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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
nair is god
ThegreatVaporeon1
Smash Ace
Approaching as MK is hard though. Samus can build a missile wall and all MK really has to counter it is power shield. MK has good juggling tools on Samus though, with uair x 90000 to a finisher, but if he can't really approach, then those tools wont help him too much. And samus can ban fd
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Kushina43
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2015
- Messages
- 193
Not to mention DA clanks with any clank-able move regardless of percent difference iirc
Even clanks aerials last I checked
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I don't know about that "regardless of percent difference" bit, but it definitely clanks aerials. Yhat's goofy at.
Life
Smash Hero
3.02 has as much bearing on 3.6 as 2.6 and 2.1 did; not all that much. (Still trying to figure out who thought MK's old dair was a good idea. Sure, let's give a character with multiple double jumps an angleable disjointed divekick with barely any landing lag, because it's *canon* (to a similar move that only went straight down and was very laggy). What could go wrong? I'm still salty.)
When I don't know much about something (such as Samus vs MK) I kinda just repeat what I hear. >.>
When I don't know much about something (such as Samus vs MK) I kinda just repeat what I hear. >.>
D
Deleted member
Guest
personally i'll never understand why anyone says samus beats any of the top tiers. wolf mk rob mewtwo and zss sound awful on paper, cf sheik are still pretty bad, maybe diddy and fox are doable? do not understand. pm players are hella optimistic lol
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
having that kind of high/low mobility option when the rest of you is as good as metaknight is still p busted
kinda surprised that sonic's divekick stayed around as long as it did but hey sonic has a lot of other stupid stuff that also is still in
kinda surprised that sonic's divekick stayed around as long as it did but hey sonic has a lot of other stupid stuff that also is still in
eideeiit
Smash Ace
Mk 3.0 dair being negatively disjointed was like ROB's 3.6b weight iirc.
Sonic is fun, I can't wait to get good and time-out Ganons with him.
Sonic is fun, I can't wait to get good and time-out Ganons with him.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
It wasn't negatively disjointed. It just didnt cover the entire sword.
I definitely dont think flipp living to 281 on dreamland vs junebug was a snake on dreamland problem, I think it was a diddy vs heavy on dreamland problem.
Diddy is definitely really good on dreamland beacuse of how much space it gives him, but damn he struggles to find kills on snake on that stage once the snake learns how to get around dair through cypher
Although I think dreamland is really polarizing for other reasons, generally circle camping
Diddy is definitely really good on dreamland beacuse of how much space it gives him, but damn he struggles to find kills on snake on that stage once the snake learns how to get around dair through cypher
Although I think dreamland is really polarizing for other reasons, generally circle camping
Yeah it still follows the rule of high-low, so if something does sufficient percent, it'll beat the dash attack.
Scrubtorights
Smash Cadet
The simple answer is no and their won't be a one for a while.
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
tier list defined as a rough grouping of characters into "tiers" of relative tournament result prevalence/perceived theoretical quality? more or less
tier list defined as a rough power ranking with brackets to define various cutoffs of viability (as with most melee tierlists)? no, not really
complete powerranking of characters based on matchup numbers and weighted for character prevalence? not a chance in hell and most likely never
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ThegreatVaporeon1
Smash Ace
There are characters that are agreed upon to be on top, in no particular order, such as Diddy, Snake, Fox, Wolf, Falcon, Sheik. But for an official tier list like melee or brawl has, no not really.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Why don't we go through hotly debated characters that are thought to be over/underrated?
Then we can put the points on a google doc and refer to it later/eventually get to a tier list (obviously it'll change but meta changes y'know).
Like Snake or Ness first.
- As Ness has gotten top 8 at various tournaments despite being noted mid tier by many. We go through tournaments/players at tournaments/brackets for players.
- Snake because how tf do people dank snake. (I need to watch them videos)
Then we can put the points on a google doc and refer to it later/eventually get to a tier list (obviously it'll change but meta changes y'know).
Like Snake or Ness first.
- As Ness has gotten top 8 at various tournaments despite being noted mid tier by many. We go through tournaments/players at tournaments/brackets for players.
- Snake because how tf do people dank snake. (I need to watch them videos)
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
watching ganon in pm seems be more than a little similar to watching grapplers in (insert your favorite fighting game here)
like everyone knows they're kind of bad but they also know that they're explosive if they get the opponent caught in the wrong series of mixups can end someone's life really quickly
and the notable thing is that they'll always have their dedicated base of players who always get consistent (if not always spectacular) results
that being said, ganon is really annoying to play against some times
like everyone knows they're kind of bad but they also know that they're explosive if they get the opponent caught in the wrong series of mixups can end someone's life really quickly
and the notable thing is that they'll always have their dedicated base of players who always get consistent (if not always spectacular) results
that being said, ganon is really annoying to play against some times
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
In theory it's due to a skewed punish game.
If Samus's average punish is worth 7 points and Wolf's average punish is worth 3 points, then even if Wolf wins neutral *twice* as often, Samus is still getting the better end of the deal. I'm not sure if she actually wins any of those matchups, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised either.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
The theory is closer to Samus' punish being a 1 and their's being a 2 but Samus has like twice as much health. I think she is around even with Diddy Wolf Fox and loses to the rest.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Comes to the same thing. It's the strength of the punish relative to how much is required to actually kill X character. In Samus's case, that's usually quite a bit.
KinGly
Smash Journeyman
MURRICA!!!
Life
Smash Hero
Projectiles in general have counterplay in the form of powershielding, moving around them (ducking, jumping, rolling, running out of range, WDOOS), swatting them (depending on which ones), catching them (for items), or using reflectors, PSI Magnet or GnW bucket on them. Obviously no single one of those things is equally useful--powershielding is not super consistent and puts you in shield, moving and swatting depends on your character, and catching items depends also on your character because some have bad item throws. Plus some of them have undesirable side effects--you can run out of Tink's boomerang range, but then you just gave him the whole stage.
DK has a big hurtbox so it's only natural that he has trouble avoiding things. Not surprising at all that TL is a pain for him. That said, I haven't actually watched Thunderz vs Lunchables, so I couldn't tell you what he could do better. My shot in the dark would be more patience? Look at Zangief in Street Fighter. But again, I'm not about to tell Thunderz how to play his character in a matchup I haven't seen.
DK has a big hurtbox so it's only natural that he has trouble avoiding things. Not surprising at all that TL is a pain for him. That said, I haven't actually watched Thunderz vs Lunchables, so I couldn't tell you what he could do better. My shot in the dark would be more patience? Look at Zangief in Street Fighter. But again, I'm not about to tell Thunderz how to play his character in a matchup I haven't seen.
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Luk101
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2015
- Messages
- 66
nimigoha
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2014
- Messages
- 877
I wouldn't call it "so sad". There wasn't a point where it looked terrible for Thunderz. He was struggling in the neutral for sure but that's a given for almost any character slower than Tink.
Game 1 and game 3 were both last stock. He also got killed really early off of Dair spike in that first game.
Also who was TOing Big Balc and why are they still living in 2015 when people thought Stage First was even close to a fair option in PM.
Who is TOing SNS/LTC4 and do they make better life choices?
Game 1 and game 3 were both last stock. He also got killed really early off of Dair spike in that first game.
Also who was TOing Big Balc and why are they still living in 2015 when people thought Stage First was even close to a fair option in PM.
Who is TOing SNS/LTC4 and do they make better life choices?
JOE!
Smash Hero
Watching all the spot dodges in that set reminded me... even if they were sorta kinda normalized, what is the reasoning behind everyone having drastically different dodges?
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
We couldn't have Bowser being a playable character :/
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
sonick's is pretty nice though A++++ would spotdodge again
Luk101
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2015
- Messages
- 66
Malachi is a monster. I think that was the first time I've ever seen a Tink (and DVD for that matter) actually look like he was struggling.
Also on spotdodges, where would I find a "tier list" of them? I heard samus has a really good spotdodge.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...__Ts1A6NTVKx3y8fnfO9AWwVg/edit#gid=2027605070
Under the tab titled "Rolls."
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
Samus' spotdodge was nerfed by 2 frames iirc with the last normalization. Might have been some weird length change plus invincibility change I don't remember. I'm salty about my over 100% ledge attack invincibility nerf though. "GUN PUNCH" was my strongest secret technique.
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JOE!
Smash Hero
That sorta makes sense, but at the same time isn't it kind of arbitrary? Why did characters with questionable defenses also get questionable dodges? lol