Thriller Brawl Ruleset Discussion

[Shaya]

Game Rules

• Match Settings: 3 Stock | 8 Minute Timer | Items set to "off" and "none"
• Matches are played as best of three sets. Championship and Finals (Winners, Losers Semi, Losers) sets are best of five.
• Matches ending with suicide moves that result in Sudden Death have the initiator of the move declared winner.
• (A) In the case of a match going to time, Sudden Death is not played.
• A player may not select a stage which they have already won on in the set, unless the opponent agrees.
• Players are responsible for their own controllers (including connectivity, battery life, etc) and control settings.
  [*]No unnecessary pausing of the game.
  [*](B) Stalling is banned.
  [*]Actions that cause glitches and/or game freezes which prevent the game from continuing are the responsibility of the player.
  [*]Extension (Infinite or otherwise) of Meta Knight's Dimension Cape / Down B is banned.
  [*]Mewtwo and Pichu are banned.
  [*]ROY HAS TEH PH1R3.

The above listed yellow actions may result in the player responsible forfeiting the MATCH or SET. Tournament Organiser's disgression.

General Rules

• Playing non-tournament matches without a Tournament Organiser's consent may result in disqualification.
• Players may forfeit games and/or sets if their match has been called by a TO and is not started within reasonable time. Please inform a TO of any situations that may hinder you from playing.
• Players have the right to remove an SD card from a wii before play.
• Homebrew / Modded Wiis must NOT alter game play, characters or stage designs. Stage/Character textures or replacement music must not make the game unplayable or uncomfortable for an individual player.
• Have a shower and use deodorant.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) Time Out Procedures:​

In the case of a time out the winner(s) of the match are declared by (in order):

1. (Singles Only; Meta Knight only) If the player has more than 25 Ledge Grabs they forfeit the match.
2. Highest [combined] stock count.
3. Lowest [combined] percentage.

In the case of not being able to declare a winner, a One Stock Four Minute Decider is played with the same characters and stage.
In the case of the Decider time out with the previous conditions, Sudden Death is played out.

B) Stalling
The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling.
​

Set Procedure

1. Opponents select their ports*.
2. Opponents choose their characters. Double blind selection may be called if a player wishes it.
3. Opponents strike the starter stages one at a time until there is one remaining*. The first match of the set is played on said stage.
4. After the match is played the winner may declare a legal stage banned.
5. The previous match's loser selects a remaining legal stage to be played on.
6. If the previous match's loser wishes to, they may also counterpick a port.
7. The winner of the previous match picks character first. The loser then picks their character.
8. Steps 4-7 are repeated until a set is completed.

(*)In the case of dispute, a best of one Rock, Paper, Scisors match is played. The winner may select preferred port OR which opponent strikes first. The loser obtains the unselected option.
​

Legal Stage List

Starters

Battlefield
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 1
Lylat Cruise
​

Counter-picks

Final Destination
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Pictochat
Brinstar​

Doubles Subset:

• Life Stealing is allowed.
• Team Attack set to ON
• Port Selection, unless in mutual agreement must be in a 1221 format (team 1/team 2)
• Doubles has additional stages, and hence teams may ban TWO of them during counter-picking.

Additional Doubles Legal Stages
Pirate Ship
Green Greens
Hanenbow
Norfair
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2​

Five starters or seven?

What do you guys think?
If you wish to complain about FD, please provide evidence through acted out stage striking procedures for concerning match ups that result in you getting a stage that is significantly more disadvantaged to you than before.[/b]

 

[luke_atyeo]

personally I like 5 starters the best.
also is hannenbow still legal in doubles?
no pirate ship?
and you forgot to put this rule

*players who yell in other players ears are subject to being hit in the head.

 

[C~Dog]

Doubles Stages:

Jungle Japes
Rainbow Ride
Pirate Ship

And have a 5 Starter set.

 

[I LAG]

the 5 starters are fine

and for dubs add rainbow ride and port town aero dive

 

[...Ellipsis...]

No go back to three starters which are actually neutral (relatively speaking). Get Lylat the hell off and PS1 is also pretty ****. Move them to counter-picks. Also note I use MK so I would be biased in favour of lylat generally but, I really don't think it is neutral. Also FD and castle siege are in no way neutral, but if you decide to add them in I guess I'm lucky I picked up D3 chain grabs.

 

[Leisha]

Send Lylat and Castle seige back to cp, and keep FD neutral imo. just stick with the 5 neutrals if anything. Also why does FD have Question marks in neutral? Would be silly to stage to put as counter-pick xD.
FDs only stupid if its playing against a falco and with ledge grab limit.

 

[C~Dog]

Or playing against a ROB...

 

[Leisha]

Not really, ROB is still approachable. Falcos lasers are more consistent so its alot more difficult to approach, unless of course you have a reflector. Plus FD isn't really a fantastic stage for rob anyways xD Rob can probably get out 2 lasers by the time falco shoots 10 lolol. Personally I would like this stage so I could at least stand a chance against MK as-well.

Also kirby can just duck and avoid falcos lasers xD

 

[M]

lol. ROB on FD is nothing.

Liking the look of the starters, but as everyone's saying, add the doubles cps.

Personally I think Castle Seige should definitely be kept out of neutrals. I believe we had the CS discussion before Shaya, and forgot to mention the occasional tendancy of the stage to drag you into the bottom blastzone if you're "offstage" when the stage finishes transforming and can actually hurt a lot of the casts recoveries. Castle Seige has always been a bit iffy already but I think minor nuances like that which can easily take a stock by themself, should take away the stage's chance of really being neutral.

 

[Shaya]

Okay, added doubles subset w/extra stages.

Liam, Dedede aint good on Castle Siege. Unless he grabs you inbetween transformations or something, the second part is RUN AWAY. And the stage easily allows it.

Ricky, yeah Castle Siege has some of that fall through the stage stuff... As does pokemon stadium.

 

[TT Ogre 1]

I believe Roy has TEH PHIR3..

 

[Attila_]

yoshi's island (melee)? i lolled.

 

[M]

Ricky, yeah Castle Siege has some of that fall through the stage stuff... As does pokemon stadium.

It's not a fall through the stage thing, gravity literally pulls you down.

 

[Shaya]

yoshi's island (melee)? i lolled.

I added that into doubles?

 

[Attila_]

I added that into doubles?

yeah i saw.

*goes to pick up d3*

 

[ComboTurtle]

am i teaming with sam for doubles?

 

[swordsaint]

I think the starters disadvantage Falco. He's forced to play on either Yoshi's, Lylat or Pokemon Stadium first up. Considering a lot of the time, Falco can't win a set without winning the neutral.....urrrrrrrrrrrrrg, this sucks.

Also, Pokemon Stadium 2 in singles is a TERRIBLE idea. The stage is so bad, and you're spending more time fighting the stage than your enemy imo.
The ice part, while fun in friendlies isn't good for tournament play.
The flying part, is rather silly. It screws with jumps, and a character with multiple jumps could easily camp to time out from up there, at least for a while.
The electricity part you spend WAY WAY WAY more time fighting the escalator things which push you off stage.

I can complain more.

 

[Attila_]

I think the starters disadvantage Falco. He's forced to play on either Yoshi's, Lylat or Pokemon Stadium first up. Considering a lot of the time, Falco can't win a set without winning the neutral.....urrrrrrrrrrrrrg, this sucks.

ive already tried this in the melbourne thread. doesnt work. marth, wario and mk are more important than falco/ics/diddy.

 

[Silfa]

Pokemon Stadium 2 is in doubles cp. Edit: oh wait, it's in singles too, lol.

Yoshi's Island melee? I don't understand.

 

[swordsaint]

All I see is Shaya trying to increase the stage list to make a major more interesting. When in fact, nothing needs fixing. If the neutrals before were making Falco better than he needs to be, why aren't I winning? Is it because you're better than me? Oh, so you're winning because you're better than me? That sounds fair guys.

 

[Alzi]

Lol FD as a counterpick?

Seriously shaya put it back as a starter and if you want to stick with 5 then either replace it over Pokemon stadium 1 or lylat cruise.

swordsaint is right btw.

The starter stages do **** up a few characters and it's unfair.

 

[C~Dog]

Take out Yoshis Island Melee, and keep PS2 in singles.

 

[swordsaint]

I don't understand what people see in Pokemon Stadium 2.

 

[SummonerAU]

I know what I see in PS2

A whole lot of lame and gay.

 

[M]

Well, see here. Everyone knows that Pokemon Stadium 2 is a dumb choice, so nobody in their right mind would choose it in a serious tournament set anyway. It's there for the hell of it guys, isn't TOOOO obstructive, and doesn't give anyone a clear advantage.

 

[Shaya]

I think the starters disadvantage Falco. He's forced to play on either Yoshi's, Lylat or Pokemon Stadium first up. Considering a lot of the time, Falco can't win a set without winning the neutral.....urrrrrrrrrrrrrg, this sucks.

Is Pokemon Stadium a bad stage for Falco?
Its large, its flat most of the time... you have counterpicked it against me before...

You guys are throwing out OMG SO UNFAIR ITS ALL AGAINST ICS, FALCO, DIDDY ALL FOR MARTH, MK AND WHOEVER...

So honestly, the worst stage Falco will ever be forced to on a starter is stadium...
Just because Battlefield is a better stage for Falco than Stadium (wait, is it?) doesnt mean he automaticly is at a disadvantage...
If your character can ONLY function on one or two stages how are they viable in the first place? Does Stadium actually skew match ups against Falco? I almost believe these 5 starter stages give Falco a better starter in most situations than before...
Also everyone, lets NOT be like Attila and throw out SO UNFAIR FOR X CHARACTERS without following my suggested argument of how the stage striking process will work out for you.

Also I removed Yoshis Island melee.
Stadium 2 as doubles only.

Yes more variety is more interesting. Three may be a better choice though in this situation (as in due to the time between now and thriller). But my beliefs of are that there should be more starters than less.

 

[swordsaint]

I counterpicked it against you back in our first losers finals because you "limited my options", and I had no idea where to go. Suffice to say, I believe I lost.

Anywho, I could list a number of reasons I shouldn't counterpick it. However I do know it's not entirely bad either. Being forced there to have a fighting chance sucks balls like Alzi though.

 

[C~Dog]

Sliding Smashes is the best thing ever.

 

[Shaya]

You won on Pokemon Stadium !_!

But on stadium are your chances that much drastically reduced?
:S

 

[SummonerAU]

Shaya, I don't think you've mention pools in the ruleset. Will there be the standard pool rules you normally run when you have pools or will pools be best of 3 matches with 5 starters as well?

 

[swordsaint]

I agree with more variety Shaya. I don't mind 5, it WOULD make things more interesting, but what should we actually use.
You've suggested Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Lylat Cruise and Pokemon Stadium 1. I think it's hard to find a healthy average for starters, because just removing Pokemon Stadium for Final Destination means Falco get's either BF or SV. Leaving it in, while not completely disastrous, might give other characters that aim for timeouts an edge. As everyone knows, Pokemon Stadium has some good places to just whittle down the clock.

I'd agree with you Shaya about PS1 > FD, but what about Lylat? That's not all that good if you think about characters who require lots of auto-cancelling and precise recoveries, but that's the negatives of the stage on some characters. The positives of it (if you really think it's that positive) is that it's floaty characters (-Peach) a mild advantage, because they're not affected by the slants and precision recovery. As well as the fact, having Lylat, PS1 and BF all in the starters is actually giving Snake a starter counterpick. They are afterall, decent stages for him.

**** Brawl.

@Shaya. I won hey? I didn't realise. Anyway, there are OTHER reasons.

To be honest, I don't think stage striking is a viable form when it comes to a larger starter set. Cancelling seems more appropriate since it's near impossible to balance the starters among all characters.

 

[Alzi]

Shaya are you seriously having FD as a counterpick? LOL.

And just because he won on pokemon stadium doesn't mean it's a good falco stage it just means you played bad shaya.

 

[SummonerAU]

Oh Alzi, maybe you should ask why he took it off?

 

[C~Dog]

I'll play people on FD as long as I can copy their projectile at the start of the match.

 

[SummonerAU]

You want to copy my Final Cutter?!?!?!

 

[Shaya]

Against Meta Knight/Marth:
Falco strikes Lylat, YI
MK strikes smashville
-> MK would most likely strike PS1 as well. Other than during transformations, he is at a similar (arguably worse as he cannot glide under the stage, or abuse a moving platform) than on SV.
-> I wouldnt want to do PS1/smashville against Falco for the size reasons listed above. Most likely a set will start on battlefield.

Against Snake:
Falco strikes Lylat, (and most likely) YI.
PS1 is a good Snake stage due to the roof and transformations, but would seem its his choice on whether it goes to battlefield, sv or stadium.

Against Diddy:
Well, hurr durr, youd probably get rid of Lylat and Stadium. Stage will be smashville or battlefield.

Against Ice Climbers:
Falco doesnt want Battlefield. Out of the five stages, SV and Stadium are probably his best in the match up. Im not sure how this would go about...

Against Marth (above)

Against Wario:
You dont like Battlefield or Lylat. Wario doesnt like Stadium nor smashville. You get Yoshis Island like you do now...

Against Pikachu:
You would strike Stadium and Lylat most likely. Maybe replace stadium (as Tjolts is what makes that lame) with Smashville.

With these five stages when are you forced onto Stadium and put in a bad way because of it? I can really only see Snake getting the lols here against Falco.

Seriously, please present your arguments like this, are you guys actually THINKING about how the starter stage will turn out in most situations? Stage striking is an AMAZING process which PROMOTES having MORE STAGES.


-

Snakes an odd fellow, he seems to get more power with these 5 starters, I agree.
Snake thrives on starters like a lot of characters do though. His choice between 3 stages arent constant though either.
LUKE cps Stadium / Frigate / Lylat. Lylat is a good stage for Snake but IMO, he doesnt really gain huge advantages against anyone unless they already struggle on the stage. Marth, MK, Pit, ROB, actually A LOT of Snakes evenish match ups do WELL on Lylat. It is honestly (even though not likely to be selected often as a starter at the moment) probably the most neutral stage between Snake and several characters.

 

[Alzi]

If stage striking is an amazing process why on earth don't you have FD UP THERE SHAYA.

If i vs you in a tournament match C~DOG and shaya still has decided to put FD as a counterpick i will agree on starting on FD and you can suck me up start of the match.

 

[swordsaint]

I don't mind Battlefield against Icies...It's actually half decent. Ehhhhhh, I can see people taking Falco to Pokemon Stadium though, in comparison to others stages, it's not all about what player A's character is good on. A neutral stage that benefits both, or Pokemon stadium that has no set backs to Player A, but a small amount to player B.

Anyway, cbf posting as much as you do Shaya. Too much effort.

 

[Shaya]

If stage striking is an amazing process why on earth don't you have FD UP THERE SHAYA.

Because striking is an amazing system that has to have an amazingly balanced list to go with it.

Final Destination AND smashville together do not work until the starter list is 7 stages.

 

[Alzi]

Well make it seven then or replace FD with either lylat or stadium. Simple.

swordsaint Shaya is a mod very intelegent people who post effort into their post. I knew Shaya was going to be mod one day btw same with Vlade and it happen. But scabe is the one that suprised me the most scabe is full of suprises anyway.

swordsaint just go Metaknight then unleash the anger inside you? Or if shaya doesn't change the stages just play gay against him when you vs him lol.