly one of the biggest reasons I'm pretty adamant about Fox and Zelda being among her worst 3 MU's (C.Falc is because UAir, UAir, UAir, because her biggest problem is getting back onto the ground after being sent up into the air. DAir is not a reliable way back unless you commit to Stomping, i.e. FF'ing with DAir facing the opponent while moving away from them from up high. still not reliable though.)

 

[InfinityCollision]

A lot of characters can successfully approach the Peach matchup (among others, hello ICs) through the lens of playing until the Peach loses rather than playing to win. Peach's reward once she gets in is great, but her changes and Brawl tech only do so much in terms of helping her get there in the first place and a determined opponent can avoid that situation with a pretty high degree of success given the right character.

This is kind of a design flaw of the franchise: open aggression is discouraged in favor of reactive or even outright defensive play, but there isn't always a meaningful equivalent to the corner in the sense that you can't just back up forever without consequences. Noninteraction is sometimes a viable option, provided you have the lead.

 

[The Baron]

Instead of approaching Peach, you make her approach instead. Her DJ is terrible for quickly covering high ground, so the most famous example is to platform camp her and run circles away from her. It's not just camping her, but avoiding her constantly. The pressure is to also not allow too many turnip pulls to grant her something favorable, although some chars like Jiggs can probably ignore that bit of advice with a stock lead and keep flying places.

Ah, ok. Makes sense seeing as how when I approach too aggressively I tend to get blended into wolf smoothie or worse. Didn't realize the key was to just not approach. Weird.

 

[DMG]

Ah, ok. Makes sense seeing as how when I approach too aggressively I tend to get blended into wolf smoothie or worse. Didn't realize the key was to just not approach. Weird.

Let the other guy make his own mistakes. It becomes easier for you to win if you do so.

 

[ChiePet]

Ah, ok. Makes sense seeing as how when I approach too aggressively I tend to get blended into wolf smoothie or worse. Didn't realize the key was to just not approach. Weird.

Peach and Yoshi's Crouch Cancelled responses to aggresive play are pretty brutal.
Never come at Peach with a DAir or FAir (in the sense you would be holding Down Forward to both FAir and FF.) because that DSmash is cheap, but punishes beyond punishing. the right angle and DSmash can go from 0%-88% and potentially stage spike depending on location. Trading a Semi-charged DSmash with a Spacie resorting to using Up B is well worth the hit after they fall so far from the stage. Hope any of this info helps!

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Thanks for the response

Instead I've found the video example

I think that is the aura sphere hitbox. There is no other explanation, though I feel like the dsmash would have sent the Falcon too fast to get hit by the AS hitbox, but I think I am overestimating the speed dsmash would send you.

 

[ChiePet]

I think that is the aura sphere hitbox. There is no other explanation, though I feel like the dsmash would have sent the Falcon too fast to get hit by the AS hitbox, but I think I am overestimating the speed dsmash would send you.

Could you potentially go USmash (1hit), Aura Sphere Cancel, [cont] ? after watching iPunchKidz vs. Ookami's Fox I see Lucario in a totally new way.

 

[Player -0]

You can smash DI it but yeah you can. Same with D-Tilt.

 

[foxygrandpa]

It's what opinions are for though at least;
I will agree that Ike can be rough but still think it's even (that NAir and FTilt are enough to make me punch a wall though), Link I don't see at all why you'd say that, but do explain; Sheik makes sense, but still even because they both have tools in different places that out-weigh each other (sheik, BThrow USmash; Peach, Ledge guard sheik's Up B and FAir/Turnip/Dash Attack beat out most Needle storms, ect.), Ivy I admit I forgot about but Peach's biggest issue is getting back to the ground once she's up in the air in kill zones, and Ivy has some obnoxious ways to take a stock if you aren't ready for it (Seed Bomb at it's Apex is stupid, and never float in Vine Whip Range..) but even still Ivy has a terrible weight/air mobillity situation that cause CG's to high percents, Razor leaf isnt as durable as a Turnip, and outside of RAR BAir Peach's FAir and Nair can clank most Ivy's aresenal. still say it's about Even. Marth is not nearly as Campy in PM as he's starting to be in Melee, so although I'd respectfully say he's 55:45 against Peach, I just can't say it.

TL;DR: Good points, but I respectfully disagree, as well as re-state that Fox, C.Falcon, and Zelda are Peach's only legitimate 55:45 MUs; the rest being 50:50 across the board (minus a few in her favor)


Same as above, Most MUs are straight even in PM, brawl and melee AT accounted for. I understand that Player Skill isn't a tier oriented thing, but Peach definitely has a high AT/Tech Skill wall that takes some dedication to get her up to that Level, it's one of the biggest reasons I believe Peach is under-represented in PM.

EDIT: If I somehow came off condescending or rude by any means, don't be offended; I really mean it when I say I understand but respectfully disagree. I don't have the heart to jump down someone's throat over personal opinions (

You're not being rude, relax.
Spaced fairs with ike hurt peach badly. QD leads to large followups from throws (like it does on everyone else) and ike doesn't have an issue harassing peach in air.
Link takes advantage of her slow mobility with his projectle game and disjoint. Peach can do it on some of the smaller stages but otherwise its pretty bad. dthrow into dair kills her at 80-95 ish percent depending on the stage.
I can see what you're saying about the sheik matchup and although I respect that you're thinking critically, I disagree with you. Sheik bodies her in every stage that has a triangle platform setup. If a sheik decides to play defensively on the above platforms and stuffs peach's attempts to come up with needles into aerials, peach has little to no options. It really comes down to stage picks in this matchup. RAR bair with sheik is also devastating on floaties, and peach's turnip game is objectively worse than melee since catching items is so much easier. Rar makes Sheik really good on floaties in this game, not a lot of people realize it.
I've never really seen ivy vs peach so I don't know if can make that confident of a claim on the matchup, its just sounds bad i theory to me.
Marth can play more or less the same. Some new stages hurt him while some new ones help him too. Turnips are actually easier to catch when you try to camp her and theoretically you can DD to threaten peach's space the same way you can in melee.
And toon link is way worse than the zelda matchup imo. She can't touch him in neutral.

 

[DMG]

Ike vs Peach looks like it really sucks

 

[Boiko]

Ike vs Peach looks like it really sucks

Watch Malachi vs. DJ. It's not that bad. All of Ike's throws can be DI'd.

 

[Plum]

This Peach talk can just be summed up quickly. Basically watch INY GF's and don't do what Mango was doing.

 

[DMG]

Watch Malachi vs. DJ. It's not that bad. All of Ike's throws can be DI'd.

Most of his grabs were near the edge to begin with. On DI down + away against Dthrow, he still landed a Side B. Not thoroughly convinced about that when I see Metriod and Sparking get fairly consistent grab followups. Fthrow against Peach might be really hard for her to truly avoid a follow up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aCBK_YUBK8

That set is what I assume you refer to?

 

[Boiko]

Most of his grabs were near the edge to begin with. On DI down + away against Dthrow, he still landed a Side B. Not thoroughly convinced about that when I see Metriod and Sparking get fairly consistent grab followups. Fthrow against Peach might be really hard for her to truly avoid a follow up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aCBK_YUBK8

That set is what I assume you refer to?

Well, the one time he did Fthrow, he naired out because it was low percentages. I don't think Fthrow has guaranteed follow ups with proper DI. But it creates a difficult situation because Ike can still cover options by literally just charging QD and waiting.

I think that was a bad set to show grab follow ups specifically. I would show you mine from last week, but twitch VODs are garbage and always break, so right now only game two works. Not even sure if I get grabbed the entire game. And even if I did, I'm Ness, not Peach, sooo. Felt like my opponent was playing kind of scared after I convincingly won game one. But if you want to see it: http://www.twitch.tv/freesaltines/b/648401844?t=28m32s

 

[Juushichi]

Hm... I know that Hanky didn't like it at first, but the only Ike that I've seen him lose to after his initial struggles is Ally. He's seen Suyon's, Fizzle's and Lordy's Ike (not in a while for lordy tho).

But Ally is godlike.

I really want to see hanky travel more, he's so good lol.

Also, iirc he agrees that ZSS vs Peach is not that bad. He also thinks that Peach should absolutely not lose to Zelda, but unlike VaNz has not played Zhime.

 

[Deleted member]

Noninteraction is sometimes a viable option, provided you have the lead.

actually, i don't strictly agree with this, even though you are correct. smashers rarely play the way they are supposed to, so sometimes you can choose non-interaction anyway even though you have no business doing so from a strategic standpoint. for example, sometimes when i'm down a stock, i will camp my opponent anyway because he/she will often simply continue to attack me. atm we play with an 8 minute timer, which is just really excessive for what we need the timer to do, so it's absolutely fine to run the clock for a minute from a losing position to see if your opponent is willing to play into you even when they should not. even if they don't, you're often in the same position with no real opportunity cost, since it takes a real dedicated effort to run a game to time, usually from both players.

always remember that players from all skill levels are willing to make poor decisions if you enable them to do so.

 

[ChiePet]

You're not being rude, relax.

Spaced fairs with ike hurt peach badly.
QD leads to large followups from throws (like it does on everyone else), and ike doesn't have an issue harassing peach in air.
Link takes advantage of her slow mobility with his projectle game and disjoint. Peach can do it on some of the smaller stages but otherwise its pretty bad. dthrow into dair kills her at 80-95 ish percent depending on the stage.
I can see what you're saying about the sheik matchup and although I respect that you're thinking critically, I disagree with you. Sheik bodies her in every stage that has a triangle platform setup. If a sheik decides to play defensively on the above platforms and stuffs peach's attempts to come up with needles into aerials, peach has little to no options. It really comes down to stage picks in this matchup. RAR bair with sheik is also devastating on floaties, and peach's turnip game is objectively worse than melee since catching items is so much easier. Rar makes Sheik really good on floaties in this game, not a lot of people realize it.
I've never really seen ivy vs peach so I don't know if can make that confident of a claim on the matchup, its just sounds bad i theory to me.
Marth can play more or less the same.
Some new stages hurt him while some new ones help him too.
Turnips are actually easier to catch when you try to camp her, and theoretically you can DD to threaten peach's space, the same way you can in melee.
Toon Link is way worse than the zelda matchup imo;
She can't touch him in neutral.

Sorry for seperating the post up a bit, It made it much easier to address each character individually.

Before that though;
Mewtwo. I realized I missed him entirely when thinking of MUs. UTilt UAir and BAir are both Aerial control Peach has trouble with and the Idea of Mid-Percent FAirs terrifies me. He's definitely not without his faults, but He's another one up there with Zelda.

Ike's NAir is a big factor, as well as FTilt, as their hitstun, reach, and ledge guarding/platform chasing abilities make Ike accel past what the normal for the MU could be.
Link I believe is still a Win for Peach but I say that only acknowledging stage selection, as well as two changes to link that hurt his MU against her: Boomerang Flub nerf, and Nair's change. as a Floaty with High priority, I feel these changes keep her from being bodied by link, to say the least.
Sheik I can agree on; at least between 50:50 and 45:55 in Sheiks favor; Peach can be aggressive in the Neutral but Sheik can play defense really well, the only issue I have with Sheik is they always lack that anti-peach factor: Make Her Chase. Peach has to be good at 'wiggling' and DI to not let platforms ruin her life (yo UAir) and I'll agree that BAir is a big one i the MU, DK has that too, NAir can Trade/Kill through it but it doesn't stop the unprepared peach from being carried by RAR BAir DJ BAir. You made good points so I can agreeably compromise here.
Ivy I've made strong point on, she's not as good against Peach as she used to be, but I still value it as a tough MU that still ends out as a flat 50:50.
Marth I've had a good deal of Experience with, and albeit my local Marth is too focused on Flair and showing he can make his AT work (ugh) I still hold it to his responsibility and think the MU has been toned down on both sides from Melee, more so in his part. Most of the things from VaNz old Melee "Stuff about Peach" for the Marth MU haven't changed at all, and her AGT game along with Low Bairs and Anti-Air Dash Attacks make it still imo roughly 50:50. It's more than open to debate, though.
Now Tink I'm interested in, I can't argue what I don't know either firsthand or haven't seen, so I mainly want elaboration on this as I'm curious as to Tink's Neutral game and advantages against Peach are (especially considering a local Lucas is slowly switching to Tink, gotta be prepared all day every day.)

And as usual, always just imo.

 

[steelguttey]

you dont need to say imo when you talk about something

if youre saying something that isnt a facy, then people know its an opinion

 

[ChiePet]

you dont need to say imo when you talk about something

if youre saying something that isnt a facy, then people know its an opinion

I can't help it; I'm used to coming off somehow as an *** so I just don't want it assumed that I am, or that what I'm saying is anything more than my opinion. I do use hard evidence to make my claims, but I'll never be close-minded over it. Besides, I just wanna make sure I make a strong point for why I believe Peach belongs in the absolutely least to be the very top of B tier (assuming there's S, A, B, C, ect..)

 

[eideeiit]

you dont need to say imo when you talk about something

if youre saying something that isnt a facy, then people know its an opinion

Bro, do you even internet?

I mean, to each their own, but adding the IMOs makes sure no one will take your opinions as a fact, which can be very important from time to time. And may god have mercy on you if someone takes what you post as a "fact" when it isn't true. IMO.

.

Also I've been thinking about SDI a bit lately. What are moves that you should never have a reason not to SDI? As in, it's not all that hard and makes the opponents life significantly harder. I know of G&W's and Falco's pillar combos, maybe Lucario combos and naturally Fox u-throw uair but that's pretty much it.

 

[InfinityCollision]

From Peach's perspective, Tink is a Link with slightly less range but better mobility and punishes. He can camp you out while simultaneously running circles around you.

And yes, Mewtwo is a bad matchup for her. Great range, pseudo-disjoint, juggles, doesn't really care about float, easy kills off the top, great edgeguards, and Teleport is a decent escape option. Given that Peach's goal is to punish mistakes and Mewtwo can play the matchup very safely, a competent Mewtwo should be very dangerous to Peach.

Also I've been thinking about SDI a bit lately. What are moves that you should never have a reason not to SDI? As in, it's not all that hard and makes the opponents life significantly harder. I know of G&W's and Falco's pillar combos, maybe Lucario combos and naturally Fox u-throw uair but that's pretty much it.

Tbh you should SDI anything you can, if only to make things that slight bit harder for your opponent.

 

[steelguttey]

if someone takes any opinion as fact then they dont understand the definition of opinion

 

[Juushichi]

I still think that Peach vs Sheik is 6-4 in this game. I really, really want to see some other high level specs of this MU. I hear Footloop is running everyone up in WI with Sheik, so I would really like to see him vs Hanky. Drephen and Fizzle have completely given up on this MU and I play it only when I don't think my Diddy is up to par.

 

[ChiePet]

I still think that Peach vs Sheik is 6-4 in this game. I really, really want to see some other high level specs of this MU. I hear Footloop is running everyone up in WI with Sheik, so I would really like to see him vs Hanky. Drephen and Fizzle have completely given up on this MU and I play it only when I don't think my Diddy is up to par.

Hanky vs Drephen is the only one I could find, although I'm still looking because I believe I had one for either VaNz or Silly Kyle, will update on that.

Here's the above video, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1f_fZeanU

EDIT: I wanna say still 55:45, but I'm with you on needing a bit more behind it; it's as I said, she's under-played D;

 

[InfinityCollision]

If I didn't know better I'd say that set was Melee. Do either of them even know about airdodge catching or GT/AGT?

 

[Juushichi]

Both of them do, Infinity. Drephen is... very 2007 even in Melee. Hanky uses it sparingly, I guess the muscle memory is not here.

 

[ChiePet]

If I didn't know better I'd say that set was Melee. Do either of them even know about airdodge catching or GT/AGT?

Both of them do, Infinity. Drephen is... very 2007 even in Melee. Hanky uses it sparingly, I guess the muscle memory is not here.

Agreed to both. I'd expected one of them to at least take advantage of wave-catching while wavelanding and punish, but Melee MUs die hard; they're just so conditioned at this point. If more time/effort was put behind peach adapting Melee MU into PM (ex adding their mechanics to muscle memory) it would be so much better. In due time, I suppose; Silly Kyle said a big AZ event's this weekend and I'm hoping to see either Sheik, TLink, or Mewtwo MUs because they're the ones that peak my curiousity atm. Sheik more so to get questions answered, the other two for pure information.