Tier List Speculation

[Rᴏb]

I'm also fairly certain G&W's upb still hits on frame 1...
pls no impeding nerfs

 

[Ripple]

grabs start on frame 0. no joke

 

[Foo]

grabs start on frame 0. no joke

how......?

 

[Lizalfos]

Tiers cement around the metagame. Uness every character has an equal number of good and bad matchups, we are always going to have like 5+ teirs. The PMDT is working with over 40 characters, remember that.

If you look at some of the more viable characters this patch, almost all have a solid projectile. Even Fox has a way to do damage without approaching, and most of the rest have a projectile that disrupts movement. The exceptions have great movement and approach options to get around said projectiles.

I think that as the meta progresses the top tiers will either have good projectiles or the rushdown to handle projectiles. I see Falcon, Gannon, Roy, Marth, and Jigglypuff all being mid tier or lower since they generally rely on good spacing in the neutral to create opportunities for punishes. Characters with good setups just create fewer of these opportunities.
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I thought that all frame data included frame zero: it's the frame the move was inputted. You input the shine frame 0 and it comes out frame 1.

 

[Ripple]

lol. grab animation was listed as starting on frame 0 in melee debug mode. everything else was frame 1

 

[Lizalfos]

lol. grab animation was listed as starting on frame 0 in melee debug mode. everything else was frame 1

So do they really start the frame you input them, or is it just an anomaly?

 

[Ripple]

just an anomaly

 

[Foo]

Thank god, I was about to have an existential crisis over this...

 

[DMG]

More proof that grabs are broken

I like grabs

I'm so glad Smash has them

 

[Deleted member]

I'd just like to throw out that one time on commentary, infinity told me
"Yeah, GnWs up B animation comes out frame 1 and the hitbox comes out frame 3"
I then very carefully told infinity how all animations start on the frame the move starts, and that the hitboxes are independent of that

 

[Zoa]

Just curious, but how about implementing an ammo system overheat for the spacie blasters? It'd force the spacies to choose when to camp, and punish them by forcing them to commit for using it too much in an alloted time. It'd kinda be like a soft nerf of sorts without really changing their play style all that much.

 

[MagnesD3]

Street Fighter is usually way more limited in mobility and freedom than Smash: comparing the ease of balancing the two I think is highly unfair. When you modify a throw, you have to factor in how that impacts opponents of varying weights and floatiness. When you change how a character edgeguards, you have a ton of different recovery choices to balance that against. The list of variables and concerns based on individual character traits (as the whole cast interacts with them and with stages), technically should be a couple magnitudes of scale greater for Smash.

I still think its very possible although difficult. Thankfully there is basically infinite time to fix this game unlike others.

 

[Ripple]

oh yeah, shameless plug but I'll be doing an ama on r/ssbpm tomorrow if you guys want to ask for my take on certain things

 

[Apollo Ali]

ya can u tell them im a good ddd ripple, thx

 

[DMG]

Ripple has integrity. He wouldn't lie just for u

 

[Apollo Ali]

dang guess i will have to do it the old fashioned way

spamming the top player by character thread

 

[JOE!]

Just curious, but how about implementing an ammo system overheat for the spacie blasters? It'd force the spacies to choose when to camp, and punish them by forcing them to commit for using it too much in an alloted time. It'd kinda be like a soft nerf of sorts without really changing their play style all that much.

Honestly, I'd just do it so that after X lasers they simply have to go through the laggy "put gun away" animation instead of being able to cancel

 

[mimgrim]

I think it would be a rather good thing if they just got rid of all cancel stuff on all projectiles. But that may just be me.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd just like to throw out that one time on commentary, infinity told me
"Yeah, GnWs up B animation comes out frame 1 and the hitbox comes out frame 3"
I then very carefully told infinity how all animations start on the frame the move starts, and that the hitboxes are independent of that

i like infinity, but every time he says something objective on the stream i'm pretty sure i disagree with it like 100% of the time.

this is how i feel about sonic. just watch it.

 

[kevinw0w]

i like infinity, but every time he says something objective on the stream i'm pretty sure i disagree with it like 100% of the time.

this is how i feel about sonic. just watch it.

Is it just me or is this song really catchy? Hahaha

 

[Frost | Odds]

i like infinity, but every time he says something objective on the stream i'm pretty sure i disagree with it like 100% of the time.

The reason sugar gives you energy is it's poison!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

i like infinity, but every time he says something objective on the stream i'm pretty sure i disagree with it like 100% of the time.

this is how i feel about sonic. just watch it.

Translation: Umbreon wants to have sex with sonic.

 

[GabPR]

i like infinity, but every time he says something objective on the stream i'm pretty sure i disagree with it like 100% of the time.

this is how i feel about sonic. just watch it.

I deduced umbreon's opinion on Sonic... is that he runs dumb.

On another note I thank you, I was looking for a new favorite song.

 

[supascoot]

i like infinity, but every time he says something objective on the stream i'm pretty sure i disagree with it like 100% of the time.

this is how i feel about sonic. just watch it.

I can't believe how PMDT didn't think of this. With a nerf to his taunt cancel mindgames and a animation nerf to his dash, sonic would go from SSS+ tier to ^F tier in two seconds flat. (Running there with his dumb run of course)

 

[PlateProp]

I still think we should push for a joke PM where every animation is dumb as ****

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I still think we should push for a joke PM where every animation is dumb as ****

Special brawl

 

[DMG]

Special brawl

Brawl was already special, let's not kid ourselves

 

[shairn]

Special Brawl: Give everybody Brawl Ganon run animation.

 

[Deleted member]

new special mode

2.5 sonic

 

[Strong Badam]

new special mode

2.5 sonic

oops

 

[xPos]

Roy is at least high tier with these changes

 

[MLGF]

Roy autocombos...
Roy autocombos everywhur

 

[Soft Serve]

CC Dtilt everywhere

 

[White Light]

Daily reminder that Zelda's high tier

 

[DrinkingFood]

There's only so much room in high tier make up your ****ing minds

 

[DMG]

Low Tier on the other hand welcomes all chars. Marth is in charge of that Pearly Gate

 

[Strong Badam]

There's only so much room in high tier make up your ****ing minds

high tier is around 25 chars imo

 

[PlateProp]

high tier is around 25 chars imo

It's just that there's top toer after that and it has like 17 moar characters

Such is the life of tierlist

 

[supascoot]

There's only so much room in high tier make up your ****ing minds

Atleast its better than everyone calling their character "Midtier". Make up your mind on if your character is good or bad instead of picking the middle option all the time. While midtier is a thing, judge a character based on its merits instead of just giving it buzzword

 

[PsionicSabreur]

CC Dtilt everywhere

If you can't actually deal with CC dtilt you couldn't deal with Roy in Melee so...