Are Wolf and Link really that high?
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Wolf probably, as even a bad spacie is really stretching the definition of bad.
I don't know enough about Link to really comment, but my gut says somewhere above average is right.
I don't know enough about Link to really comment, but my gut says somewhere above average is right.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
My opinion on Link is biased since I have trouble with him as both my primary characters (Zard and Ness)
SwordsRbroken
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2009
- Messages
- 104
pretty sure the words "bad" and "spacie" should never be used in the same sentence
ItalianStallion
Smash Journeyman
I have so much trouble against Link with Zard. J666 murdered me last time we played. I want to play him again to see if I have a fighting chance now that I've gotten better.
I think that PM is so well balanced that we can't actually have tiers anymore, and frankly by the mere suggestion of a tier list you are doing this game a huge disservice. The only reason people think characters are low tier in PM is because they think tier lists have to exist, and they really don't understand how the character works. Like Ness for example, is really good. I beat all my friends with him, even a really good Fox, so you just need to learn Ness. Especially because his DJC is so good for mindgames.
So here is my "tier list" for Project M.
Top Tier:
Everybody
Although if I had to have a best character in the game, which personally I don't think exists but people seem to think there has to be one, it would be Bowser. He kills with his Fsmash so early and it can break shields. It's pretty OP, but every character can be OP in this game so its okay.
So here is my "tier list" for Project M.
Top Tier:
Everybody
Although if I had to have a best character in the game, which personally I don't think exists but people seem to think there has to be one, it would be Bowser. He kills with his Fsmash so early and it can break shields. It's pretty OP, but every character can be OP in this game so its okay.
metroid1117
Smash Master
X character versus spacie is a bad match-up for X character.
I have to review the matches I had with Hylian on Wednesday, but I played some Link-Charizard matches and didn't feel like it was particularly bad. Try recording next time you play him and I'll look it over.
EDIT: Here's two games that we played and here's a third. Link's projectiles are a nuisance if you give him the space to use them. Generally though, Charizard's WD OoS is just fast enough and his grab range is long enough that if you rush Link while he throws a projectile, you can generally punish him if you shield it. Both characters can punish each other really well though (Link's UTilt is nasty and his projectiles can harass you pretty badly as you get back to the ground, while Charizard is great at juggles and edgeguarding), so the match can get flipped pretty quickly. Hylian is pretty much the only Link I've played in a long time and I don't know how much Charizard experience he has though, so we could be playing the match-up sub-optimally. Even so, I don't think it's particularly hard for Charizard.
Beautiful Death
Smash Journeyman
You're serious? You're not serious.
on duty
Beautiful Death
Smash Journeyman
By the way I had a thought. You know how Jigglypuff's uh, you know, the taunt where she deflates and falls down. That effects her hitbox right? Well you guys should make it faster/less recovery so she can use it to dodge things. Kinda like Blanka from Street Fighter. You would be able to down taunt and avoid moves! Like, make it a viable move. That would be sick.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I'd rather her F- and B-throws send at a lower angle to set up edge stuff more readily myself.
Pwnz0rz Man
Smash Lord
But then what am I supposed to do with all these Moon Stones?
theindievisual
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 6
When yall discuss balance, is your ideal balance that everyone was S-tier like fox? Or that it's nice and safe all across mid-tier?
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
Fox is as good as he is because in addition to certain uncharacteristically good moves (uair, usmash), has has incredible speed and an abusable 1 frame all-utility move (shine) that takes advantage of his speed. If a character wants to be as good as Fox, they need some gimmick like shine that is "broken", and they need real character attributes that put that character well ahead the PM2.6 cast. I don't think you can give 32 characters (yet alone 10 characters) a silly 1 frame-esque gimmick, some overblown stat similar to speed, and crazy kill moves without homogenizing the play styles in the game. I mean, 2.5 Sonic in a way was the "new fox" with infinite possibilities. But if we get 10 characters like that, how far can we push it without making everyone a fast rush down character?
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
So now we know, beyond reasonable doubt, that Prof. Pro's feelings towards life directly correlate with the placement of Snake on tier lists.
It's science.
It's science.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
You understand me, marry me?
leelue
Smash Lord
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
How many tournament wins does it take for results to have weight on tiers?
Infinitely many.
Infinitely many.
Let's pick a date and argue about who we will hire to do the flowers.
SunJester
Smash Ace
My Tier list
A: Frame 1 Moves
B: My character
C: All other characters
F: My former character that got nerfed.
A: Frame 1 Moves
B: My character
C: All other characters
F: My former character that got nerfed.
Frame 1 moves aren't even good anymore. Not even invincible. Marth tier at least.
Vashimus
Smash Master
All spacie-playing weenies will be beaten senseless by every able-bodied patron in the forum.
Welcome to Dragon's Crown. I would probably be gushing all over it if the art wasn't so ridiculous
Spiffykins
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2012
- Messages
- 547
I don't think any character should be as good as Fox, including Fox. His design isn't sacred. Character goodness is relative, but I don't just say that because he's dabest (or close to). Like if NTSC Melee Marth was unarguably #1 and the S tiers were just below him, maybe that would have resulted in Melee's metagame being more varied and interesting.
I'm all about fast-paced matches and crazy combos and DDing and all that jazz, but I dunno, you have to draw the line somewhere, and personally I'd draw it a bit below Fox's level.
Her run animation is ****ing hilarious.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Some parts of this list are amazing while others make me scratch my head. How did Puff get so low, I recognize she's got so many new challenges that she doesn't quite do well against. Still...7th from the bottom? Below GnW and Ness?
Hungrybox is really the only good player that represents Puff nowadays and he doesn't regularly play PM, so along with his plethora of mediocre match ups and his lack of results, people are naturally going to place Jiggs lower on the tier list unless proven otherwise.