Tier List Speculation

[Ogopogo]

I think Strong Bad once said he might make a list... he should do a list of 2.6 as a final goodbye for when 3.0 is about to be released.

 

[KayB]

Question: why is Diddy so low? Haven't played yet, but from what I heard most said he's just as good as in Brawl. So why everyone ranking him so low?

I also want to add that, minus like one or two people, no one EVER talks about Diddy. Like ever. He might actually be the least discussed character in all these boards.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Well its not like diddy kong is an interesting character

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well its not like diddy kong is an interesting character

Well it's not like Papa+Stone is an interesting character.

See, I can play this game to you know?

Spoiler

Seriously though, give him a few tail-attacks. F-Tilt and U Air for example. Would really help Diddy, as it would add a little range on his moves.

 

[DMG]

Yeah, page 148 of this thread. Here is Nguz95's tier list:



And here is a partial list to counter Nguz95 by DMG:

My response was only in relation to how well Falcon does against those characters, not on where the characters are placed themeselves. Wasn't even aimed at the guy who made that list, but to the person who assumed Falcon bodied all of those characters.

I also want to add that, minus like one or two people, no one EVER talks about Diddy. Like ever. He might actually be the least discussed character in all these boards.

Diddy is janky and nobody really proves why he's supposed to be legendary. He's hard to play effectively, because there's not a whole lot that makes sense besides standard juggles and edge guards.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy's D Air should spike.

 

[Plum]

I think Diddy has a fairly large disparity between him having a banana and not having a banana. Unfortunately getting a banana(s) and maintaining control over them easier said than done. He's at least serviceable without them, but nothing special.
His game is opened up when he has a banana as they just give him a lot of options, like item drop shield pressure, forcing techs, stuffing certain approaches, OOS options, a degree of stage control, better recovery... blah blah blah
Man what if Diddy could just pull a banana straight to hand instead of toss it into the air...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Personally, I wouldn't even mind if they'd remove Diddy's Bananas and replace it with another move that has a 'tripping' effect. Like, a quick tail spin. I think that would truely make him fit better in the Melee-enviorment than the Brawl-specific Bananas.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Nah she has a neutral game. It's just very one dimensional and inflexible.

That's what I mean, it's not much of a neutral game

 

[Ace55]

On another note can we seriously get rid of the League of Legends mentality of "if I don't know how to handle the character they should be nerfed"? It's seriously unproductive here and very groan worthy every time I see a post like it in here.

Things like MK's Fsmash are valid to bring up though from a design perspective since it's pretty brainless and too safe.

One of the funnier posts I've read.

"Stop complaining you scrubs and learn the matchups! It's hurting our progress as a community!

Oh yeah, nerf MK's Fsmash cuz it's dumb!"

 

[Sarix]

One of the funnier posts I've read.

"Stop complaining you scrubs and learn the matchups! It's hurting our progress as a community!

Oh yeah, nerf MK's Fsmash cuz it's dumb!"

I'm glad you found my post funny. :D

 

[Vashimus]

You so silly Sarix.

 

[KayB]

Personally, I wouldn't even mind if they'd remove Diddy's Bananas and replace it with another move that has a 'tripping' effect. Like, a quick tail spin. I think that would truely make him fit better in the Melee-enviorment than the Brawl-specific Bananas.

As far as I'm concerned, the main objective of Project M is to make it into a fun, balanced, competitive Smash Bros game using the Melee engine as a medium. Certain play styles don't exactly have to mimic or even contribute to the one's in Melee; in fact, I'd rather have a character with a new niche that I can experiment with instead of one that's been done before.

 

[Vashimus]

For every new character that occupies a niche, there also tends to be quite a bit of controversy behind them.

 

[DMG]

Ivysaur doesn't occupy a niche: it completely overruns it like the unwanted Weed it is

 

[Diddy Kong]

As far as I'm concerned, the main objective of Project M is to make it into a fun, balanced, competitive Smash Bros game using the Melee engine as a medium. Certain play styles don't exactly have to mimic or even contribute to the one's in Melee; in fact, I'd rather have a character with a new niche that I can experiment with instead of one that's been done before.

Am just saying that item-play outside of Peach's Turpins is pretty much non-existant in Melee. And that's the whole point of Diddy's competitive play in Brawl. I can see why this doesn't translate that well in a Melee-enviorment. Hence my suggestion for a change.

 

[Papa+Stone]

I dont know I kind of like that there are some more defensively inclined characters being introduced like zelda and ivysaur and bowser. And yeah the pm community is totally like league of losers to whoever brought it up

 

[Vashimus]

I agree with Plum's idea of having Diddy pull out the banana and hold it like a regular item (like Peach and Link do with their Down-B) rather than throw it in the air.

 

[KayB]

Am just saying that item-play outside of Peach's Turpins is pretty much non-existant in Melee. And that's the whole point of Diddy's competitive play in Brawl. I can see why this doesn't translate that well in a Melee-enviorment. Hence my suggestion for a change.

In that argument, you already have Peach that heavily relies on items that she pulls out. I'd say that's enough of a reason to keep bananas in since items have been proved to be an effective metagame in Melee.

 

[Ace55]

Items are arguably more interesting than othen projectiles anyway. They allow for more interaction.

If there is one thing I love about post-64 smash it's the ******** amount of interaction (although Brawl's other issues still ruined it to me).

 

[Plum]

I agree with Plum's idea of having Diddy pull out the banana and hold it like a regular item (like Peach and Link do with their Down-B) rather than throw it in the air.

It's less of what I think should be done with Diddy and more of what you could do do Diddy as an instant "let's make Diddy better because why not?"
I actually think it's more interesting that Diddy can't have the banana in hand for free, and it creates interesting gameplay for both the Diddy and the opponent. You can actively deny Diddy bananas through various means of pressure, and Diddy is actively looking for openings to not only safely pull a banana, but also safely get it in hand. It makes for a unique experience. Sure, part of me would love to see how Diddy plays out with straight to hand bananas (the same part of me that would love to see Sheik and Zelda split up so Sheik could have a Down B because yolo), but I think preserving that gameplay is overall better.

 

[Professor Pro]

Not really, that's just what happens when you play poorly and make bad decisions. I can take him out if I play well.

*walks in*

No, you can't.
No, you haven't.
No, you won't.

*walks out with truth left behind*

 

[SSS]

The Diddy Kong question is interesting. I like the fact that throwing them doesn't trip anymore, and that they only trip on the ground. It leads to a sort of mine-like scenario. The fact that the opponent can pick them up, Diddy doesn't have it in hand right when he pulls it, and the whole no-trip-on-throw thing makes me question the decision to only allow one out at a time. That seems to be nerfing it too much. Were Diddy Kong nanner tactics in Brawl gay? Yes. However, I think that was due to the fact that throwing them tripped, leading to infinite lolautocombos from the trip. Of course, in Brawl I think it's a lot more unfair than it would be in Melee; in Brawl combo setups and offensive approaching are so rare that any character that has any sort of setup that isn't a percentage-specific grab setup is automatically a god. In Melee and Project M, however, where characters have combo/kill setups left and right (*cough cough* sheik *cough cough*), banana tactics become less, um, gay. You don't want to nerf the bananas so much that they don't become integral to his play. You want the spirit of the character to stay the same, and bananas have always been Diddy's thing. It could get to the point where they aren't worth the trouble. Consider Zelda's fire; in Project M, you can make such good traps with them, and it's pretty easy. A simple side b (not something you have to throw behind you then grab), you can place 3 (not just one), plenty of freedom. So I feel like Diddy Kong's bananas could be trap based, used to cover options left and right, so that they either tech into a trip or pick the only non-banana option left and get faired in the face. It could make for some very interesting gameplay, gameplay based on covering options, setting up traps, reading common options chosen by your opponents, and capitalizing. So I'd say give him two, and maybe reduce some other aspects to his gameplay so that he's more nanner trap oriented.

The Project M team needs to be careful not to fall into an attitude of "it was OP in Brawl so we must nerf it hardcore". Things that were OP in Brawl don't necessarily translate to be OP in Melee. Like I said: combos and viable offensive play is so rare in Brawl that anybody who has it is a god. However, in Melee a lot of people have those things, so they become less special and less godly in comparison. I mean come on, you guys left the Melee top tiers the same; you don't want to nerf the Diddy Kongs and the Meta Knights so much that they're no longer viable compared to the Foxes and the Sheiks.

EDIT: Just tested Diddy Kong. So he can have 2 bananas out at a time. I don't know why I thought he couldn't. Um. Never mind then. I think he's good. Calm down, peeps.

 

[GunBlaze]

He can pull out two in this version.

 

[SSS]

He can pull out two in this version.

Lol i just playtested him and realized. I feel like such an idiot. Still though. Some valid points about the spirit of Project M were made, I feel. Also the banana straight to hand would be good.

 

[Jolteon]

*walks in*

No, you can't.
No, you haven't.
No, you won't.

*walks out with truth left behind*

I liked this post. Not because it's the truth, but because I'll get to use my old patented "quote-for-contradiction" tactic when I 3-0 you. =D

 

[Nausicaa]

I think Diddy has a fairly large disparity between him having a banana and not having a banana. Unfortunately getting a banana(s) and maintaining control over them easier said than done. He's at least serviceable without them, but nothing special.

Sounds like Lucario and Aura Charges too.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I agree with Plum's idea of having Diddy pull out the banana and hold it like a regular item (like Peach and Link do with their Down-B) rather than throw it in the air.

I agree with this idea for the most part, but then I think ROB mains will be like "WTF."

If anything I think he should pull that Nanner out in a way that is far more useful then throwing it up and behind him.

 

[KayB]

Diddy's Bananas are way more versatile than Link's bombs or Peach's turnips, not to mention he has some pretty good Glide Toss shenanigans. Having him be able to just pull out the banana and hold it could be too beneficial for his own good.

 

[Yung Mei]

IMO diddy was perfectly fine in 2.5(b), its just that his side B and up B needed more landing lag

instead they nerfed the **** outta him and now he's weird as ****q

 

[Nguz95]

Screw Diddy. Lets talk about cool characters like Lucas and Ness.

 

[Nausicaa]

I like the trajectory of Down-B, it's a nice toss that works for things.

I don't like throwing things on the ground a really odd distance in front of me when I just plan on picking it up after... like Gyro. <_<

I can take him out if I play well.
I find it odd that the Captain of the 'vids or else' Club can speak so directly about 'current happenings' when they haven't happened, yet they're such an advocate of vids-or-else when someone doesn't even say anything about 'happenings' at all.
Funny.

Up-B is so easy to intercept, it's amazing more landing lag was even a consideration as a nerf. In 2.5b it's not like it was even hard to punish mid-air with it's very targeted trajectory, landing lag seems arbitrary when you could hit him easily anyway. :/

 

[Zwarm]

My only gripe with Diddy is that he doesn't get his side B back if he's hit out of it, while ZSS's down B which serves basically the same purpose while recovering comes back after getting hit.

 

[Scythe]

i think a lot of people dont realize that zelda is ver vulnerable during the startup of up-b. That's when you are supposed to punish it, not after(although you still can)

 

[metroid1117]

My only gripe with Diddy is that he doesn't get his side B back if he's hit out of it, while ZSS's down B which serves basically the same purpose while recovering comes back after getting hit.

That does seem strange, but to be fair, at least Diddy has hitboxes on his recovery moves.

 

[Zwarm]

That does seem strange, but to be fair, at least Diddy has hitboxes on his recovery moves.

That's true. ZSS has the option to put out a hitbox though as well, and it's jump cancellable, so dive kick doesn't equal death.

While Diddy can have a grab box or a hitbox, so I guess I can see the trade-off. As of right now, that's the only real reason why I don't play Diddy, though.

 

[Oro?!]

Below the stage divekick equals death.

 

[Zwarm]

Well yeah, but above or even with the stage?

 

[CaptinMoses]

Ness so low :<

 

[DrinkingFood]

I like ROB
eh airdashes and doesn't afraid of anything
still miss 2.1 side-b tho. Then I figured out how to use 2.5 side-b and they took that away too (kind of) why JCz
instant RoboDashDashes were the coolest thing about this character, RIP 2.1 side-b