coincidentally, a DDD size is also known as an F
hmmm.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
hmmm.
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
And that uair
#doglike
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
I thought this made a lot of sense
Pit's a beast but I'm not really digging how anything besides parts of dair, maybe the tip of fair feels on shield
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
Prejudices against text walls are common in these boards though
jtm94
Smash Lord
As Zero said at PM Showdown 3.02: Pit's neutral sucks so I just trained really hard to GET IN when I land a hit.
I feel like a lot of chars are very similar to this in how they can just GO IN. I've seen Pink Fresh just get ridiculous around the world combos with Lucas for entire stocks. I've seen aMSa crush souls with Lucario around entire stages. I've even seen Nintendude get huge combos with GnW. The characters in this game are mad scary yo.
I feel like a lot of chars are very similar to this in how they can just GO IN. I've seen Pink Fresh just get ridiculous around the world combos with Lucas for entire stocks. I've seen aMSa crush souls with Lucario around entire stages. I've even seen Nintendude get huge combos with GnW. The characters in this game are mad scary yo.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
Yeah Lucas and Lucario exactly work the same. Also MK works a bit like this but he has enough mixups to keep his neutral fresh, but then again, he has more techchase-type punishes so that makes up for it.
G&W is a bit of a different case because has spacing tools and the "hard hits" but still almost the same goes for him
G&W is a bit of a different case because has spacing tools and the "hard hits" but still almost the same goes for him
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_regional_version_differences_(SSBM)
"Fox's down and forward smashes are less powerful."
And apparently PAL Fox fair has more range. Did not know about that one.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
Lol, seriously? Kinda unfortunate the bad wiki popped up first on Google. I thought I could at least trust them with a static list like that...
Osennecho
Smash Ace
I still stand by making Pit's upsmash not kill at low percents or be good for combos. Only nerf the character needs to make him more balanced relative to the rest of the cast. Leave everything else alone.
Last edited:
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
Nah
Not needed
You what would be cool tho? If somehow arrow looping was rewarded on pit. That would be cool.
Not needed
You what would be cool tho? If somehow arrow looping was rewarded on pit. That would be cool.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
Anti-stalling technique with unpredictable times when the arrows aim the target
EDIT: Alternatively stalling technique for yourself. If you have tap jump off you can still control the arrow quite well while jumping back to the ledge. Not really good though
EDIT: Alternatively stalling technique for yourself. If you have tap jump off you can still control the arrow quite well while jumping back to the ledge. Not really good though
Last edited:
Mr.Random
Smash Ace
Idk why the Spacies talk keep happening. Fox got nerfed 3 times, Falco got nerfed once. I think another nerf for them both would go to far. Either redesign them or leave them alone in my opinion. You guys want to see Charizard kill Fox? This set was hype https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m23OV7vVjbs.
Seriously though don't doubt the power of Charizard!!!
Edit: Oh and Sethlon vs. Mango was hype too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc4wiUysDXc
#Roy'sOurBoy
Seriously though don't doubt the power of Charizard!!!
Edit: Oh and Sethlon vs. Mango was hype too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc4wiUysDXc
#Roy'sOurBoy
Last edited:
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
What frame does his shield even come out?
BluntedMask
Smash Apprentice
How about spacies remain the same? They got combo'd hard in melee for the slightest mistake and even harder in this game.
woundedust
Smash Apprentice
I feel like as a pit main i should know this
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
Spacies are overrated
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
#kirbycide? Yea #kirbycide
spacies are such marth tier garbage
Mr.Random
Smash Ace
Spacies are definitely bottom tier. Thank you Project M. The era of spacies is over (lol).
Mr.Random
Smash Ace
Nah his worst match up is Randall. He never gets saved on time.
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
guedes the brawler
Smash Lord
i was pretty sure i've heard right here that Sonic was able to make easy work of Fox, and not too long ago ive seen the comment that bowser can do that as wlel if he isn't being camped out.
Its wayyy to early to decide if fox truely loses any MU's imo. There are definitely some MU's that give him trouble though, Pit, DDD, Ivy, Wolf, Lucas and maybe sonic could potentially be Even but swing either way once the MU and the characters get developed more.
Spiffykins
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2012
- Messages
- 547
I don't agree. His ability to combo horizontally like Jiggs and even Fox's nairplane as well as vertically like Zard or MK is pretty ridiculous. Throw arrows and chaingrabs into the mix and that's 90% of his deadliness. I wouldn't mind one or both taking a slight hit (i'm referring to his horizontal/vertical kill/combo potential).
Last edited:
D
Deleted member
Guest
idk I kinda disagree with this entire post. pit's neutral is a good dashdance AND lasers into super low risk launchers with downthrow and/or dair and he can hold position like crazy once he gets it. pit's neutral is pretty hard top tier just like the rest of the character is.
similarly, i think the opposite of the rest. lucas lucario GAW etc are entirely manageable in neutral and for the first two good SDI shuts down their punishment games solidly. for lucas and lucario specifically you can often just roll the control stick in circles mid-combo and have a decent chance of making the opponent drop it from arbitrary DI inputs.
just like any other smash game, the scary characters are the ones that are able to take control of the match well, and to keep control once they have it. this is why characters that shut down options like fox sheik MK pit diddy etc are so obviously good.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr.Random
Smash Ace
Can anyone tell me why Wolf is a better designed Space animal then Fox or Falco? What makes him less polarizing?
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Less overall ridiculous move traits, laser that's clankable, and IIRC his shine can be CC'd.
JesseMcCloud
AKA Zessei, Herald of Fate
I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I totally agree with this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR6sxFBm1P8
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
Honestly, no fox should lose to sonic. All you need to do is nair or up smash when you hear a spin noise.
Because, he is more, "fair." Lul
He is basically the PM falco with a lot of options and he isn't limited to just pillar combos and strong and stray hits. His worst trait tho, a shine, TAHT CAN BE CC WDH. His shine is the only one that can be CC. Even that poser Lucas doesn't really have a cc'able shine(pretty much does a infinte sonic down b on you lol).
Last edited:
1FD
Smash Ace
My be douchy post but needs to be done
I'm doing it now but I'm not saying it's just me or that I was the first or anything but I lurked for ages even on last page I mentioned armada and nausicaa talking about it non stop whenever they post BECAUSE IT'S THAT BABY AND IMPORTANT
I didn't mention BUT ANOTHER COOL STORY BRO
Is how one of the FIRST THINGS I EVER READ ABOUT PM EVER which continued during 2.1 to 2.6 eras
It was a convo where they were both^^^ saying how punish game needs huge work across the board of both players and characters and neither had seen much from anywhere yet and even in 3.0 they talked about it plenty each AS HAVE MANY OTHERS even when M2K gets a bad rap him and all others are right about it too and you don't see people who are great public figures like PPMD saying much WITHOUT talking about punishment game SOMEHOW and it's all about Melee usually
BUT THE SAME GOES FOR PM STUFF
Yeah I straight up stalk a lot of people on boards and facebook and stuff but they had these convos everywhere and still do
And yet even to this day it seems more people than not still think the current trend and whoever won the last tourney has more say on the GOODNESS of characters than anything in PM.
It's so weird but like every second tier list posted here looks like TODAY IN FASHION headlines
STOP IT PLEASE
FOR THE METALHEAD TODDLERS SAKE HE CAN ONLY DOUBLEPEACE FOR SO LONG
Also WTF kind of combos are Lucas and Lucario doing that SDI shuts down a big chunk of their punish games!?!?!? and how has the metagame not gotten passed CAN ESCAPE VIA THESE and onto CAN ALTER OUR COMBOS TO THESE and done that over and over enough where SDI isn't even a thing to consider.
Do you hear Melee Foxes complain about how they can NEVER LAND UAIRS AFTER UTHROWS BECAUSE OF SDI>?!?!?!
NO now STOP this shortsighted hindering mentality that crushes baby PM player souls from learning the truth you NOOBS
I don't follow basically anyone mentioned around here but I've glanced at a lot of matches posted around the boards
Only for tiny bits and most of the players mentioned when talking about things I at least know I've SEEN some of them and for the most part even the BEST of them it just looks like punish game has a ways to go for most players even the solid and simpler punish games like Link Pit Roy DK etc has room for improvement so of course Lucas and Lucario and stuff will.
Like even M2K isn't using mewtwos Down B and it's one of the freeist autokill moves to setup in freekill positions IN THE GAME and could be done off most combos I've seen him do.
When he has 2 million days in the basement to catch up on YOU KNOW IT'S A BABY
Like are Lucas's spamming Nair Dair Fair and Down B over and over and that's it or wtf how does SDI ruin his stuff?
Where is his Zair and free regrabs and stuff?
What about Lucario I know buffering things can get out of situations like if you buffer a roll if he doesn't grab immediately on your shield but even that was discussed in the Lucario forum on how you can combo fine and just ASC to follow if people SDI in a way that will get out of your stuff allow you to get free followups anyway.
Maybe it's just cause I only really talk to people directly if they AT LEAST ADVOCATE PUNISH GAME lol like armada and stuff and I have a local like bamsy to see it play out and I might just REALLY not be giving enough consideration for the way others don't have that same kind of content to work with visually outside of tourneys armada or m2k go to sometimes or the Q&A style infospammingmewiththeirgoodness on other social media and messages or direct play stuff in person
But it stands true still and it's easy to understand
Smashboards alone is filled with EVERYTHING NEEDED EVER from Statistics threads to Q&A threads to How To threads and it's all there so I don't see WHY I feel this needs to be said.
But to skip to the point
this game IS A BABY and if people aren't dying to everything they get hit with then WHAT GAME ARE WE PLAYING THIS ISN'T SMASH
I don't want to sound like a douche or anything but for real this talk of punish game needs more usefulness than just talking about how it's like...............
A PHENOMENON !?!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? COOL THING!!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF ?!?!?!?!?!?!? HOW IS COMBOING ACROSS STAGES EVEN MENTIONED AS UNIQUE TO CHARCTERS OR PLAYERS AT THIS POINT !?!?!?!?!?!
TO COMBO PEOPLE ACROSS THE STAGE when it should be THE NORM NO EXCUSE OR EXCEPTIONS and ESPECIALLY when talking about TIERS OF GOODNESS among characters is kind of a GIVEN
Like really we all play the same game unless it's PM devs on developping versions or something
But given the amount everyone is active with the game I would expect a lot more development by now.
JUST IN CASE
I might be TOTALLY wrong on all this but I feel I should post it so I did.
Might just be me but I know even nausica and armada have mentioned things like mental practices that don't SEEM associated with Smash directly but actually are
Like meditations and stuff
Is that maybe the side of Smash that's still growing?
Like I know people are a lot better at doubles now then they were even a few years ago but were all pretty trash at it until really not THAT long before brawl was even released and a lot of that has to do with a different kind of mental thing in the game
Like less knowledge and habits and focus type stuff which Singles needs a lot of for big combos and character specific stuff because doubles teams could win by having more sense of knowing what's going on around them at all times rather than the intricate stuff to deal with so they could do great ALSO I'm not talking about just bad players doing good I'm talking about SMART players who played the game differently and most become as good as others anyway
So maybe BRAINZ have everything to do with it
I'm TOTALLY RADICAL LARRYING it up right now with this rambling but yeah MY POINTS STAND TRUE EVEN IF IT'S IN A RAMBLE
If someone is playing a character and not EVERY SINGLE ****ING HIT leads to death then this community is still a baby and that's what many people have been going on about for PMs entire existence.
I'm doing it now but I'm not saying it's just me or that I was the first or anything but I lurked for ages even on last page I mentioned armada and nausicaa talking about it non stop whenever they post BECAUSE IT'S THAT BABY AND IMPORTANT
I didn't mention BUT ANOTHER COOL STORY BRO
Is how one of the FIRST THINGS I EVER READ ABOUT PM EVER which continued during 2.1 to 2.6 eras
It was a convo where they were both^^^ saying how punish game needs huge work across the board of both players and characters and neither had seen much from anywhere yet and even in 3.0 they talked about it plenty each AS HAVE MANY OTHERS even when M2K gets a bad rap him and all others are right about it too and you don't see people who are great public figures like PPMD saying much WITHOUT talking about punishment game SOMEHOW and it's all about Melee usually
BUT THE SAME GOES FOR PM STUFF
Yeah I straight up stalk a lot of people on boards and facebook and stuff but they had these convos everywhere and still do
And yet even to this day it seems more people than not still think the current trend and whoever won the last tourney has more say on the GOODNESS of characters than anything in PM.
It's so weird but like every second tier list posted here looks like TODAY IN FASHION headlines
STOP IT PLEASE
FOR THE METALHEAD TODDLERS SAKE HE CAN ONLY DOUBLEPEACE FOR SO LONG
Also WTF kind of combos are Lucas and Lucario doing that SDI shuts down a big chunk of their punish games!?!?!? and how has the metagame not gotten passed CAN ESCAPE VIA THESE and onto CAN ALTER OUR COMBOS TO THESE and done that over and over enough where SDI isn't even a thing to consider.
Do you hear Melee Foxes complain about how they can NEVER LAND UAIRS AFTER UTHROWS BECAUSE OF SDI>?!?!?!
NO now STOP this shortsighted hindering mentality that crushes baby PM player souls from learning the truth you NOOBS
I don't follow basically anyone mentioned around here but I've glanced at a lot of matches posted around the boards
Only for tiny bits and most of the players mentioned when talking about things I at least know I've SEEN some of them and for the most part even the BEST of them it just looks like punish game has a ways to go for most players even the solid and simpler punish games like Link Pit Roy DK etc has room for improvement so of course Lucas and Lucario and stuff will.
Like even M2K isn't using mewtwos Down B and it's one of the freeist autokill moves to setup in freekill positions IN THE GAME and could be done off most combos I've seen him do.
When he has 2 million days in the basement to catch up on YOU KNOW IT'S A BABY
Like are Lucas's spamming Nair Dair Fair and Down B over and over and that's it or wtf how does SDI ruin his stuff?
Where is his Zair and free regrabs and stuff?
What about Lucario I know buffering things can get out of situations like if you buffer a roll if he doesn't grab immediately on your shield but even that was discussed in the Lucario forum on how you can combo fine and just ASC to follow if people SDI in a way that will get out of your stuff allow you to get free followups anyway.
Maybe it's just cause I only really talk to people directly if they AT LEAST ADVOCATE PUNISH GAME lol like armada and stuff and I have a local like bamsy to see it play out and I might just REALLY not be giving enough consideration for the way others don't have that same kind of content to work with visually outside of tourneys armada or m2k go to sometimes or the Q&A style infospammingmewiththeirgoodness on other social media and messages or direct play stuff in person
But it stands true still and it's easy to understand
Smashboards alone is filled with EVERYTHING NEEDED EVER from Statistics threads to Q&A threads to How To threads and it's all there so I don't see WHY I feel this needs to be said.
But to skip to the point
this game IS A BABY and if people aren't dying to everything they get hit with then WHAT GAME ARE WE PLAYING THIS ISN'T SMASH
I don't want to sound like a douche or anything but for real this talk of punish game needs more usefulness than just talking about how it's like...............
A PHENOMENON !?!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? COOL THING!!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF ?!?!?!?!?!?!? HOW IS COMBOING ACROSS STAGES EVEN MENTIONED AS UNIQUE TO CHARCTERS OR PLAYERS AT THIS POINT !?!?!?!?!?!
TO COMBO PEOPLE ACROSS THE STAGE when it should be THE NORM NO EXCUSE OR EXCEPTIONS and ESPECIALLY when talking about TIERS OF GOODNESS among characters is kind of a GIVEN
Like really we all play the same game unless it's PM devs on developping versions or something
But given the amount everyone is active with the game I would expect a lot more development by now.
JUST IN CASE
I might be TOTALLY wrong on all this but I feel I should post it so I did.
Might just be me but I know even nausica and armada have mentioned things like mental practices that don't SEEM associated with Smash directly but actually are
Like meditations and stuff
Is that maybe the side of Smash that's still growing?
Like I know people are a lot better at doubles now then they were even a few years ago but were all pretty trash at it until really not THAT long before brawl was even released and a lot of that has to do with a different kind of mental thing in the game
Like less knowledge and habits and focus type stuff which Singles needs a lot of for big combos and character specific stuff because doubles teams could win by having more sense of knowing what's going on around them at all times rather than the intricate stuff to deal with so they could do great ALSO I'm not talking about just bad players doing good I'm talking about SMART players who played the game differently and most become as good as others anyway
So maybe BRAINZ have everything to do with it
I'm TOTALLY RADICAL LARRYING it up right now with this rambling but yeah MY POINTS STAND TRUE EVEN IF IT'S IN A RAMBLE
Last edited:
All shines can be CC'd. If a character that would have been knocked down by fox's shine CCs it, they don't get knocked down. you can CC falco's at low percents as well.
Tl:DR's for 1FD's post: Git gud son. But I agree everyone needs to develop punish games more.
Last edited:
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
Wolf's is worse than the others when CC tho, because people go no where. It's not like they fall down, they just sit there, crouching, looking you right in the eye.
Last edited:
1FD
Smash Ace
Wolf should just SHINEGRAB everything anyway
Like really he's so fast he could Shine Grab on EVERY Shine and if they CC or Shield he gets the grab and if not he still gets a MAYBE NOT OPTIMAL BUT CAN BE OPTIMIZED ENOUGH SH Uair or whatever off it anyway
Wolf Grabs the best and can get them for free of like anything too
Even resetting combos with blaster followups to force DJs or swatting the laser away or even just comboing into regrabs and stuff just like Lucas does ALL OF THOSE so yeah Wolf Shine is FINE given all the stuff around it
True and you just agreed with the best 10 players in the world AND NOT EVEN JUST SMASHERS BUT THE IDEA OF OPTIMIZING THE BROKEN DOWN CHUNKS OF ACTIVITIES LIKE SMASH IS THE SAME CONCEPT THE BEST 10 PEOPLE AT ANYTHING ALLLLLLLLLLLLL ADVOCATE
NOT EVEN ME I'M TRASH LIKE YOU ALL TOO SO LOOOOOVE THE BABY
D
Deleted member
Guest
you mom breaks down chunks
but seriously tho thats just correct basically
but seriously tho thats just correct basically
Mr.Random
Smash Ace
No I'm asking what overall makes Wolf less ridiculous than the other two?