• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Tier List Speculation

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
Well Yoshi is pretty solid as is. If he was a bit less jank (mostly his grab) and had at least one recovery mix up other than not jumping and dying then who knows lol.
SERIOUSLY! lol. Yoshi had so many great things about him but the bad aspects of his character were devastatingly bad. I thought of giving him some kind of Wings on his side-b once but that Idea ended up going to pit. Perhaps give him a tether grab with his tongue? or Maybe give him the ability to regain a jump after he side-b's(which was something I saw on a test build like...over a year ago but idk if they stayed with it). He also needs better OoS options without getting Jump OoS. Jump OoS on Yoshi would be RIGGED!


Well I second giving him either more air or ground speed. But what he really needs is better aerials.
true, His aerial design in melee was pretty piss poor.

How is Yoshi good as is? He's not in the game! And he's been supremely mediocre in every game.
He means his melee design, and honestly If you've seen or played a decent yoshi you'd know he's not actually that bad. His placing is largely exaggerated do to the fact that he can almost never beat a sheik ever and since Sheik was the most popular character in the game at one point characters like Pikachu, and Yoshi were branded for a long time as extremely bad. Something that is only recently starting to become uncoiled.
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Just imagine the untapped potential of double jump mind games. When recovering from off stage, simply do not jump and die. Confuse the opponent. Yoshi would be broken imo and I'm glad he's not in PM /serious
 

#HBC | Joker

Space Marine
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
3,864
Location
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
NNID
HBCJoker
3DS FC
1864-9780-3232
How is giving yoshi a shield mechanic, that literally every other character in the game already has, rigged? I'm pretty sure he's getting his brawl upb, so that + being able to jump out of his damn shield would make him a perfectly viable character.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
How is giving yoshi a shield mechanic, that literally every other character in the game already has, rigged? I'm pretty sure he's getting his brawl upb, so that + being able to jump out of his damn shield would make him a perfectly viable character.
Because Yoshi is like...invincible with his DJC. Imagine him being able to spam that **** lol.
 

hamyojo

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
551
Location
DFW
lol, I'm down for god tier yoshi, but what makes you think that'll be the case?
Nothing, I just think a broken Yoshi would be fun.
Be careful how you throw around "we". Especially when it comes to characters like Snake, and Lucas.
I meant "we" as the P:M community. There aren't as many Lucas or Snake mains as, like, Sonic or Bowser.


Also give the first frame of Yoshi's shield a hit box and allow him to jump out of it.
Then make it spawn PK Fires and have his roll have a Sonic down b hitbox, then you've got a real character!
 

Professor Pro

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
10,261
Location
England, South London
If there were more Snake mains like you in the US, he'd be top tier for sure haha. <3 your Snake.

lol <3 Thanks

I wish there were more Snake mains, just for the character exposure and also to help me learn off of another style :(

Still I be loving that Charizard of yours, I thought you were gonna stay maining Ike and originally didn't like the thought of the transfer but I really like what you do and show with Charizard more than with your Ike if i'm honest

Three <3 <3 <3 for you :awesome:

I chuckled a great deal. Idk if Snake is a top tier or not but I know he's at least decent in PM. His lack of Aerial mobility I feel will start to hurt him down the road though when characters get overall better combo designs. However, I've already seen snakes escape routes for such things and they are pretty solid so who knows.
It's more his approach game and getting in rather than his aerial mobility which is his weakness.
I was only really trolling with the Top Tier comment, though I STILL wouldn't say he isn't, I don't really have tier list in my head but enjoy reading the discussions time to time and seeing people's opinion on Snake lol.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
It's more his approach game and getting in rather than his aerial mobility which is his weakness.
I was only really trolling with the Top Tier comment, though I STILL wouldn't say he isn't, I don't really have tier list in my head but enjoy reading the discussions time to time and seeing people's opinion on Snake lol.

Snake approaching? When do you ever see that :D? Honestly that does hurt him too but...he's so good at a distance and so....annoying to deal with most of the time I just say **** it and charge him. Although I doubt that will get him by some of his harder Match-ups.

Still, I think Snake is pretty solid. I currently have him at 15th Which is still A-tier on my list ;).
 

Professor Pro

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
10,261
Location
England, South London
Snake approaching? When do you ever see that :D? Honestly that does hurt him too but...he's so good at a distance and so....annoying to deal with most of the time I just say **** it and charge him. Although I doubt that will get him by some of his harder Match-ups.

Still, I think Snake is pretty solid. I currently have him at 15th Which is still A-tier on my list ;).
A lot of people intuitive believe that Snake camp/not approach game is good and that's how he should be played, but it's really not effective unless fishing for a kill at high percents is why a lot of people can't play or don't understand Snake's gameplay, i've still never seen a successful Snake who's style is based around not approaching.

His projectiles (grenades/nikita/kinda C4 lol) don't have the speed and effectiveness like Toon Link or Link to play that way, it just temporarily puts the opponents in a defensive position without much benefit except being annoying and creating a wall, you need to actually abuse Snake's stronger aspects which is his grab game and C4 and combos from grabs which is needed by approaching to be good with him.

I've said this loads of times in general and in the Snake thread, that I actually want to see a Snake play effectively without approaching, just because I see loads of people think that's how he should be played, but never seen it be successful lol.

In short, approaching is absolutely necessary with Snake lol
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
A lot of people intuitive believe that Snake camp/not approach game is good and that's how he should be played, but it's really not effective unless fishing for a kill at high percents is why a lot of people can't play or don't understand Snake's gameplay, i've still never seen a successful Snake who's style is based around not approaching.

His projectiles (grenades/nikita/kinda C4 lol) don't have the speed and effectiveness like Toon Link or Link to play that way, it just temporarily puts the opponents in a defensive position without much benefit except being annoying and creating a wall, you need to actually abuse Snake's stronger aspects which is his grab game and C4 and combos from grabs which is needed by approaching to be good with him.

I've said this loads of times in general and in the Snake thread, that I actually want to see a Snake play effectively without approaching, just because I see loads of people think that's how he should be played, but never seen it be successful lol.

In short, approaching is absolutely necessary with Snake lol
I admit it's one thing you do differently then other snakes I've seen/Play. Typically they just play like **** until you play like a bigger ***. Then they are usually ****ed. Snake does have some means of getting in but....they are very...precise moments that can only be set up using his tools at a distance first...which does put him at a disadvantage against some.

I'm curious, What changes (if any) would you have made to snake?
 

#HBC | Joker

Space Marine
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
3,864
Location
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
NNID
HBCJoker
3DS FC
1864-9780-3232
A lot of people intuitive believe that Snake camp/not approach game is good and that's how he should be played, but it's really not effective unless fishing for a kill at high percents is why a lot of people can't play or don't understand Snake's gameplay, i've still never seen a successful Snake who's style is based around not approaching.

His projectiles (grenades/nikita/kinda C4 lol) don't have the speed and effectiveness like Toon Link or Link to play that way, it just temporarily puts the opponents in a defensive position without much benefit except being annoying and creating a wall, you need to actually abuse Snake's stronger aspects which is his grab game and C4 and combos from grabs which is needed by approaching to be good with him.

I've said this loads of times in general and in the Snake thread, that I actually want to see a Snake play effectively without approaching, just because I see loads of people think that's how he should be played, but never seen it be successful lol.

In short, approaching is absolutely necessary with Snake lol
I agree with that. When I first picked up snake, I tried to play him all campy like Brawl snake, and had no success. I'm still not very good with him, but I saw a considerable improvement when I started going in with fair, and chasing down those grabs
 

KayB

Smash Master
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
3,977
Location
Seoul, South Korea
A lot of people intuitive believe that Snake camp/not approach game is good and that's how he should be played
I've never really understood why people thought this. I mean as soon as you pick up Snake and play against someone, you'll immediately see that he's not a very campy character. Even on paper, Snake as a campy character doesn't make much sense either. His nikita has a slow start-up and is really only useful for edgeguarding aside, his grenades aren't nearly effective enough to keep away an opponent consistently without leaving himself wide open, and his C4 is rather useless unless used as an edgeguard or planted on an opponent.

On the other hand, he has an excellent grab game, being able to chain grab certain characters and/or combo into a planted C4, an excellent Oos option as well as a good GTFO jab option, great aerials if used properly, and of course the ability to plant C4 on the bodies of your opponent.

Unless baiting opponents also counts as camping. Then I'm completely wrong; that's something that Snake is very good at once he plants his C4.
 

Professor Pro

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
10,261
Location
England, South London
I admit it's one thing you do differently then other snakes I've seen/Play. Typically they just play like ***s until you play like a bigger ***. Then they are usually ****ed. Snake does have some means of getting in but....they are very...precise moments that can only be set up using his tools at a distance first...which does put him at a disadvantage against some.

I'm curious, What changes (if any) would you have made to snake?
His approach game is bad, by the fact that he can make it hard for people to approach gim and when he does get in his great punish game from grabs, mines and stuck C4 which is a great aspect of Snake.

Also I am part of the PMBR and have been since v2.1 so I can't really talk about any changes I would like to or have made lol :awesome:
I've never really understood why people thought this. I mean as soon as you pick up Snake and play against someone, you'll immediately see that he's not a very campy character. Even on paper, Snake as a campy character doesn't make much sense either. His nikita has a slow start-up and is really only useful for edgeguarding aside, his grenades aren't nearly effective enough to keep away an opponent consistently without leaving himself wide open, and his C4 is rather useless unless used as an edgeguard or planted on an opponent.

On the other hand, he has an excellent grab game, being able to chain grab certain characters and/or combo into a planted C4, an excellent Oos option as well as a good GTFO jab option, great aerials if used properly, and of course the ability to plant C4 on the bodies of your opponent.

Unless baiting opponents also counts as camping. Then I'm completely wrong; that's something that Snake is very good at once he plants his C4.
Pretty much all of this.
And no I wouldn't count baiting as camping lol.

I get upset when I see people on smashboards showing that they clearly understand the fundamentals of the character but never upload videos :glare:

MORE SNAKE VIDS!!!
 

KayB

Smash Master
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
3,977
Location
Seoul, South Korea
I get upset when I see people on smashboards showing that they clearly understand the fundamentals of the character but never upload videos :glare:

MORE SNAKE VIDS!!!
Honestly the only things you would see for me is just planting C4 on someone, throwing them into a mine, and then activating the C4 sending them into the stratosphere. Though I have done some lol things with the nikita haha
 

#HBC | Joker

Space Marine
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
3,864
Location
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
NNID
HBCJoker
3DS FC
1864-9780-3232
I don't know if I'll be able to look at this game in any serious light if Yoshi gets his limited Brawl egg toss angles.
I really just meant that he'd get that little hop while tossing the egg, so he can hold onto his doublejump when recovering and use the armor on it when he's actually going on stage.

I never really thought about the angles. I just remember not liking yoshi very much in Brawl cuz he couldn't kill.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,232
Location
Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
I think some aspects of Brawl Yoshi are redeemable, but his nerfs into the game are definitely really weird. Like, Sakurai, seriously his D-smash wasn't that good in the first place.

The weirdest thing is his F-smash hitbox coming out so late into the animation and only hitting in front of him rather than through the entire head arc.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I hope project m yoshi sucks because losing to yoshi is supposed to feel terrible.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
I hope project m yoshi sucks because losing to yoshi is supposed to feel terrible.
Will you stop with the "supposed to" posts man? It's a new game technically...sort of...well at least half-way. Perhaps when it's done Losing to yoshi will be normal and losing to Marth will be an upset?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
it's a joke. the joke is that yoshi sucks. therefore, expecting him being a bad character with no real basis other than prior games is a form of exaggeration, which is funny. because exaggerations are funny and i made one. ha ha.

seriously though i hope he sucks.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
it's a joke. the joke is that yoshi sucks. therefore, expecting him being a bad character with no real basis other than prior games is a form of exaggeration, which is funny. because exaggerations are funny and i made one. ha ha.

seriously though i hope he sucks.
"It's a joke" "seriously though I hope he sucks"

I LO ****ING L'd!

If he's been mediocre/bad in every game so far then I think he deserves to be top tier right? I think all of the original cast that hasn't yet been god tier deserve to be beat mode right? right? **** YEAH I'm right!? They paid their ****ing dues!

Samus/Yoshi for OMFG BROKEN TIER!
 

The_NZA

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
1,979
The joke is played out and its been made about ness as well. time to retire it.
 

The_NZA

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
1,979
Hey guys i got 2nd with ness at the last tourney, i dropped the ball against nazo in Grand Finals, i usually beat him but he got me that time.

Here are some videos of my ness.

WF vs Yummy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdq_ILL5AdM&list=PLUlQZqWo6xoSOTA0LmxvnwCw7fDKOJ4me

GF set 1 vs nazo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaS7Cz-sqU

GF set 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmdai-WhHNE&list=PLUlQZqWo6xoSOTA0LmxvnwCw7fDKOJ4me

My ness will break the barriers :)
Dude, CAN YOU POST YOUR BRSTMS/tracklist!? They are so so sick.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Ike is fine imo.
Lucario got nerfed a bit too hard maybe. Not that I care about him. He's such a ****.

***?

Ass!?!

Dang it stop blocking my words! He's such a troublesome douche
 

Spiffykins

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
547
Ike is fine imo.
Lucario got nerfed a bit too hard maybe. Not that I care about him. He's such a ****.

***?

***!?!

Dang it stop blocking my words! He's so amazing that he makes me self conscious, seriously who can compete with those hairy legs and paw spikes
Fixed.
 

Sanity's_Theif

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Messages
620
Location
Bristol, Rhode Island
Ike is fine imo.
Lucario got nerfed a bit too hard maybe. Not that I care about him. He's such a ****.

***?

***!?!

Dang it stop blocking my words! He's such a troublesome douche
I haven't tried them out till recently, but I think they could do with some of their 2.1 traits, I think 2.1 Ike had to get nerfed somewhat but not so much, I don't think he was better than Fox or Falco really, honestly, they're just not as fun to play anymore, has anyone really put a lot of time into them in 2.5?
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
Ike feels better to me in 2.5 than he did in 2.1 honestly. I like that he's not mindnumbingly easy to play anymore and he just feels more intuitive. It's not about how good he was, it was the design more-so.

Lucario I still feel is pretty good, but kind of feels like a one trick pony(press b after everything).
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
Lucario still feel like he belongs in Project Street Fighter to me. I'm not even sure how to take him personally. I think it's good that they made some of the stupid stuff about him more difficult but...what he got in return....Just doesn't feel equal.

As for Ike, I always had the position that he needed both Nerfs and Buffs......he got the Nerfs.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,232
Location
Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
Ike feels better to me in 2.5 than he did in 2.1 honestly. I like that he's not mindnumbingly easy to play anymore and he just feels more intuitive. It's not about how good he was, it was the design more-so.

Lucario I still feel is pretty good, but kind of feels like a one trick pony(press b after everything).
I sort of agree about Ike. I feel he's a bit away from complete but he feels a lot more like an actual character by having a usable dash dance. I can still think of a more intuitive way for his side B to be designed, and I've always thought he needed buffs, but if I have an opinion about something I'm just being an entitled troll that pays off devs to inflate the value of my bad opinions.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
I think Ike is just a victim of his own design. His hitboxes were just....so dumb in 2.1 It would have done him so good to make some of his moves faster but perhaps less powerful. I think time will tell if he's truly not good though. Since the only people left using him in 2.5 are those who actually think about what they are doing during the game.
 
Top Bottom