Vashimus
Smash Master
Because you got a boner over Ivysaur, remember? 
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
B.W.
Smash Champion
And then I stopped playing Ivysaur anyway lol.
T.Link is everything Ivysaur wishes he was and more.
T.Link is everything Ivysaur wishes he was and more.
leelue
Smash Lord
What, like fun?
Vashimus
Smash Master
Uh, you guys have seen TL's Up-B, right?
#unviable
#jolteontoopro
#unviable
#jolteontoopro
\Apples
Smash Journeyman
He's so cute the way he wields that little sword.
I don't see how Mario is 'well rounded' as a character. He seems more like a lock-down character to me. Loves scrims, controlling opponents from close up, everything he does is mediocre until he gets to that point where he's in their face with grabs, tilts, and close range high-pace mini-battles.
A tier list that looks like.
Top: N/A
Mid: Everyone else.
Bottom: N/A (Dedede lol)
Is inevitable, and becomes more accurate with every update. To say it's far from that now is silly.
I'm glad someone else is using the word silly (TY Apples), it's one of the best words. Hilarious and Superfluous.
Edit: TL seems just as well rounded, but gravitates more to the long-distance opportunity forcing side of it.
Fun battles TL vs Mario. :D
A tier list that looks like.
Top: N/A
Mid: Everyone else.
Bottom: N/A (Dedede lol)
Is inevitable, and becomes more accurate with every update. To say it's far from that now is silly.
I'm glad someone else is using the word silly (TY Apples), it's one of the best words. Hilarious and Superfluous.
Edit: TL seems just as well rounded, but gravitates more to the long-distance opportunity forcing side of it.
Fun battles TL vs Mario. :D
HashSlingingSlasher
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 6, 2013
- Messages
- 23
snake is my best character whats yours?
Vashimus
Smash Master
.......... 
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
Snake is, how come?
HashSlingingSlasher
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 6, 2013
- Messages
- 23
idk its just really easy to control my foes with his moves.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
LOL You obviously didn't read the rest of this thread.
I said I was joking and that I think Snake is a great character, I even posted vids of me playing Snake
http://www.twitch.tv/jolte0n/b/397043456
0:00 - 9:17 vs Hoe4u (Pikachu)
17:16 - 32:02 vs Jolteon (Snake Dittos lol)
37:56 - 53:31 vs Alpha Dash (Wario/R.O.B/Diddy)
Vashimus
Smash Master
*clicks just to see the Snake ditto*
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
HashSlingingSlasher
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 6, 2013
- Messages
- 23
you expect me to go through all of that
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
lol I don't expect you to do anything, but since you didn't know I thought I would just clarify it for you.
You hoe.
leelue
Smash Lord
^ Eurolue ^
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Hey, Prof. I have Snake in my 3rd tier (or 4) which is High Mid on my tier list.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
Fair enough, seems reasonable in comparison to how much the current public metagame has gone so far.
Though I do feel if I was to live in America and attend some events he might be moved up a few places on some people's lists lol Same with Jolteon and T.Link , but I am obviously slightly bias
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
TL is basically in the same tier (a lot of characters are, imo). They're not the greatest characters, obviously but they're far from bad or unviable. My tier distinctions are basically 3-4 amazing characters, ~7 great characters, a bunch of solid to good characters, and then like 6 mediocre to bad characters. I think TL and Snake are good characters, but they could be great for all I know. There's a lot to be seen, hell GnW is placing well in Texas of all places. A solo-GnW at that (<3 you Dakpo).Fair enough, seems reasonable in comparison to how much the current public metagame has gone so far.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
So what are your tier lists based off?
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Presumed notions mostly of character strength and solo-tournament ability:
- Tier 1 are characters that I think are not only strong, but can be played solo through tournaments with great success. (Top Tier - Best Characters, can easily solo a tournament.)
- Tier 2 (High Tier - Great Characters, may have some favorable MUs vs better characters, may not. Has a chance to win tournaments by themselves.)
- Tier 3 (High-Mid Tier - Good Characters. Might be able to reasonably solo a tournament, probably needs help in terms of MU or MU unfamiliarity.)
- Tier 4 (Mid Tier - Solid Characters to Mediocre Characters. Certainly not bad, but unlikely to be able to navigate though the better characters to win tournaments and could certainly place favorably. Probably have some niche use in MUs that are favorable and could have solid MUs against most of the cast, but not enough advantages or good traits to solidify better placement. Could more likely win tournaments coupled with a secondary to cover disadvantaged MUs.)
- Tier 1 are characters that I think are not only strong, but can be played solo through tournaments with great success. (Top Tier - Best Characters, can easily solo a tournament.)
- Tier 2 (High Tier - Great Characters, may have some favorable MUs vs better characters, may not. Has a chance to win tournaments by themselves.)
- Tier 3 (High-Mid Tier - Good Characters. Might be able to reasonably solo a tournament, probably needs help in terms of MU or MU unfamiliarity.)
- Tier 4 (Mid Tier - Solid Characters to Mediocre Characters. Certainly not bad, but unlikely to be able to navigate though the better characters to win tournaments and could certainly place favorably. Probably have some niche use in MUs that are favorable and could have solid MUs against most of the cast, but not enough advantages or good traits to solidify better placement. Could more likely win tournaments coupled with a secondary to cover disadvantaged MUs.)
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
You missed my point lol.
I wasn't asking how you are grouping the characters, but instead what are you basing MAKING the tier list off in the first place?
lol at debatably even putting Snake in 'unlikely to win tournaments' category but opinions will be opinions And what is your tier list anyway out of curiousity?
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
- "I think TL and Snake are good characters, but they could be great for all I know. There's a lot to be seen."You missed my point lol.
I wasn't asking how you are grouping the characters, but instead what are you basing MAKING the tier list off in the first place?
And what is your tier list anyway out of curiousity?
- "Tier 3 (High-Mid Tier - Good Characters. Might be able to reasonably solo a tournament, probably needs help in terms of MU or MU unfamiliarity.)"
Where did you see me put Snake as unlikely to win tournaments? "
"Excuse me if I don't know what you mean by "what are you basing making the tier list off of in the first place?".
This is my current 2.5b tier grouping. The order of the characters within the tiers has no sort of significance.
Some of my opinions have changed a little (not so sure about Diddy as a Tier group 2 character, Zelda as a Tier group 3) but they seem mostly kosher in my opinion.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
The comment I made about Snake debatably being in the 'unlikely to win tournament' category was mostly due to this comment.- "I think TL and Snake are good characters, but they could be great for all I know. There's a lot to be seen."
- "Tier 3 (High-Mid Tier - Good Characters. Might be able to reasonably solo a tournament, probably needs help in terms of MU or MU unfamiliarity.)"
Where did you see me put Snake as unlikely to win tournaments? "
Excuse me if I don't know what you mean by "what are you basing making the tier list off of in the first place?".
This is my current 2.5b tier grouping. The order of the characters within the tiers has no sort of significance.
But either way, my central question still stands lol.
What are you basing the tier list off when you compiled it? And my bad on the original phrasing that led to you getting confused.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Oh, "or" is supposed to be "of". My bad.
In a game that I think is so diverse (and is showing to be), it's kind of hard but I was mostly basing my tier list on how "strong" a character felt to me. That sounds vague as hell (and it is), mostly because it's an opinionated thought on how good I thought a characters traits/matchups were against most of the cast. This has drawn from talking to a lot of players (obviously) and reading stuff on the boards, watching videos and personal theory-craft. Then when I thought about the "strength" of a character, I tried to think about how likely a character would be able to use them and win tournaments by themselves (this was using what appeared to be top players of the current meta among other things). It's all hella vague though, because there's still so much we don't know about the game.
So much that I don't even really want to order them as if I could say with certainty that "Lucario is the 16th best character" or whatever.
In a game that I think is so diverse (and is showing to be), it's kind of hard but I was mostly basing my tier list on how "strong" a character felt to me. That sounds vague as hell (and it is), mostly because it's an opinionated thought on how good I thought a characters traits/matchups were against most of the cast. This has drawn from talking to a lot of players (obviously) and reading stuff on the boards, watching videos and personal theory-craft. Then when I thought about the "strength" of a character, I tried to think about how likely a character would be able to use them and win tournaments by themselves (this was using what appeared to be top players of the current meta among other things). It's all hella vague though, because there's still so much we don't know about the game.
So much that I don't even really want to order them as if I could say with certainty that "Lucario is the 16th best character" or whatever.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
Fair enough, seems overall a reasonable approach, well that's mostly what I wanted to know anyway so thanks
Vashimus
Smash Master
What I find baffling is that a lot of people look down on theory-crafting when making tier lists in general.
"I'm not gonna THEORY-CRAFT. I'm just gonna win tournaments with DDD."
Then Armada comes out and says the problem with the community tier lists is that we focus too much on results rather than actually looking at how solid the characters are on their own and their matchups. And then everyone agrees with him because he's Armada. Dafuq?
"I'm not gonna THEORY-CRAFT. I'm just gonna win tournaments with DDD.
"Then Armada comes out and says the problem with the community tier lists is that we focus too much on results rather than actually looking at how solid the characters are on their own and their matchups. And then everyone agrees with him because he's Armada. Dafuq?
B.W.
Smash Champion
I've been basing my lists on how solid I felt characters are with only some influence from results from the beginning. That's why no one agrees with me.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I agree with Armada because lolboneslogic. Tournament results and tier lists show very different things. It's easy to look at results and just say who's won the most. Comparing characters in relation to one another, on the other hand, actually requires a bit of thinking. Theory crafting is an amazing tool, it's just a lot of people, especially early on in the metagame, are misguided in how they analyze characters. KirbyKaze is a testiment to the power of Theory Crafting: If he's having a problem, he looks at the situation and addresses it using theory before testing it in practice. That is the key to effective theory crafting- the application of the theory, showing it can be done in practice.What I find baffling is that a lot of people look down on theory-crafting when making tier lists in general.
"I'm not gonna THEORY-CRAFT. I'm just gonna win tournaments with DDD.
Then Armada comes out and says the problem with the community tier lists is that we focus too much on results rather than actually looking at how solid the characters are on their own and their matchups. And then everyone agrees with him because he's Armada. Dafuq?
From there, it does not matter if Fox "only did a waveshine full-screen gimp once," and hasn't done it since, the point is he's clearly capable of doing so and, in theory, has that tool at his disposal at any given time.
Theory crafting is not assuming frame perfection
Theory crafting is not wistful ignorance of factors
Theory crafting does not make any claims to say for certain that a character will win a tournament or beat a character
All theory crafting means is examining the game beyond the physical game and looking at all the tools and all the uses of those tools in any given situation. It is an amazing tool, because it is testable, it is provable, and it adds to the pool of knowledge that is the metagame.
leelue
Smash Lord
I suppose if you dropped somewhere at random, you'd have a 97% chance of dropping into what we call "Freemerica", which is anywhere farther than 50 miles away from the New York-New Jersey Border.
leelue
Smash Lord
Then what the hell is bubbaking doing
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
I look down on theory-crafting at this current stage (or at least the way I've seen it used the extreme majority of the time so far), because it's being done at a stage where some character's metagames haven't been developed and a lot of MU's haven't been played between people who understand their characters or are good enough in their character's development to make the claims.What I find baffling is that a lot of people look down on theory-crafting when making tier lists in general.
"I'm not gonna THEORY-CRAFT. I'm just gonna win tournaments with DDD.
Then Armada comes out and says the problem with the community tier lists is that we focus too much on results rather than actually looking at how solid the characters are on their own and their matchups. And then everyone agrees with him because he's Armada. Dafuq?
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Bubbaking of course.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
What Prof said basically. I only make claims off of things that I have personally experienced.
CyberZixx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,189
So everyone says shiek is one of the best character in the game. Why is that, is it just because Shiek's stuff is still as potent and no new character can really threaten it, even without NTSC down throw or does she do well for a reason I am unaware of?
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Sheik is a top tier character in Melee even with a softban on her chaingrabs. She still has one of the easiest times shield pokemon by far, and has top notch rewards off strong reads.
I mean poking
