Tier List Speculation

[Oro?!]

If MK didn't have such good matchups vs spacies and Sheik I would consider putting Wolf above MK.

 

[Kaeldiar]

I think Giga Bowser, right now, feels incomplete. Maybe replace down B with a shine?

Bahahaha, I would love to see Giga Bowser using a shine

 

[NightShadow6]

Everyone is sleeping the Charizard.

 

[TyponV]

Yeah, I've been playing around with Diddy a lot. If there's gonna be a new Ike/Lucario/Sonic/Ivysaur, it's gonna be Diddy. However, I don't think Diddy will end up breaking into the top 5, as I firmly believe that the Top 5 just don't lose enough matchups. Just for reference, I fully agree with Umbreon's Top 5.

EDIT: By don't lose enough matchups, I basically mean that they win a majority of the other matchups in the game and go even with each other.

 

[Laudandus]

Umbreon by cheese do you mean Marth gets hard countered by a bunch of matchups? If so what are those matchups? If not what do you mean?

 

[Vale]

Hey guys, I made an average of the top 10 characters from all of the lists that were posted to this thread since the release of 3.0 and figured I'd post it here. #1 was given 10 points, #2 was given 9 points, etc, with any non-top 10 character being given 0 points. I'll update it as more people provide their lists.

Spoiler

1. Fox (9.25)
2. Falco (7.5)
3. Shielda (6.125)
4. Wolf (5.3125)
5. Meta Knight (5.1875)
6. Lucas (4.6875)
7. Mario (3.25)
8. Wario (2)
9. Peach (1.9375)
10. Yoshi/Marth (1.6875)

The only other ones to gain an average score of above one were Diddy Kong (1.3125) and Mewtwo (1.0625). This was followed by Pit (0.625).

 

[Kink-Link5]

Why not just actually average them instead of using arbitrary numbers given exclusively to the top ten?

Still it doesn't look too bad barring Marth.

 

[Vale]

Why not just actually average them instead of using arbitrary numbers given exclusively to the top ten?

Still it doesn't too bad barring Marth.

That would make sense.

People had been talking about the "top 10" and a few lists were exclusively those. You're right that it would make more sense to go back and take an average of the full lists, which I might do at a later point.

 

[Sizzlorr217]

Anyone got an explanation for Warios viability?
I mean, what about his moveset or specific matchups or any kind of reason puts him up that high on a tierlist anyway?

 

[9bit]

You know how like Jigglypuff was pretty good in Melee? Well like, imagine that but better

 

[Gimpyfish62]

imagine that but significantly worse because he doesn't have gigantic hitboxes that are incredibly safe

i think tha'ts what you meant

 

[Strong Badam]

Wario definitely is NOT top 10 anymore. He's lingering in the 11-16ish area now.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

How the hell is Wolf anywhere near that high? And where's Bowser at?

 

[Vashimus]

Really? He has a laser, he has a shine, he's fast and combos you like hell. Sound familiar? Though Wolf arguably has more extensive combo options than Fox or Falco.

Bowser's good. Top ten good? That's pushing it.

 

[Scythe]

bowser just got the D

 

[Kink-Link5]

Anyone got an explanation for Warios viability?
I mean, what about his moveset or specific matchups or any kind of reason puts him up that high on a tierlist anyway?

Nair, safe trades, nair, easy gimp setups, safe positioning game with lasting hitboxes and weaving, nair, easy confirms into finishers at high percents, and nair.

 

[Oro?!]

Wario is still a really good character...

 

[Vashimus]

Nair, safe trades, nair, easy gimp setups, safe positioning game with lasting hitboxes and weaving, nair, easy confirms into finishers at high percents, and nair.

Could've swore this was your exact same assessment of MK.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Could've swore this was your exact same assessment of MK.

MK doesn't weave or gimp as well as Wario.

My assessment of MK was that he has some of the strongest fundamentals in the game with an aggressively finetuned shff, solid positioning through dashes and a great grab, and a nair that is good enough to constitute itself as its own character.

Them having stellar nairs is the only real comparison.

 

[Frank Curtis]

This is only speculation on my end from watching matches and playing the game myself. Feel free to critique.

S Tier
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Zelda/Shiek
Marth
Captain Falcon
Bowser
Ice Climbers
Peach
Jigglypuff

A Tier
Mario
Luigi
Lucas
Roy
Pit
Mewtwo
Samus
Ganon
Kirby

B Tier
Ike
Lucario
Meta Knight
Snake
Diddy Kong
Sonic
Ivysaur
Pikachu
ROB
Wario
Zero Suit Samus

C Tier
Ness
Charizard
DeDeDe
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Link
Toon Link

D Tier
Squirtle
Mr. G&W
Olimar

 

[Kink-Link5]

Bowser, Marth, Ganon, and Falcon aren't nearly that high.

Olimar, MK, Wario, ZSS, and Diddy definitely aren't that low.


Yoshi is also very low there. I'm quite convinced that character is one of the best in the game. He was already good-but-unbelievably-unwielding-and-unforgiving in Melee, and he's not just been streamlined- both his unique aspects and traditionally reliable moves have been considerably buffed. He's a ****ing monster that plays the game however he wants and changes the entire dynamic of how fundamental engagement is handled on a level comparable to Melee Jigglypuff.

 

[Frank Curtis]

Like I said, it's from pure speculation. I'll probably change my mind as time moves on. But I'm curious, if Marth isn't that high, where would you put the likes of Roy and Mewtwo as of now?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Still below Marth probably.

This is my first and so far only assessment at the moment, and I've already reconsidered a few characters.


[collapse=Bunni's Project M 3.0 Tier List ver. 0.1 (now with numbers for lazy f--ks)]
A Class
Top Tier
01.) Fox
02.) Falco
03.) Yoshi
04.) Sheik/Zelda

High Tier
05.) Wario
06.) Peach
07.) Snake
08.) Diddy Kong
09.) Lucas
10.) Metaknight's Nair
11.) Link


B Class
Upper Tier
12.) Wolf
13.) Pit
14.) Zero Suit Samus
15.) Ice Climbers
16.) Donkey Kong
17.) Bowser
18.) Mario
19.) Ivysaur
20.) Kirby
21.) Marth
22.) Samus

Middle Tier
23.) Lucario
24.) Mr. Game and Watch
25.) R.O.B.
26.) Jigglypuff
27.) Mewtwo
28.) Ike
29.) Sonic
30.) Roy
31.) Captain Falcon

C Class
Low Tier
32.) Luigi
33.) Olimar
34.) Toon Link
35.) Ganondorf

Bottom Tier
36.) King DeDeDe
37.) Zelda
38.) Charizard
39.) Pikachu
40.) Ness
41.) Squirtle[/collapse]

 

[Ripple]

Yoshi won't be good until they fix/normalize his shield.

parrying is worthless right now

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

So how much of this Yoshi business is theorycraft, and how good is he really in terms of his matchups and such?

 

[DMG]

Wario definitely is NOT top 10 anymore. He's lingering in the 11-16ish area now.

Were the nerfs really that strong, or are people sliding above him?

Yoshi won't be good until they fix/normalize his shield.

parrying is worthless right now

What's wrong with it? Is he power shielding after/instead of parrying?


Edit: 95% of Yoshi stuff is theory craft. It's basically assuming that someone as good as Vector Man would take the character to a top 5 level. Which would be cool if we actually had people... doing that?

 

[Ripple]

What's wrong with it? Is he power shielding after/instead of parrying?

http://smashboards.com/threads/parry-doesnt-work-as-intended.345193/

 

[metroid1117]

Yoshi won't be good until they fix/normalize his shield.

parrying is worthless right now

Don't worry Ripple, we're aware of it.

 

[Ripple]

Don't worry Ripple, we're aware of it.

I know you're aware. I told oro?! about it a couple days ago since no one responded to it.

 

[DMG]

http://smashboards.com/threads/parry-doesnt-work-as-intended.345193/

Ok. I was close then. I figured moves kept lingering and would hit his shield after the parry

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi won't be good until they fix/normalize his shield.

parrying is worthless right now

it's called "balance", aka we leave yoshi in Depression tier for as long as possible.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I for one welcome the thought of Yoshi being used to his full metabreaking potential.

 

[DMG]

I don't

Yoshi UP forever in our hearts

 

[Scidadle]

I'm curious what people think about snake's tier list placing. I feel like the character needs a lot of development but has some real potential

 

[trash?]

worst character in the game

source: best player is from the UK and also isn't the tlink player

 

[Rat]

Snake's real good.
He can't really threaten things infront on him. (DashA maybe)
But he's got an unblockable, fast, high damage c4 sticky.

Also upB. He has an upB.

 

[Vashimus]

I agree with Kinky on Yoshi being really ****ing good, but putting him on the level on Fox and Falco in terms of stage control and matchups versus the rest of cast...that's way too early to say. Shield parrying getting fixed would be pretty damn bonkers with how good he is now.

I also approve of Kink not buying into the Mario hype and realizing other characters like Pit, Wolf, and even Link have much better toolsets.

 

[The_NZA]

I think everyone is sleeping on Link. I still don't understand how people don't see him as at least the low end of the high tier (top 10 characters of the game). I guess the main thing hurting him are results (which is a big deal), but it's not like Wolf or Metaknight are consistently reining in great results either.

 

[Vashimus]

"Everyone's sleeping on everybody." -DMG

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Apex: The Awakening.