Tier List Speculation

D

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My first 3.0 tier list:

A
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Meta Knight
4. Sheik
5. Wolf


B
6. Mario
7. Snake
8. Diddy Kong
9. Wario
10. Pit
11. Peach
12. Marth
13. Lucas
14. Yoshi


C
15. Zero Suit Samus
16. Ike
17. Donkey Kong
18. Link
19. Ivysaur
20. Ice Climbers
21. Samus
22. Sonic
23. Lucario
24. Kirby
25. Mewtwo
26. Captain Falcon
27. Bowser
28. Zelda
29. Jigglypuff
30. Toon Link
31. Roy
32. Charizard
33. Pikachu


D
34. ROB
35. Luigi
36. Ness
37. Olimar
38. King Dedede
39. Mr. G&W
40. Squirtle
41. Ganondorf
 
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DMG

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DMG#931
People are placing Yoshi so ****ing sky high. Nobody but Yoshi mains know a damn thing about that janky character to begin with. What's with this sudden insight we have that Yoshi is the new Mario of this game? I'm legit curious how a month of... what Yoshi results and videos... leads to x spot?

(Not directed only at you. Most people put him up there, look at Canon's list it's weird)
 
D

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It's just an assumption right now, but I have a feeling that Yoshi will end up being really good. His janky movement can be confusing for everybody, but it's going to end up working in the favor of his dedicated mains. He has a lot of other stuff going for him as well - his shield is amazing, fast on both the ground and especially in the air, not too easy to kill, doesn't himself have too much trouble killing, gigantic air grab, a projectile that can travel in tons of directions, and dat Nair.
 

Nguz95

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dabes nair+da powah=dabes char

Honestly, Yoshi is mostly theorycrafting for now, and I'll be interested to see how he does. Vectorman makes him look pretty good though.
 

KayB

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I'd like to see how the match ups against Ice Climbers turn out and how many anti-nana strategies there are for the newer characters. They're definitely more solid thanks to their new desynchs, and their buffs from 3.0 to 3.1 were pretty damn good.
 

Kati

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People are placing Yoshi so ****ing sky high. Nobody but Yoshi mains know a damn thing about that janky character to begin with. What's with this sudden insight we have that Yoshi is the new Mario of this game? I'm legit curious how a month of... what Yoshi results and videos... leads to x spot?

(Not directed only at you. Most people put him up there, look at Canon's list it's weird)
Wait so is there a common consensus regarding Mario? I've yet to find anything written about him.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
"Mario OP, always gets in with Fireballs and Dair and kills you from 0"

"Always recovers never dies"

"Dthrow OP"

Where have YOU been for the Mario talks? Mario is preached like a god around these parts!
 

GeZ

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Wait so is there a common consensus regarding Mario? I've yet to find anything written about him.
He's awesome. But he has been for a while. He's just been getting stealth buffs through almost every patch, and people are actually putting in the brain power to use him, though I still think he has yet to be taken up to his full potential yet.

"Mario OP, always gets in with Fireballs and Dair and kills you from 0"

"Always recovers never dies"

"Dthrow OP"

Where have YOU been for the Mario talks? Mario is preached like a god around these parts!
Red Mario is Mario the Bloodless. On account of never dying. :dr-_-:
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Mario is cool and all. I wouldn't be surprised in the long run to see some stuff reverted though: I can't imagine the reduced Fireball cooldown will stay, and possibly a reduction in Upb walljump recovery (a good one might be to force Mario to be hugging the wall initially)
 

GeZ

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I don't know what is "wrong" with Squirtle. He is a good character.
I think the problem is that as far as I can tell, squirtle doesn't do any one thing noticeably better than any other character, and doesn't have the design of a jack of all trades, so he suffers not from being all around bad, but instead not being all around good enough/ usably better than anyone else in any one aspect.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
At the end of the day, it's hard to force Squirtle to be ****ty. You CAN invalidate him for going in, but Squirtle floating around and doing janky stuff takes forever to beat down and "actually" win against.
 

NickLeo

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Why is everyone putting olimar on the bottom? Especially below ganon, d3, and squirtle. If olimar is played correctly he can stack damage faster than almost any other member in the cast and has some solid KO options. He should at least be upper C tier
As for squirtle, he's a slippery chacter with good approaches, all he needs is either some extra priority or range
I always thought g&w and d3 would be the lowest ranked characters, but not by too much
 

GP&B

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It's not necessarily his capabilities, but more so that he's as interesting as a rock. No, scratch that; rocks have some redeeming features. The little ******* is just insanely boring looking.
 

DireDrop

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Why is everyone putting olimar on the bottom? Especially below ganon, d3, and squirtle. If olimar is played correctly he can stack damage faster than almost any other member in the cast and has some solid KO options. He should at least be upper C tier
As for squirtle, he's a slippery chacter with good approaches, all he needs is either some extra priority or range
I always thought g&w and d3 would be the lowest ranked characters, but not by too much
I agree with Gamedominator. I don't think he has any interesting options. That lack of flexibility is only going to hurt him in the long run.
 

Kati

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"Mario OP, always gets in with Fireballs and Dair and kills you from 0"

"Always recovers never dies"

"Dthrow OP"

Where have YOU been for the Mario talks? Mario is preached like a god around these parts!
I don't think I have ever posted in this thread, so perhaps I have been missing a lot of game related opinions.

I think the problem is that as far as I can tell, squirtle doesn't do any one thing noticeably better than any other character, and doesn't have the design of a jack of all trades, so he suffers not from being all around bad, but instead not being all around good enough/ usably better than anyone else in any one aspect.
Not that I will ever play Squirtle, but I like the concept of a smash fast character with light armour. Besides DDD DK and Bowser, who else has armour..?
 

GP&B

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Mario is an above-average well-rounded character with no overtly problematic matchups and lots of great tools. Personally, he doesn't extend into top tier but he's exceptionally good without a doubt. I'd say Mario's only notable matchup issues deal with swords. Mario does not like swords, despite having a strong movement game.
 

Ripple

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squirtle's problems are his atrocious get up rolls and his throws that aren't d-throw
 

zman804

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Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
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Olimar can't be made interesting
I don't care if he's good or not
but good god is he the most boring character in this game
 

Scythe

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from my brief time messing around with olimar, it feels like he'll be decent but takes no skill.
 

Metazoa

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Everything that makes Olimar interesting from a gameplay perspective is kinda subtle (the switching of Pikmin, how your Pikmin might affect your next decision, etc.), which is probably what makes him so boring to watch compared to other characters.
 

ss118

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On a more serious attempt to make a tier list, I have a list of seven characters that I believe without a doubt are the "top" characters in the game.

Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Ivysaur, Mario, and Metaknight(in no order).

Characters barely below include Link, Ike, Wolf(he's close to making the list above a top 8 though)... and some others I personally believe to be there but I'll discuss those at a later time. Does anyone necessarily disagree with those 7 though?
 

Kankato

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I don't know how everyone else feels about Olimar, but I see a squandered opportunity. His Pikmin could act as a very unique system of rotating movesets for incredible setups, combos, and an added depth of character specific strategy. Unfortunately Pikmin types are randomly generated, throwing all this strategy out the window. Imagine if Olimar could choose a lineup of two Blues, a Yellow and a Purple so his grab game would be stronger on FD. On YS, Oli could opt Red-Yellow-Yellow for combos and Stage control. If Blue works better than Red at lower percents, Olimar can adapt.
This kind of feature gets rid of Olimar's biggest flaw: The random Pikmin. Randomness always hurts games that strive to be competitive, and Olimar is all parts random. If diversified pikmin are a goal of the PMBR, random chance hurts even more. If I want a good Pikmin for fighting CCing, I have cross my fingers and hope one pops up. Need further grab reach? Let's hope the odds are ever in your favor. If not? Your fault for picking Olimar to begin with.
Deciding linups can keep Pikmin adaptable, diversified and user friendly. A setup like Blue(Grab)-Blue(Grab)-Yellow-(whatever Yellow wants to do) could be a more grab friendly lineup. Something like Red(Solid Hit)- White(Weak hit extension)-Red(Finisher) can combo and pressure. All of these lineups vary depending upon what properties the Pikmin possess, but the sentiment is the same.
To avoid crazy things like players choosing four Purples and going to town, a diversity limit could be implemented allowing for only one "duplicate" pikmin. Ex: 2 Reds, 1 Blue is acceptable. 2 Reds, 2 Blues isn't acceptable.

What direction you are holding on the Control stick when you let go of Neutral B decides color
None=Red
Forward=Blue
Up=Yellow
Down=Purple
Back=White
Following this control scheme with the whistle could organize color.

TL;DR A noob pitches a design idea on Olimar to make him interesting/dynamic.

EDIT: Clarified the "diversity rule"
 
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