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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
LOL I have no idea why that happens. I'd like it removed too.Ironically enough, our Puff bans DL vs Wario. Also Corkscrew is ****ing ********. I'm tired of getting hit by the weak hit and getting semi-meteored. @Strong Badam pls stop buffing ur character <3
WW was 100% created by some raging-boner Bowser player, there is no other explanation for the stage. I pray to suckerai that I don't face Bowser there each morning, as the sun rises and all is still peaceful in the world.
GabPR
Smash Lord
Personally I find 3.5 Sonic much more rewarding to play. In 3.0 he was really good, but in all honesty he had moves that were really risk free in a lot of the cast, set up kill combos across the stage, and then comeback. (watch Ripple vs Wizzrobe, while it is not bad to a character to have bad matchups... they should not be as one sided). It took away that "wow" factor to much of his gameplay and made it felt not so rewarding to do. He still has good combos, a good punish game, good recovery compared to the rest of the cast and a lot of interesting setups which I'm still learning about (many were available in 3.0, but some of his b moves were so polarizing that people did not bother to experiment and look further into his stuff). Thanks to some of his move being not as polarizing as before, In my country people are also finding Sonic to be much more tolerable and fun to fight again as well (I am the only Sonic here btw).
Oracle
Smash Master
In case yall didnt watch tloc last night, zelda is
BROOOOOKKKKEEEEEENNNNN
BROOOOOKKKKEEEEEENNNNN
Oh well, i tried.
Was a bit of a Longshot.
_Chrome
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
What do you guys think about G&W now??? Honestly seeing the changes i though he was going to be worse, but considering everything he can stand for his own now. Last week i placed 2nd on a big tournament here in Chile and i am not that good.
http://www.twitch.tv/usmash/b/596346689 <<< Around 8 hours 42 minutes, playing Winners semis and Winners Finals, then i play Losers Final around 9:33:00
http://www.twitch.tv/usmash/b/596346689 <<< Around 8 hours 42 minutes, playing Winners semis and Winners Finals, then i play Losers Final around 9:33:00
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Either a sarcastic or asinine one.
Marth is fine, he just requires some semblance of skill to use.
Altea77
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2014
- Messages
- 147
But Roy is better if both are played at a high level, right? I'm only asking because I used to be a Roy main, and i'm contemplating whether to bother picking him up again.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
My opinion on that count would be pretty irrelevant. The popular point of view right now is that Roy is better, which is pretty reasonable. Marth is still fine.
I don't see much point in playing both, regardless.
I don't see much point in playing both, regardless.
Foo
Smash Lord
I doubt too many people here will agree, but I think G&W is ridiculous this patch. He was decent last patch and received almost straight buffs where almost everyone, even olimar, got big nerfs. He has a really good combo game, stellar recovery, tons and tons of disjoint etc. He has his fair share of weaknesses, but not too many to keep him from being really good. He's also a major pain to play against if you don't know the matchup, because his hitboxes and animations are only loosely related.
That's the general consensus, but I'm not sure it's true. Marth has more range, more speed, better wavedash etc. but roy has MUCH better kill pressure, insane combos and matches up slightly better vs the higher tier characters imo. I personally have no trouble against roy, but struggle a lot against marth, but maybe I'm just bad.
Imo, could go either way, but roy is probably a tad better.
@
Frost | Odds
You mean not much point in one player using both, not anyone using either, right?
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Gnw with bacon that was actually useful in the way other projectiles are for approaching would be too stupid good. Right now he is strong though, just a lot of characters walk all over him with far better pressure/spacing games.
I love gnw, but if I wanted to play CC> dtilt the character, I'd play Roy and do 2x better
I love gnw, but if I wanted to play CC> dtilt the character, I'd play Roy and do 2x better
Roy is easier to play, and people like meaty hits instead of finesse. Roy's the kind of character where you can Sloppy Joe the other person and not always die.
You get in their face, press some buttons, hold down sometimes, random Fsmash here and there...
It's nasty, it's raw, undercooked and sloppy and just unspectacular on all fronts, and you're not sure what's happening but they are dying so you roll with it.
Playing Roy is kind of like that if you're not the top echelon of Roy players, and for whatever reason IT ATTRACTS PEOPLE! So not Kawaii, everyone should play Marth instead!
You get in their face, press some buttons, hold down sometimes, random Fsmash here and there...
It's nasty, it's raw, undercooked and sloppy and just unspectacular on all fronts, and you're not sure what's happening but they are dying so you roll with it.
Playing Roy is kind of like that if you're not the top echelon of Roy players, and for whatever reason IT ATTRACTS PEOPLE! So not Kawaii, everyone should play Marth instead!
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
Yeah, he lost a lot without the bacon walls he used to have, now i only see myself throwing Bacon for retreating rather approaching. I feel he is stronger this patch but still, a decent Space Animal could just faceroll over him.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
You mean like the bacon nerf, UpSmash damage/KOability nerf, Upsmash endlag nerf, and bucket recovery stalling nerf? And 9 nerf in the context of minor/negligible buffs to other still basically useless hammers lol. The only real "buff" he got was how the bucket works. It's deadly against every projectile instead of just most now.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
What even are projectiles
Use swords you frauds
Use swords you frauds
Foo
Smash Lord
Upsmash nerf isn't a big deal since that move wasn't really that useful anyway, bacon is a nerf but also has new uses now, 9 hammer nerf is nearly irrelevant especially since the other hammers were buffed slightly, and the bucket stall nerf isn't important because stalling with bucket barely helped your recovery and left you so vunerable that you were basically begging to swatted out of the air.
As for buffs, he got much more than a bucket buff.
Uptilt comes out 22% faster,
up air is a better early combo tool and can kill at high %s,
jab has slightly higher range
get up attack/rolls etc got buffed.
I'd actually say game and watch improved slightly from 3.02, which is a big deal compared almost everyone else being much worse. It's amplified when so much of what he struggled with was removed. Sure, bacon took a hit (but thank god that brainless spam !@#$ is gone), but it's still a pretty good projectile.
Eh, I don't think that's a fair comparison. I play both, and they feel almost nothing alike, though they have some similar attributes. It'd be like saying "why play ZSS when I can play Captain Falcon?"
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Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
But meta knight...
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
Upsmash nerf is a big deal, Dacus is indeed useful for GnW, its a combo if you read a Dthrow and it comboes from Dash Attack/Gatling, vs spacies you could do a Gatling and kill them at around 80%, which no longer happens.
9 Nerf is not irrelevant, is incredible relevant, now it only kills at most, 20% earlier than other more safe, not random options.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
Saying the usmash nerf doesn't matter is kind of shallow. On floatier characters that U-throw -> Nair doesn't work as a KO combo, G&W struggles to KO and DACUS was a powerful way to land them. Now it's worse and more punishable on whiff.
U-tilt still sucks.
U-air is actually worse; it stops comboing a lot earlier, it was really easy to do things like uthrow uair nair at KO percents to a lot of characters. It also doesn't beat CC at 0 anymore.
Bacon is actually garbage, I never use it unless someone is above me, meaning I've already won neutral and they're in a bad position, which isn't the purpose of projectiles in Smash. It was ONLY good because you could set up bacon walls that some characters couldn't deal with if you had ~2 seconds of time, which you didn't have against the fast characters anyway.
Rest of your points are fair, although his rolls and spotdodges are still very sub-par in PM.
U-tilt still sucks.
U-air is actually worse; it stops comboing a lot earlier, it was really easy to do things like uthrow uair nair at KO percents to a lot of characters. It also doesn't beat CC at 0 anymore.
Bacon is actually garbage, I never use it unless someone is above me, meaning I've already won neutral and they're in a bad position, which isn't the purpose of projectiles in Smash. It was ONLY good because you could set up bacon walls that some characters couldn't deal with if you had ~2 seconds of time, which you didn't have against the fast characters anyway.
Rest of your points are fair, although his rolls and spotdodges are still very sub-par in PM.
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Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
Shucking the corpses of your helpless minions at your enemies is pretty legit, yeah.why not use Projectiles AND swords (hammer)?
Ripple confirmed Bond villain.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Correct. Their MU spreads are too similar for that to be worth it if you want to place well.@
No...
Even Bond Villains have more respect for their minion's lives than Ripple does for his Waddles
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Foo
Smash Lord
I always see D3's recovery as something like this: http://youtu.be/wGuBTlJDki8?t=21s
@
Strong Badam
I didn't say it didn't matter, I said it wasn't a big deal. While upsmash wasn't an unviable move, it wasn't a great move. Maybe I haven't watched enough G&W, but I generally saw it used not even once per game.Uptilt being buffed matters at least as much as 9 hammer being nerfed. Frame 7 upward sweep can't be that bad.
While upair doesn't combo for as long, it combos super well at earlier %s. It's a trade off, but I have found the new upair to be better since it has next to no lag. As for CC, I don't see it being that relevant. Don't think you'd ever upair a grounded opponent unless they are on a platform above you, and if they are above you, why wouldn't the just shield? I don't see that being relevant outside of extreme circumstances.
As for the new bacon, I haven't played around with it too much, but it seems to be a decent approach. I've played against someone who occasionally jumps at me and bacons. The first bacon kept me from intercepting him, and the second one along with the flip hitbox hit my shield. I'm not positive, but it seemed like it was plus on shield. I can't say for sure because I haven't used it enough yet, but it seems good. It just serves a totally different purpose than it did before, and a different purpose than most projectiles in the game.
Yeah, his spotdodges, rolls etc. are sub-par, but they are better than they were last patch.
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Mr.Pickle
Smash Lord
Idk, I still think gdubs is pretty good, an extremely underrated character.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
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jtm94
Smash Lord
I don't know if you know this, but the new bacon being able to fast fall is usable in that sense. It's pretty dang good.