Tier List Speculation

[Juushichi]

this thread is golden. i'm excited for 3.5. : )

 

[Tagxy]

Of course it wasnt about distance it was about providing a mix-up. Also QA is extremely safe for landing on stage regardless, unless theres further nerfs to QA. And dont trivialize its abilities in platform movement. For some reason everyone has to have an opinion on this move now when they dont understand it.

I do agree that pika was bad before and may be bad after as well, but that wasnt the point as you can see by suggestions that it just be removed altogether, what is left now is what qualifies as a gimmick.

 

[didds]

I think they nerfed QAC so you would stop playing him
PMDT is afraid of you playing a competent character

Don't let them hold you down, play fox.
That way you'll have a character with a good dash dance, usmash, shffl nair, tech chases, uthrow followups, and more importantly, no lame gimmicks which only provide the illusion of more options.

 

[Foo]

Wait wait wait... People used to think Lucas 3.0 dair was useless?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!

Did that use the move once to test it, or just comdemn it because it's different. I'd imagine if they tried it even once, they''d be like "This is hella busted"

I think they nerfed QAC so you would stop playing him
PMDT is afraid of you playing a competent character

Don't let them hold you down, play fox.
That way you'll have a character with a good dash dance, usmash, shffl nair, tech chases, uthrow followups, and more importantly, no lame gimmicks which only provide the illusion of more options.

inb4 3.5 pach notes

Fox: Shine removed

(kappa)

 

[Boiko]

I sure hope they gave Ness a buff in the neutral so he can actually approach! I'd rather his moveset/frame data not be static.

 

[Foo]

I sure hope they gave Ness a buff in the neutral so he can actually approach! I'd rather his moveset/frame data not be static.

I hope they nerfed PK fire and buffed that to compensate. I don't want Ness to be a bad character, it's just that PK fire is PK Infuriating.

 

[Phan7om]

Today will be, im calling it, more salty than when people realized ridley wasnt in smash 4 as a playable character. Cant wait!

Edit: I just switched from Onyx theme to PM theme... dayumn this looks pretty!

 

[GP&B]

I think the site page for Ness says it doesn't activate on shields anymore but does more damage overall.

 

[Foo]

I'm tempted to make to make the very first speculative tier list the moment the patch drops. I know how much you guys love people who do that.


@ GP&B Puuuuuuuuuurfect

 

[mimgrim]

Edit: I just switched from Onyx theme to PM theme... dayumn this looks pretty!

Ewwwwwww. Go back to Onyx. Onyx master race.

3.5 when.

 

[Deleted member]

buddy I already deal with one snobbish pokemon-name on this board and at least umbreon has some integrity in that pitch-black soul of his

you'd be dark and spiteful too if you used smashboards for 12 years. hell, look at strongbad

I already quit him during 3.02 man. And everyone and their mother has a good melee fox, when youre in a region I'm from you learn to have a higher standard for good.

i mean, get good

 

[Boiko]

I hope they nerfed PK fire and buffed that to compensate. I don't want Ness to be a bad character, it's just that PK fire is PK Infuriating.

Yeah, it does more damage up front, doesn't activate on shields.

 

[Jaedrik]

I CANNOT WAIT FOR DORF DOMINATION

edit: return 64 uptilt kirby kthx
YOSHOY PERRY RETURN PLS TOO? :O

edit 2: I just read the last page and LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[RelaxAlax]

As a Ganon main, I hope there isn't the oncoming of Ganon mains.

Unless he's broken, but I don't think so. Ganon is still Ganon no matter how many bells and whistles he has.

 

[King Bee]

Everyone's going to hop on the bandganon for a few days out of hype at his new stuff, but they won't end up sticking around. If he's good now, you might get a few cowards people who always wanted to play him but didn't because he was bad.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Wait wait wait... People used to think Lucas 3.0 dair was useless?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!

Did that use the move once to test it, or just comdemn it because it's different. I'd imagine if they tried it even once, they''d be like "This is hella busted"



inb4 3.5 pach notes

Fox: Shine removed

(kappa)

Burnsy legit called the move "worthless" because "SDI ruined its follow-up potential"

... Yeup

 

[RelaxAlax]

Didn't everyone think Sonic was bad in 3.02 when it first launched?

Boy ... how wrong they were

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

RIP LUCAS PLAYERS LMAOOOOOOOO

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

hahahaha lunchables made this thread entertaining again

 

[trash?]

when 2.6 first came out, most people were saying that meta knight had no good recovery, and that his most broken option was his fsmash.

actually I'm just gonna throw out a quote from myself circa july of last year, in response to someone telling me that "work around problems with your godly toolset" is a bad mentality:

it's also true. if you can't be bothered to deal with the technical requirements to deal with otherwise problematic situations, don't play that character

nearly all of the "janky problems" people are whining about with MK comes from the fact that they don't want to learn the solutions to these problems

MK's always been utterly fantastic, but I guess there wasn't a good MK player in MDVA until recently soooooo

 

[Frost | Odds]

Oh my God, that tier list is somehow almost more infuriating than the first one.

EDIT: posted in the wrong thread. Who cares, FraudTournaments

Upper-mid tier: Roy, Zelda, Kirby

Seriously?

Bowser> Lucario, ROB,

a full tier above

Yoshi, Luigi, Squirtle, Ganondorf, Peach, Olimar, King Dedede

never mind that he loses horribly to every single one of those characters, with the *possible* exceptions of peach and d3

CT: please get your **** straight instead of spreading this unbelievable ignorance

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Wait, Peach and D3 don't ROFLstomp Bowser?

 

[B.W.]

Um, I'd disgree. I never thought that qac buffed his recovery, expecially not when he was far away, it helped by making situations where he was just off stage even safer, because he could sweetspot from any angle as well as land laglessly of the stage.

On stage I don't think it changes anything besides platform movement, pika isn't a camper and tries to stay in close and keep pressure up, he doesn't need or use a tool like qac from the distance of a full double up b, a single up b used diagonally is about the spacing he wants to keep when he isn't nair ing past shield in most match ups anyway.

Qac nerf don't really change anything. If they did then it's not the character being bad now, it's you centering your whole game plan around one "gimmicky" mechanic and not adapting.

I don't even play Pikachu, this doesn't hurt me at all. But it QAC did buff his recovery, whether you thought it or not. Being able to get back on stage with 0 lag from touching the ground with his Up-B was a buff to his recovery. He could get on stage and immediately go back to neutral or go on the offense.

QAC was capable of giving Pikachu a little bit of combo extension because you could double QA down and toward and opponent after a hit and it was faster than fast falling sometimes.

QAC didn't help Pikachu with anything he was having trouble with though, he really doesn't need it.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Wait, Peach and D3 don't ROFLstomp Bowser?

They probably do, but our local Peach and D3 players disdain/are bad at PM. From what I've seen, Peach has a bit of a hard time dealing with properly spaced fairs, and he can also dash attack through turnips.

D3 probably beats Bowser something like 65:35 (which, as far as Bowser's matchups go, is relatively good :/), but he is pretty huge, which makes him pretty easy to grab with the Klaw.

 

[1FD]

Didn't everyone think Sonic was bad in 3.02 when it first launched?

Upon release of each PM version to date we've had our local senseis play like 2 matches with Sonic and basically say something like 'too good' and not play the char much anymore
Every. Single. Patch
Less see how 3.5 got diss

 

[Deleted member]

canon, mk fsmash actually was broken because of the shield pushback at the time

 

[1FD]

Sopo is so op

 

[Tagxy]

when 2.6 first came out, most people were saying that meta knight had no good recovery, and that his most broken option was his fsmash.

actually I'm just gonna throw out a quote from myself circa july of last year, in response to someone telling me that "work around problems with your godly toolset" is a bad mentality:


MK's always been utterly fantastic, but I guess there wasn't a good MK player in MDVA until recently soooooo

People also said to "work around" the good recoveries in PM and reached deeper than Ive ever seen to try and defend their existence...until they were going to get nerfed and everyone suddenly turned against them. I agree with the general principle of work with what you have, but this isnt about that. Sort of agree with B.W. in that sense, I do think it assisted pika but not in anything he was particularly hurting in. It just "felt" good and fit with pikachus QA and design intuitively. He would be ok without it, but right now it just seems counter-intuitive. In any case dont assume I dont try, I made it to the top of my new regions PR with pika regardless against many good PM exclusive players, then switched when I realized MK was just easier. I complain about him but also still use pika quite a bit when I play and will still probably use him more and better than probably anyone else in this thread making comments on him.

 

[Strong Badam]

I'm curious what your regions PR is. Got a link?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'm curious what your regions PR is. Got a link?

No, but they do have a Marth.

*ba - dum ...*

I'll see myself out.

 

[Foo]

No, but they do have a Marth.

*ba - dum ...*

I'll see myself out.

 

[Frost | Odds]

I'm not sure whether I agree with tagxy (and certainly can't verify his claims), but can confirm that It is *really* goddamn annoying when people tell you to "just adapt" when you've already done more research on your character than pretty much anyone else, anywhere. In some matchups, and some situations, there's just no right answer. It's pretty telling when the top players of a given character get better results with other characters with whom they've got much less practice.

Pikachu and Bowser should both be much, much better than they were due to the context of the new metagame, but I guess time will tell. I'm way too hype to even begin to complain -- the pmdt seems pretty on top of this stuff.

 

[Tagxy]

Messaged strong bad regarding his request

Yeah QA stuff aside Im still going to try pika, he might turn out well with the recovery nerfs.

 

[Frost | Odds]

pika might turn out well with the recovery nerfs.

"might"

 

[steelguttey]

Maybe I am crazy, but I think Olimar is incredibly under rated... In PM I feel like he can build damage so easy on opponent, and take so little damage, with basic strategy throwing his pikmin with side special, then spamming dSmash it is so hard to punish olimar users, it hits both sides, with so little lag, I know his recovery is not the best and he is gimpable, but it is so hard to get in on a good defensive olimar.

nah dude he sucks

 

[Deleted member]

No, but they do have a Marth.

*ba - dum ...*

I'll see myself out.

edit: it really works LOL

 

[GHNeko]

Today will be, im calling it, more salty than when people realized ridley wasnt in smash 4 as a playable character. Cant wait!

Edit: I just switched from Onyx theme to PM theme... dayumn this looks pretty!

there's a project m theme?

oh ****

this **** looks pretty

 

[Deleted member]

Oh my god, coming home and seeing all these likes I'm getting

if I could turn in my smashboards likes from this thread into money I'd be RICH AS ****

3.5 hype

 

[Ghirahilda]

Oh my god, coming home and seeing all these likes I'm getting

if I could turn in my smashboards likes from this thread into money I'd be RICH AS ****

3.5 hype

*See the rich phrase and look at your avatar*

Makes sense

 

[JOE!]

So, a tangent: I think the "fatties" are more glass cannons than what we usually think of glass cannons in smash.

They hit super hard (usually), but have the tendency to be demolished when they are hit: everybody can combo the big characters back and forth with whatever they want. Often, some combos only seem to work on the bigger folk, coupled with often questionable neutrals to avoid stuff is where I feel the "glass" comes in compared to more evasive types.