Tier List Speculation

[DMG]

PM: Where players with amazing skill the ability to type come to complain

Fixed

 

[Player -0]

actually I just use speech to text

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

soulpech beat strong bad at sns

is puff good

or did strong bad just get memed on

also hbox did things

 

[steelguttey]

puff has some pm matchups that are probably not too bad/even/good

like diddy maybe and snake jiggs looks pretty overrated i cant see jiggs getting hit by any of snakes bull**** alot

 

[DMG]

Puff is hardest character to accurately rank in PM

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

list of characters I have no idea how to rank:

puff
icies
zelda
ddd

 

[Life]

Add Ness and Snake to the list for me.

Actually I'm not sure there are any characters we SHOULD be confident about, besides Bowser and maybe Fox.

 

[Strong Badam]

soulpech beat strong bad at sns

is puff good

or did strong bad just get memed on

also hbox did things

Well, I did SD once game one, but it was still a 2-0. He played a good bit more patient than me and also seemed to know a lot more nuances of the matchup than me, for example he rested my Up-B landing recovery a couple times and didn't get combo'd by Bite ever. I believe he plays Carls, a pretty strong Wario player from Ohio, and has for a few years now. I still think Wario has an advantage in the MU. SoulPech feel free to confirm or deny or add any extra thoughts on the MU.

ATM I feel I would almost definitely lose to Hbox. I think that's more about Hbox's skill than Puff's ability in this game though.

 

[trash?]

puff is still a character that rewards good spacing, hbox still has the best spacing ability on the face of the earth. it's already difficult for most people to rank puff in melee there's only 8 good characters to look into, idk how you'd do it in project m

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

watching ripple play marshall on fd makes ddd look almost like a good character

almost

instead it makes ripple look like a god

damnit if only that upsmash would have killed we would have been saved from game and watch-mageddon

 

[DMG]

DDD is indeed not a good character.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

also wrt to puff:

watching hbox beat pm players and figure out what he can and can't do on the fly is one of the most viscerally satisfying things to watch

 

[Ripple]

watching ripple play marshall on fd makes ddd look almost like a good character

almost

instead it makes ripple look like a god

damnit if only that upsmash would have killed we would have been saved from game and watch-mageddon

I don't lose on FD.

 

[DMG]

I don't lose on FD.

If we play Drunk Mario Party together, I'm banning whatever map resembles FD the closest

 

[Deleted member]

soulpech beat strong bad at sns

is puff good

or did strong bad just get memed on

also hbox did things

idk if adam will admit it but after forte 3 and super bit wars he basically didnt play at all until a week before sns. and like yeah hes still really good but a 3 month hiatus with zero play is def going to pull you down to some degree. thats not to take away from soul pech or anything, but i personally didnt expect strongbad to do all that great at sns specifically because of the break. like i dont enter anything but i still play a lot, he actually didnt play for 3 months.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

dk is broken

 

[Life]

I think it's safe to say we literally don't know anything in this thread

 

[Ripple]

next thing you know I'll win a national

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I think it's safe to say we literally don't know anything in this thread

hey, there WERE two wolfs AND two diddies in top 8, so we got that right

 

[MTL Kyle]

HEY GUYS I THINK DK IS NOT VIABLE HIS RECOVERY SUCKS HE CANT EDGEGUARD FOR **** AND HAVING A GOOD PUNISH GAME DOES NOT EXCUSE HAVING AN ASS NEUTRAL GAME I THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE HIS SIDE B TO A PROJECTILE SO HE CAN DEAL WITH ZONERS BETTER AND BUFF HIS VERTICAL RECOVERY SINCE HE LITERALLY LOSES 80-20 TO EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER WITH A METEOR BUT YEAH BACK TO THE PROJECTILE IT HAS TO BE A BARREL CUZ LOL MARIO ARCADE GAME XD AND IT HAS TO EXPLODE ON CONTACT AND BE USED FOR EDGEGUARDING CUZ LIKE RIGHT NOW DK IS LITERALLY THE WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME AND SUPER NOT VIABLE THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO AGAINST FLOATIES IS BACK AIR AND LIKE IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT LOL JUST PICK WARIO OR PUFF BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE VIABLE THAN DK XD PLEASE UPBOAT ME SO I CAN REACH THE PMDT AND WE CAN HAVE A BETTER BALANACED GAME XD

rofl

 

[trash?]

HEY GUYS I THINK DK IS NOT VIABLE HIS RECOVERY SUCKS HE CANT EDGEGUARD FOR **** AND HAVING A GOOD PUNISH GAME DOES NOT EXCUSE HAVING AN *** NEUTRAL GAME I THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE HIS SIDE B TO A PROJECTILE SO HE CAN DEAL WITH ZONERS BETTER AND BUFF HIS VERTICAL RECOVERY SINCE HE LITERALLY LOSES 80-20 TO EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER WITH A METEOR BUT YEAH BACK TO THE PROJECTILE IT HAS TO BE A BARREL CUZ LOL MARIO ARCADE GAME XD AND IT HAS TO EXPLODE ON CONTACT AND BE USED FOR EDGEGUARDING CUZ LIKE RIGHT NOW DK IS LITERALLY THE WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME AND SUPER NOT VIABLE THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO AGAINST FLOATIES IS BACK AIR AND LIKE IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT LOL JUST PICK WARIO OR PUFF BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE VIABLE THAN DK XD PLEASE UPBOAT ME SO I CAN REACH THE PMDT AND WE CAN HAVE A BETTER BALANACED GAME XD

rofl

considering this was your attempt at humor, you sound mad as hell my dude

 

[Player -0]

I'm pretty sure he's always mad.

MTL Kyle

Mad Triceratops Lynch Kyle

 

[_Chrome]

I'm pretty sure he's always mad.

MTL Kyle

Mad Triceratops Lynch Kyle

* Mad Triceratops Lynch Killa you lol ecksdee

 

[MTL Kyle]

considering this was your attempt at humor, you sound mad as hell my dude

it was an old thread in r/ssbpm when people here and there were circlejerking on how DK was literally the worst character in the game, unviable and utter ****.

with a dash of me, of course.

I'm pretty sure he's always mad.

MTL Kyle

Mad Triceratops Lynch Kyle

lmaooo

 

[trash?]

if that came before 3.5/3.6, it's not an incorrect belief. DK having touch of deaths meant pretty much nothing in 3.02 becuase basically everyone who mattered had ToDs in that version, and while those character still had great neutral DK wasn't anything special, so down he went

if after that, then yeah people are silly, he's not amazing but zero-to-deaths are zero-to-deaths, and once he has a punch charged he doesn't even need to care about DI

e:

there it is, pack it up folks

 

[Zach777]

I think DK is hype. People will say that anything is lame.

 

[nimigoha]

People are still saying DK has a bad neutral?

 

[MTL Kyle]

People are still saying DK has a bad neutral?

I think most PM players are prone to not understand what neutral is tbh lol

 

[DMG]

Lucario, Ness, and DK all have terrible neutral. Bad chars, don't let their amazing results fool you. Bot 5 bottom feeder trash

- This is what people believe

Kyle: PM neutral is the very brief moment you spend before trying to blatantly aggro meme on the opponent.

 

[Life]

I'm gonna go ahead and say an unpopular thing: DK's punish game, across the whole cast, is frequently overstated.

There are characters he can pretty consistently ToD, and he can occasionally get ToDs on basically everyone, but from what I've seen he doesn't quite ToD everyone all the time like people like to say.

Is it the best overall punish game of any character? Probably. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone with harder punishes that don't involve situational trump cards like Waft or Rest. But people can and do survive being touched by DK.

His large frame and unfortunate combo weight (Roy-esque fall speed) mean that a lot of his opponents get to punish him unusually hard, as well.

Alright, I said that so that I can talk about DK's neutral.

It's pretty much only bad if you're the type of player who has to just go in all the time. A waiting DK is a scary DK. He's got the dashdance for it, his hitboxes are huge, and a lot of DK's neutral options are also the ones that lead into those hard grab punishes: grab itself, nair, dash attack, tilts (DK can use dtilt similarly to how Marth players use it), etc etc etc. And a DK that isn't being pressured to move or press buttons all the time is a DK that's charging Giant Punch, and a full GP charge actually does mean death a lot of the time.

I welcome our new primate overlord, but I question how long his, uh, Reign will last. Is Thunderz just a phase, or will he stick around like June and friends? And exactly how much DO we know about this character?

And I guess the other question is this: when does the next shoe drop? Who's the next player who's going to break out and win a national? (Besides Lunchables. Kappa.) Who will they pilot? And what will we learn from it?

 

[Strong Badam]

People are still saying DK has a bad neutral?

It's way weaker than a ton of characters. Good is relative.

 

[trash?]

he is a monkey zangief. huge punishes off of unique grabs, once he's set up and gets neutral once he can win, and while the neutral is lacking it's still just good enough to put it all together, mixed in with all of his best players being known for godlike neutral ability that stretches it out

like, he's about as close to that grappler dynamic you can get in a smash game while still keeping it very much like a smash game. it's neat

e: also I just realized his upb is a lariat that recovers in the air. how did I never notice this before wtf

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

And I guess the other question is this: when does the next shoe drop? Who's the next player who's going to break out and win a national? (Besides Lunchables. .) Who will they pilot? And what will we learn from it?

it's gonna be ilovebagelz screenshot this

nah jk (or am I kidding? probably not) but legitimately I could see a metaknight player from a region that never travels taking a national or something (aka midwest or norcal)

 

[Luk101]

it's gonna be ilovebagelz screenshot this

I would be so happy if Bagelz did do that well. Luigi may be annoying to play, but damn is he awesome to watch.

 

[SoulPech]

Well, I did SD once game one, but it was still a 2-0. He played a good bit more patient than me and also seemed to know a lot more nuances of the matchup than me, for example he rested my Up-B landing recovery a couple times and didn't get combo'd by Bite ever. I believe he plays Carls, a pretty strong Wario player from Ohio, and has for a few years now. I still think Wario has an advantage in the MU. SoulPech feel free to confirm or deny or add any extra thoughts on the MU.

ATM I feel I would almost definitely lose to Hbox. I think that's more about Hbox's skill than Puff's ability in this game though.

I thoroughly know the Wario v Jiggs Matchup because I've been playing that Matchup with Carls for 4+ years (confirming what Strongbad has said).

Wario has a slight advantage if he is aggressive with his Aerials. Nair messes up most of Puff's approaches and Fair strings can link up to 30+ percent if Puff DI's out. Mixing up empty jumps and jump + bite or Nair makes Puff cry. She's forced to play a more ground game or a low nair style game.


I am also a firm believer that Puff is better than what most players give her credit for.

 

[nimigoha]

It's way weaker than a ton of characters. Good is relative.

In a game with Diddy+Banana and Fox, definitely relative. I think his mobility is really underrated though, looking at air speed, jump height, run/dash speed, fast fall speed, dash dance distance, etc. He's like top third in a lot of categories movement-wise, and he has a good bit of frame data to back that up (Nair even on shield with jab mixup, Dtilt).

 

[Jolteon]

It's way weaker than a ton of characters. Good is relative.

More people need to realise both this. When someone says that DK is bottom 5, or has a bad neutral, it in no way has the same meaning as it would in Melee, where winning a major with a character and claiming that they are that bad would be completely ludicrous.

 

[Luk101]

This was Junebug's old tier list:

And this is his new one:

Pretty big difference on almost every character.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

>pit, ness, link, DK, and Zelda being higher than Luigi

What is this

 

[Luk101]

>pit, ness, link, DK, and Zelda being higher than Luigi

What is this

I mean, Ness and DK have had a lot of tournament success, so people kinda gotta represent that in their tier lists.

As for Pit, link and Zelda, I could see them being lower, but I still think pit is pretty good.