Stalled
Smash Apprentice
cc is significantly stronger in PM, so that doesn't quite follow. Also roy is probably top 8 imo.
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
PsionicSabreur
Smash Journeyman
CC functions as a mechanic exactly the same as Melee, and Roy's CC and dtilt haven't specifically been changed either. When you hear people saying CC is improved they're referring to (if they're correct) more characters having meaningful ground options to use out of it.
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PM Roy dtilt is a lot better than melee.
pm Roy also has actual followups from dtilt, unlike melee.
I never said it couldn't be dealt with, that doesn't mean its not silly and really good. I wasn't even complaining about Roy lol.
Stalled
Smash Apprentice
^^ Is that the case? I'd always heard that the knockback reduction from crouching is higher in PM than it was in melee.
Stalled
Smash Apprentice
Ah alright thanks.
PsionicSabreur
Smash Journeyman
Frame-wise and KB-wise, dtilt is unchanged. I guess the hitbox could be better but as I'm comparing the two it looks unchanged there as well. Followups are definitely stronger now, although in Melee it wasn't so much that dtilt didn't set up into things, as much as moves like fair being subpar at continuing the strings dtilt began (unless they fell fast enough to follow up w/ ground options).
To sum up my thoughts, I just find it kind of funny that back in Melee all the Roy mains are still going "well, we've got dtilt, that's one reason to not switch to Marth, right?" and then in PM the newest fad is suddenly "Roy's dtilt literally renders all other statistical weakness irrelevant on a macro level," which is possible, but it runs a lot deeper than objective goodness or subjective silliness. I've got plenty of other thoughts on that subject but I won't chase it.
At any rate, I'm not trying to bite your head off or anything, and I didn't think you were complaining about Roy from a standpoint of personal difficulty.
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I play diddy and fox, I can't complain about characters having silly traits
Except sonic and lucario, **** them
Except sonic and lucario, **** them
mimgrim
Smash Hero
And this is the sole reason I am considering playing him in 3.5, probably as a secondary. Because of the way people react to him.
Mera Mera
Smash Journeyman
I've heard that gravity is virtually irrelevant because you are only in the air for 1 frame when asdi makes you land. Which seems to make sense though I don't have a solid source to back that up.
steelguttey
mei is bei
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2014
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- 1,674
srsly the new zelda is ****ing stupid she gets follow ups from nothing. only real issues are only good oos option is usmash and thats laggy and too high
her new side b might be better than her old one **** is amazing
her new side b might be better than her old one **** is amazing
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
the tip has +20 BKB compared to Melee, all else equal.
I think DDD is the best character in the game, DDD players are just bad
Why aren't they picking the Waddle Doo Assist? Its a beam assist, beam assists are top tier.
Why aren't they picking the Waddle Doo Assist? Its a beam assist, beam assists are top tier.
steelguttey
mei is bei
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2014
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- 1,674
hidden doo is better imo
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
actually tho ddd is high tier and can camp like a sonofabitch and basically dictate everything the opponent does by walling out with range and disjoint but everybody minus ripple just isn't good enough
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
D3 is fun af to watch, and everything ripple does makes sense, but I don't understand how to play him at all. I get in game and it's all, 'durrr what doez green butan do?'
PsionicSabreur
Smash Journeyman
DDD's RAR game is hilarious. He runs so slowly but suddenly just teleports a whole body length with his run turnaround animation. Makes for some pretty great JC grabs or early fair against approaches, or an occasional bair/nair/dair in niche situations. I wouldn't call it the crux of his game by any means but its fun to use out of ignorance to his other stuff when I end up playing him in randoms or something.
Ehh
Melee Roy had really good follow ups on dtilt
Fsmash/grab on low % spacies, fair -> fsmash/grab on low percent semi FFers, nair/nB at mid-high percents
(God help you if you have to follow it up with fair though. The "dtilt -> fair -> try not to get punished on hit" struggle is real)
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I like the part in PM where, Roy's game is Dtilt -> Be a vastly superior character to his Melee version.
And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.
And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.
D
Deleted member
Guest
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do we really need to state l-cancels
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Do we really need L-cancels in general
...
...
jtm94
Smash Lord
Talking about Roy in melee is soooooo good.
So Project M.... Is Samus actually good or only on paper? Because she haunts my dreams almost like Sheik.
I saw this man Chevy tear up Anther and the entire Netplay bracket with Samus, and other than ESAM that's the only time I've seen the character win in PM. Her recovery is sooooo good.
So Project M.... Is Samus actually good or only on paper? Because she haunts my dreams almost like Sheik.
I saw this man Chevy tear up Anther and the entire Netplay bracket with Samus, and other than ESAM that's the only time I've seen the character win in PM. Her recovery is sooooo good.
Samus has a stricly worse recovery than she did in melee, without wall tethers for mixups it's extremely linear.
I used to think samus was sleeper op but I don't think she's anything special anymore. Her on stage game is still pretty strong though, and she deals with pressure well.
I used to think samus was sleeper op but I don't think she's anything special anymore. Her on stage game is still pretty strong though, and she deals with pressure well.
Foo
Smash Lord
She's a MASSIVE noobslayer imo. It's very easy to be successful with her, especially at lower levels of play. Just spam missiles and if your opponent happens to get close enough to punish you, hold down and mash C-stick and now your opponent is offstage and facing the wrong way. If they do land a solid hit on you, mash A to keep them from comboing you.
At top level play, this doesn't work because excellent punish games is what separates good and great players. However, before that point, it seems nearly impossible to punish samus for extemely easy and brainless options.
However, all that being said, she's still definitely high tier. She just has too many good tools, is really hard to combo, is really safe etc. Nothing to get excited over, she kinda fills the same spot as link did in 3.02.
jtm94
Smash Lord
If there's a stage with a wall she can pretty much always make it to that wall via bombs and then she can wall jump b-reverse stuff kind of like Lucario to climb walls. That's definitely really good along with her tether still being extraordinarily far and her extreme weight.
Her tether also seeks edge now making her recovery better on stages like Battlefield in PM because grabbing walls on that stage is null. Same with Smashville. Saying it's strictly worse is a reach, and even if it is it's so good that I deem any loss to her recovery necessary.
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Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
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- 736
Her recovery is worse, but not strictly. I'm fairly certain that you can get farther off of max distance bomb jumps. And if she can get to a wall, the b-reverse charge shot climb let's her gain nearly infinite height if performed properly. That said, I don't know for sure where I'd place her. I see everyone putting her at like number 2 next to Fox, and I can't agree with that. She has a handful of pretty bad matchups that I think will always keep her out of top tier. I'd say at the lowest she's high-mid though.
Foo
Smash Lord
PandaPanda Senketsu
Smash Journeyman
Aye man he didn't tear up Anther, ma boy was rusty from playing dat smash 4.
jtm94
Smash Lord
Speak of the devil..
What are Samus' MUs looking like now?
No way I'd place her 2nd, that's reserved for Sheik. Her movement still isn't good, and that's why people say Zelda is bad *jokes*
He plays that game.... He got tore up even more then.
Must have been trying to perfect pivot too hard.
Chevy
Smash Ace
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- Mar 12, 2014
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- 736
I'ts hard to say, I don't get to play a lot of different top level players. The only matchups that I really find to be easy are Bowser, DK, Gandondorf, and Charizard. Bowser is a little harder in 3.5 with his mobility buffs, and he can still kill her off of one dash attack or Koopa Klaw above 40 percent, without good DI. She still definitely wins the matchup, but it's not completely free. I think she beats Kirby, Ness, and GnW, but you have to camp them out and never let them in, because they can all combo Samus pretty well. Meanwhile, she has a bad time with Marth, Toon Link, and maybe Ike. Mewtwo is still bad, and R.O.B. is absolutely atrocious. I also don't like Mario or Zelda but I'm more willing to believe it's my own incompetence at dealing with them. She does alright against spacies, probably close to even on either end. I feel like she probably slightly beats or goes even with just about everyone else on virtue of being a solid character all around.
Let me reiterate that I don't really have enough good matchup experience with the majority of the roster to make super informed observations, I guess it's just speculation.
Paradoxium
Smash Master
Samus is like the only character who can damage you up and take your stock with just projectiles, TOP TIER FOR SURE
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I think that Mario still beats Samus probably. It wasn't the easiest MU in Melee either, or so I have heard.
Not entirely sure about GnW vs Samus. This is not a MU I have much experience in.
Not entirely sure about GnW vs Samus. This is not a MU I have much experience in.
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feels awful for G&W from what i've played of it
let me bucket missiles i promise it'll be fun
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DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Speaking of GnW, his bucket kinda breaks doubles now, doesn't it
Like fox fills it stupid quick with lasers, which now does the same damage as three of any other bucketed projectile
GnW already had isolated instances of questionable design, especially the RNG kill move and frame 1 escape option/recovery move/combo extender and starter. And then I guess instead of fixing bucket's odd properties they just made it stupid for all projectiles of a certain kind and kept it useless for the rest. Not that he's an exceptionally good character outside those things, it's just weird they haven't been addressed for the sake of consistent or good design like 99% of the other things that are changed in the game.
Like fox fills it stupid quick with lasers, which now does the same damage as three of any other bucketed projectile
GnW already had isolated instances of questionable design, especially the RNG kill move and frame 1 escape option/recovery move/combo extender and starter. And then I guess instead of fixing bucket's odd properties they just made it stupid for all projectiles of a certain kind and kept it useless for the rest. Not that he's an exceptionally good character outside those things, it's just weird they haven't been addressed for the sake of consistent or good design like 99% of the other things that are changed in the game.
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mimgrim
Smash Hero
It's also weird how they haven't addressed the frame 1 hitbox that is JCable a couple frames later that is also an escape option, pressure option, combo starter, combo extender, recovery staller, and reflector.
But we don't talk about that.BcuzMelee
But we don't talk about that.
D
Deleted member
Guest
whats obvious to you isn't obvious to everyone and a lot of people read this thread
so basically yes