Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
TheGravyTrain
Smash Ace
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Meteor_Smash
This says 80% of the knockback, 100% of the hitstun. Its definitely not extra hitstun though. It is less knockback. I don't know how you would test that, any PMDT member should know.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i won the first game with sheik. i was just playing awful and in a total defeatist mindset. when i picked marth it was basically forfeiting and i was expecting to lose. how marth or sheik does vs bowser is still up for debate but im definitely not an example for your argument.Indeed, yet against calm animal you lost with Sheik and won with Marth.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Fair enough. CA not giving me the full story :o
@
Soft Serve
Who are the best pit players? I'd like to watch some and try to verify whether or not Pit is actually this horrible.He's fun to play, but also feels kinda gross and not worth it for the reasons you've described. Bowser feels like a better character atm >.>
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Zero/armada don't play pit anymore. I think 5-1 still players pit? There weren't many pit players to begin withFair enough.
@
He's fun to play, but also feels kinda gross and not worth it for the reasons you've described. Bowser feels like a better character atm >.>
However, hitstun is proportional to knockback, which is why you can guess when people will be out of hitstun based on how their trajectory looks like, but meteor ground bounces throw people off. In Melee the hitstun formula is 0.4*knockback, I'm guessing it's the same in PM.
So in the end I'm guessing the reason I remembered 1.3 is this :
say you were hit by a meteor with x knockback while you're on the floor. You receive 0.8 * x knockback in the end, but receive 0.4 * x frames of hitstun
say now you were hit by a move that sends you upwards, with 0.8 * x knockback. Then you'll have the exact same trajectory as you had for the meteor, but you will receive 0.8 * 0.4 * x = 0.32 * x frames of hitstun
0.4/0.32 = 1.25
Therefore, you receive 25% more hitstun if you were hit by a meteor compared to the same trajectory without the ground bounce.
...
Which is my very long and elaborate way to say that yeah I probably just misread it a couple months back and won't admit I'm stupid.
TheGravyTrain
Smash Ace
B.W.
Smash Champion
5-1 doesn't play Pit any more.
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
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Because Pit is trash now. You can tell he is very skilled, he chose fox. Fox is always waiting for you. Open your and allow fox to embrace you.My scenes Pit player swiched to fox with 3.5
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CyberZixx
Smash Lord
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Actually I was playing some Fox in friendlies earlier. Shhhhh, it's our secret.
The Baron
Smash Apprentice
No. Don't choose fox. Pick wolf. He's new and exciting and people don't ***** about him every few pages. It's a win-win. Also his Dair. Dair is great.
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
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Why wolf
When i can win
When i can win
The Baron
Smash Apprentice
Winning is for scrubs who don't enjoy introducing their foes to the floor with well placed, meaty dairs, and then howling to the moon as the fresh kill sends you into a frenzy and you throw yourselves at more and more opponents, no foe fully satisfying that blood craving you get after every kill, every dair, every delicious side b perfectly set up to just the right angle. Yes, Wolf is truly the best character next to Marth of course.
steelguttey
mei is bei
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Xcite
Smash Apprentice
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- 131
Here's my two cents about Fox...
Although I think Fox deserves to be the most reworked character of the game (barring characters that have gleaming flaws such as Olimar and IC's), I think that there should be a different approach as to how we want to balance this character versus the rest of the cast. I do agree on changing specific aspects of this character such as his recovery, but altering things such as his shine would really change the identity of this character that we have all come to love (lol). So instead of potentially neutering this animal, I propose that there be a universal buff patch among the cast. Of course, I'm not referring to buff characters to 3.0 levels but instead I propose a patch that would essentially be a middle ground between 3.0 and 3.5. In this way, many of the characters of the cast will still have a strong game in comparison to each other (as well as fox), while keeping in line with the redesign elements set by the PMDT, as well as capturing the unique flavor that 3.0 had. A 3.25 of sorts.
Although I think Fox deserves to be the most reworked character of the game (barring characters that have gleaming flaws such as Olimar and IC's), I think that there should be a different approach as to how we want to balance this character versus the rest of the cast. I do agree on changing specific aspects of this character such as his recovery, but altering things such as his shine would really change the identity of this character that we have all come to love (lol). So instead of potentially neutering this animal, I propose that there be a universal buff patch among the cast. Of course, I'm not referring to buff characters to 3.0 levels but instead I propose a patch that would essentially be a middle ground between 3.0 and 3.5. In this way, many of the characters of the cast will still have a strong game in comparison to each other (as well as fox), while keeping in line with the redesign elements set by the PMDT, as well as capturing the unique flavor that 3.0 had. A 3.25 of sorts.
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JOE!
Smash Hero
Buffing everyone to match one charatcer's power makes no damn sense
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
the rent is too damn high
NTG
Smash Cadet
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Probably the best argument to nerf Fox that has ever been made
supascoot
Smash Apprentice
I agree, however I feel that what was ment by the other post was a little bit different.
We all know that the ratio between Buff:Nerf was very highly sided towards nerf in 3.5. This was for good reason though, as many of the design changes that characters needed were mostly something being too good or whatever you want to say about it. While this made for a better balanced game design wise, it left some characters with too little against other characters. I think the proposal is that the weaker characters need some buffs to be able to compete with those that were mostly unchanged.
This isn't really that unreasonable; even though the power gap is small in PM, its still noticeable when switching between fox and bowser or something. Even if you were to nerf fox, these characters would still do poorly because they aren't good. There are very few characters that are being held back by their bad matchups, most of them are "bad" because they are bad compared to the rest of the cast. Buffing them would help them more than just nerfing everyone else
eideeiit
Smash Ace
What PM characters have potential to someday be better than or in the same SS-tier as Fox? I'd say Mewtwo because teleport and tail, Lucas because DJC, magnet and snowballs and Wolf because lazers and shine into knee-like move with more range. Anyone else? Also please elaborate on these if you think they have it or why they don't. I don't know enough.
GabPR
Smash Lord
Nerf the "best" and a new best shall take his place, buff the "worse" and a new worse shall take his place.If they nerf fox and fix ic's and olimar what will there be left? Shall the masses be complacent? Shall people finally be satisfied? I say no. A new "dominating" character for people to argue about. A new "bad" charater (Bad is such a misued term at this point that It has lost all meaning) will arise beacause he does not have as much positive matchups as the other characters. 3.5 has dealt with most of the polarizing streanghts the other patches once had, and by next patch the remaining ones should be addressed. But as long sa there is a tier list, people will be looking at first and last spots, and will want to place them at the middle... which will continue a cycle that will never end. BUT that is just me speculating.
tl:dr After nerf fox and fix "bad" characters (no one is bad unless bugs), people should be complacent. But some will still complain anyways, I just hope its less.
tl:dr After nerf fox and fix "bad" characters (no one is bad unless bugs), people should be complacent. But some will still complain anyways, I just hope its less.
Jaedrik
Man-at-Arms-at-Keyboard
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Makes NO sense?
See: Brawl Minus.
Granted, it's quite silly, but it's also quite awesome. Therefore, it must make SOME sense.
CyberZixx
Smash Lord
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We've been here already. Last patch, Mewtwo, Lucas, Diddy and Pit were all at or above fox level. Look how that turned out. Everyone complained and got sick of seeing them dominate. So they were all nerfed. we need to give fox that treatment, got backtrack.
Foo
Smash Lord
I don't honestly think anyone is close to fox atm. Nobody will ever be as good as him until fox gets nerfed. There's lots of top tier characters, but I'd honestly call fox god-tier at this point. His balance of strengths and weaknesses is almost completely non-existent and his strengths are off the charts.
After nerfs and buffs happen again, sure there will be arguments for best character and people will complain about certain characters, but that is just human nature and I have NEVER seen a multiplayer game were everyone was like "yeah, this game is completely balanced." The goal isn't to stop people from complaining, it's to make a more balanced game. How much people complain is absolutely irrelevant, it's about how valid the complaints are.
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AuraMaudeGone
Smash Ace
Foo
Smash Lord
Link me to a multiplayer game forum where the devs can patch things and nobody is complaining about balance. (well, I guess it has to be PvP multiplayer)
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Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
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Lets just zss till she is as good as olimar
Then foo will stop
Then foo will stop
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AuraMaudeGone
Smash Ace
Skullgirls
There's that one "Eliza is broken" thread, but that settled down quickly.
On topic: Basing balance on one character isn't that dumb. Using current Fox as a baseline is. Imagine if it was Mario.
Foo
Smash Lord
umm... what?
idk, they have a tier list discussion thread, and people weren't putting everyone at equal tier.
"Does Eliza even have bad match-ups? She seems to win or go even in virtually ever MU of the game. Maybe Peacock?" and stuff like that. It's less, for sure, but it's still out there.
I was too funny not to lol
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
From a Twitch chat:
"Ike does Ganon levels of damage but with a DISJOINTED HITBOX"
From the same chat:
"Why isn't Marth the best character in Melee? What besides shine do the spacies have above him?"
Ah Twitch chats
"Ike does Ganon levels of damage but with a DISJOINTED HITBOX"
From the same chat:
"Why isn't Marth the best character in Melee? What besides shine do the spacies have above him?"
Ah Twitch chats
Its true. I still say it, why play Ganon when you can play sword ganon
D
Deleted member
Guest
Guys, I lost to a falcon today
falcons broken, new topic
falcons broken, new topic
I am exhausted after Fight Me IRL. What a difficult tourney. I had to fight Lunchablers, wonder if that was recorded or not. Oh well, mumblings from a near passed out guy
Edit: Falcon is op spread the message and pour out the confetti cause he's gonna ****in throw into knee!
Edit#2: I think Sethlon had it/got fed up with Melee and early loser's bracket entry for PM, he seemed enraged and ready to slaughter people later in PM. I'm glad I had the foresight to not have our set recorded, the beatdown I got deserves to never be spoken of again. PMBR nerf Sethlon
Edit: Falcon is op spread the message and pour out the confetti cause he's gonna ****in throw into knee!
Edit#2: I think Sethlon had it/got fed up with Melee and early loser's bracket entry for PM, he seemed enraged and ready to slaughter people later in PM. I'm glad I had the foresight to not have our set recorded, the beatdown I got deserves to never be spoken of again. PMBR nerf Sethlon
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D
Deleted member
Guest
roys broken, old topic
