/thread

[Psychoace]

Yeah you'd be better off just dropping a bomb there at the edge.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Yeah you'd be better off just dropping a bomb there at the edge.

Which still sort of isn't that great for an edgeguard, but it's okay if you know how long they take to explode and such.(In which case I don't really, cause I can't really find a use for her bombs, except that occasional drop one and hit into it, and chain out of that.)

 

[Tim-Tim]

i would suggest nair > dair on falcon.
it comes out faster and lasts longer.
but i'd still say its not really a good gimping move on him but its a better alt. n_n'

 

[icedragon-]

I'm really loving this thread and the other threads here as well. I picked up Samus a little while ago and I've already learned so much about her! I learned to double homing missile and triple homing missle cancel. I learned how to cancel the lag of her bomb attack. Despite samus being nerfed, she still has a lot to offer. And of course, I don't know everything and I'm always willing to learn.

In regards to Falcon, I agree with everything you guys have to say. Samus obviously has the advantage but that doesn't mean he should be taken lightly. The whole world knows Falcon was nerfed to incredible amounts but that doesn't mean he still can't put up a fight. Thank you guys for discussing these matchups in detail. I'm not the best brawler so I should take advantage of the shared knowledge around here (everywhere actually). I don't post very often because I'm still not used to SWF; the formatting, the layout, the variety, etc.

I have an AiB account but with a slightly different name. That name being icewaterdragon. I was afraid that my name would be too long to fit on the line above my avatar. I joined AiB during summer so I do have an understanding of the characters in ssbb, they're weaknesses, strengths, pros, and cons. If it wouldn't be too much to ask, how does one subscribe to a topic here?

 

[The Milk Monster]

I'm really loving this thread and the other threads here as well. I picked up Samus a little while ago and I've already learned so much about her! I learned to double homing missile and triple homing missle cancel. I learned how to cancel the lag of her bomb attack. Despite samus being nerfed, she still has a lot to offer. And of course, I don't know everything and I'm always willing to learn.

In regards to Falcon, I agree with everything you guys have to say. Samus obviously has the advantage but that doesn't mean he should be taken lightly. The whole world knows Falcon was nerfed to incredible amounts but that doesn't mean he still can't put up a fight. Thank you guys for discussing these matchups in detail. I'm not the best brawler so I should take advantage of the shared knowledge around here (everywhere actually). I don't post very often because I'm still not used to SWF; the formatting, the layout, the variety, etc.

I have an AiB account but with a slightly different name. That name being icewaterdragon. I was afraid that my name would be too long to fit on the line above my avatar. I joined AiB during summer so I do have an understanding of the characters in ssbb, they're weaknesses, strengths, pros, and cons. If it wouldn't be too much to ask, how does one subscribe to a topic here?

All opinions are welcome so feel free to post any input!
To subscribe just post on a topic.
Knowing is half the battle as most say, so just learn then apply.

 

[Crystanium]

The discussion between Samus and Captain Falcon has ended today. We are now discussing Diddy Kong. Please give your input on this, and if you would like, participate in playing against any Diddy Kong mains in the Diddy Kong Character Discussion along with me.

 

[Face124]

The falcon matchup thread says that it is 55-45 Samus, I disagree with this and I'm sure some of you will too. Go and shout at them.

 

[Crystanium]

The falcon matchup thread says that it is 55-45 Samus, I disagree with this and I'm sure some of you will too. Go and shout at them.

It's fine if they say it's 55-45. Samus wins either way.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Is Samus's Glide toss even worth acknowledging?
I haven't played many Diddy's with Samus.

 

[n00b]

^ of course it is.

My general strategy against diddy is dash attack or airdodge-> zair to catch a banana, then camp like hell and hold onto that banana.

You can do all your missile cancels, uncharged shots, and zairs WITHOUT letting go of the banana. You can shield with your banana, if he gets too close, you can up b OOS while holding the banana, or glide toss downward to fsmash/dsmash/dtilt whatever punishment.

With that said, I lost to Nanerz 0-2.

 

[koldstare64]

imo, the matchup is 40-60 diddy. To me it really comes down to how good the banana game is, and if it's good then I'm done for. If it weren't for bananas I'd call it a neutral matchup, but sadly that isn't the case.

 

[Crystanium]

imo, the matchup is 40-60 diddy. To me it really comes down to how good the banana game is, and if it's good then I'm done for. If it weren't for bananas I'd call it a neutral matchup, but sadly that isn't the case.

It's nice to see you here at Smash World Forums, koldstare64. I think the Diddy Kong board also went with 40-60, Diddy Kong's favor. I checked Vyse's match-up thread, and while I was looking for Samus in particular, I was finding Zero Suit Samus. Still, when it said Samus vs. Diddy Kong, the description fit Samus instead of Zero Suit Samus.

I also agree that without the Banana Peels, or if you are good at using the Banana Peels against Diddy Kong, the match-up might be reduced. I was thinking 45-55, but I don't know if using two match-up ratios would be permissible. I mean, if we were to discuss Donkey Kong versus King Dedede, for example, and we were to talk about the match-up, were King Dedede to not use an infinite chain-grab, then the match-up ratio would be different.

 

[RPK]

Well, be aware, you also dont get as messed up by his bananas as other characters do. And, IMO, he doesnt have that good of an answer to ledge camping besides bananas. So, you can also wait out those bananas till theyre gone. -shrugs- Or if there is a banana on the edge, you can grab it and take it then do the above. 1 banana Diddy, is still pretty bad, but not as bad...

 

[tha_carter]

60-40 samus; if diddy has no bananas

50-50 samus; if diddy has one banana

65-35 Diddy; if diddy has two bananas

With that being said, its obvious what the objective should be. Samus, does have one of the better glide tosses, make use of it. And to add to n00bs post; you can also hold on to a banana while smashing. To do this hold 'A' down and smash with the analog and "Z" (assmusing default controls). And you can also do aerials with a banana by dropping the banana with "Z" and then immediately doing the aerial attack.

Try to hold on to banana's as long as possible, and hover over the other banana if he has it out. Diddy will be alot more comfortable with controlling bananas, so its not easy. But, the better you become at doing so, the easier the match will be.

 

[Crystanium]

60-40 samus; if diddy has no bananas

50-50 samus; if diddy has one banana

65-35 Samus; if diddy has two bananas

With that being said, its obvious what the objective should be. Samus, does have one of the better glide tosses, make use of it. And to add to n00bs post; you can also hold on to a banana while smashing. To do this hold 'A' down and smash with the analog and "Z" (assmusing default controls). And you can also do aerials with a banana by dropping the banana with "Z" and then immediately doing the aerial attack.

Try to hold on to banana's as long as possible, and hover over the other banana if he has it out. Diddy will be alot more comfortable with controlling bananas, so its not easy. But, the better you become at doing so, the easier the match will be.

I don't get what you put, tha_carter. If Diddy Kong doesn't have any Banana Peels, shouldn't the match be easier for Samus? You say it's 50-50 if Diddy Kong has one Banana Peel. From my experience, if Diddy Kong does not have his Banana Peels out to help him, it makes the match a bit easier. And with Xyro's tip about throwing the Banana Peels off the stage to force Diddy to spend time pulling out another one is a useful method. I should learn Glide Tossing, but the way it's described to perform is difficult for me to understand.

 

[tha_carter]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179708
samus can do all those ATs with a banana as well. I may have worded it badly, but its all there... with videos.

And sorry, i fixed my ratios.

And anyone that thinks just throwing bananas off the edge once they have them, doesnt know what theyre talking about. Thats not solving the problem at all, in fact its just adding to it. Attempting to control, or guarding bananas that youve thrown is the best way handle the match.


Id also recommend going about character selection differently, as oppose to alphabetically. Learning how to beat captain falcons and bowsers is great, but at the end of the day, seeing them in tournament is rare. Itd be best to do it according to the tier list. It would be much more beneficial in the long run. Id actually even help, and do a video tutorial on fighting MKs. Just a suggestion, either way.

 

[n00b]

^ **** nice contribution carter, I totally forgot about the stuff link can do with his bombs can be applied to Samus holding a banana. Nice. If I get my tech skill game going I can probably do everything I normally do but while hogging that banana..

EDIT: 1337th post

 

[Crystanium]

And anyone that thinks just throwing bananas off the edge once they have them, doesnt know what theyre talking about. Thats not solving the problem at all, in fact its just adding to it. Attempting to control, or guarding bananas that youve thrown is the best way handle the match.

If you say so. However, with the Banana Peels out of the way, I don't have to worry about tossing them at Diddy Kong and then him retrieving it easily with his dash attack.

Id also recommend going about character selection differently, as oppose to alphabetically.

Tier lists are subject to change. The alphabet is not. It seems a lot of people are so eager to begin with a certain character that they feel is either too difficult for them to handle, and so they want help from the board they're a part of, or a character that they think they know. I'm not like that, apparently.

 

[n00b]

^ Dryn: the point is to NOT toss them at diddy. You just need to make sure he can't toss two at you at one time. You can also set up tosses with missile or z-air cancels to glide tosses because her glide is even better than Diddy's.

 

[RPK]

Well, I think that its important that the thread covers the match ups that are most common in tournaments instead of going by alphabetically. Cause it would benefit the boards a lot more in my honest opinion...In addition, like he said, it is rare to see any Bowsers or Captain Falcons in tournament.

 

[icedragon-]

I personally think that Diddy has the advantage (with and without bananas too). Unless you can prevent a Diddy player from using his naners, he has the clear advantage and with good reason. Samus has a better defensive game in this matchup whereas Diddy has a better offensive game. Give or take, either can be the better "game" with enough skill. Diddy can keep the pressure on Samus and not give her room to breathe; less camping and less zairs. However, if Samus gets a ahold of a banana her options multiply. Like you guys exclaimed, she can hold on to the banana and use it for mind games. She can toss banana and get in a free charge shot (if it trips diddy), use zair - glide tossed banana throw, glide toss banana - grab, fsmash, dsmash, so on, and so on. You guys get the point. The options are nearly endless.

If Samus can keep the pressure on Diddy (with or without his bananas) then she's in great shape. Diddy has an extremely small shield and Samus has a few long range (and close range) moves that are great at poking shields. Without any bananas in his hand while shielding, Diddy's options are lowered and Samus' is increased. However, we all know that really good Diddy players know how to control the field and not be punished by opponents who get ahold of them.

There are multiple aspects of this matchup that become neutralized; Samus has a better off-level game, gimpibilty, and lower chance of getting gimped than Diddy does. Diddy's average recovery can be read and punished if he gets a little too far off the edge. At this point you want him to use his monkey flip (side B) but not get hit by it as it results in auto-death. Samus is heavier and lives longer. Diddy is much lighter than sam but isn't considered a light weight from my understanding. Isn't he about Mario's weight?

I apologize for this long post and only meant to keep it at a minimum. I'd say 60-40 in Diddy's favor because Diddy can weave in and out of Samus' hit zone with his ground mobility and keep up constant pressure (just not as much off-field). 60-40 Diddy's favor maximum, 55-45 Diddy's favor minimum if the samus player can use Diddy's banana(s) against him.

P.S. - Thanks for the warm welcome, Milk.

 

[DelxDoom]

This is a huge theory craft matchup since Samus players don't have experience with bananas. As of right now I theorycraft 30-70 Diddy simply because Diddy can control the naners a little better due to his short glidetoss and speed. and Samus is big.

I know this is a kinda useless opinion but that's how I see it.

 

[The Milk Monster]

1. I personally think that Diddy has the advantage (with bananas of course). Unless you can prevent a Diddy player from using his naners, he has the clear advantage and with good reason. Samus has a better defensive game in this matchup whereas Diddy has a better offensive game. Give or take, either can be the better "game" with enough skill. Diddy can keep the pressure on Samus and not give her room to breathe; less camping and less zairs. However, if Samus gets a ahold of a banana her options multiply. Like you guys exclaimed, she can hold on to the banana and use it for mind games. She can toss banana and get in a free charge shot (if it trips diddy), use zair - glide tossed banana throw, glide toss banana - grab, fsmash, dsmash, so on, and so on. You guys get the point. The options are nearly endless.

2. If Samus can keep the pressure on Diddy (with or without his bananas) then she's in great shape. Diddy has an extremely small shield and Samus has a few long range (and close range) moves that are great at poking shields. Without any bananas in his hand while shielding, Diddy's options are lowered and Samus' is increased. However, we all know that really good Diddy players know how to control the field and not be punished by opponents who get ahold of them.

3. There are multiple aspects of this matchup that become neutralized; Samus has a better off-level game, gimpibilty, and lower chance of getting gimped than Diddy does. Diddy's average recovery can be read and punished if he gets a little too far off the edge. At this point you want him to use his monkey flip (side B) but not get hit by it as it results in auto-death. Samus is heavier and lives longer. Diddy is much lighter than sam but isn't considered a light weight from my understanding. Isn't he about Mario's weight?

4. I apologize for this long post and only meant to keep it at a minimum. I'd say 60-40 in Diddy's favor because Diddy can weave in and out of Samus' hit zone with his ground mobility and keep up constant pressure (just not as much off-field). 60-40 Diddy's favor maximum, 55-45 Diddy's favor minimum if the samus player can use Diddy's banana(s) against him.

5. P.S. - Thanks for the warm welcome, Milk.

1. No doubt Diddy has the advantage in this match up, a good chunk of his match ups are in his favor, those naner peels disrupt so much. Even without Naners, Samus doesn't have a marginal advantage, but it's no longer a disadvantage. Stopping the Diddy's naner approach is a necessity, with missiles, uncharged neutral b's, bombs at the right spot, etc. Regardless if you plan to use the naner or not, holding it is necessary. Making sure the Diddy has less to work with is more pressure on his part, and Diddy's with less naners is a scared chump.

2. Very true on all this. Diddy players have to learn to swing the match around if the opponent gets ahold of the naners, and learn how to react accordingly.

3. Yeah he's around Mario's, maybe a bit heavier. His recovery is fairly easy to punish, just do NOT get hit by his down air, it's beastly.

4. I'd say 60:40 Diddy with naners on his side, 55:45 Samus without his naners to help him. But as we've said, Diddy players learn how to get their naners back, so in general I'd say a 60:40 Diddy sounds good.

5. No problem bud. I try to be as friendly as possible, and show that I know my stuff when it comes to this, without sounding like an elitist prick. Yay Samus boards being awesome!

 

[Crystanium]

I'm not going to argue about the match-up ratio. Vyse has it 40-60, Diddy Kong's favor. Player-1, a Diddy main who said he was a bit shaken up when he first brawled with TAC, since he was new to fighting a good Samus, also thinks it should be 40-60. So we can put that aside and just discuss for now on ways to help Samus out in this match-up. I finally decided I'd learn glide tossing today, and I got it down. Player-1 says that Samus is the second best with the glide tossing. She doesn't move too far back like Pit or Marth, but she does get some space in. Also, if throwing it down, Samus ends up behind the Banana Peel, which is a good defense tactic.

 

[tha_carter]

Well, I think that its important that the thread covers the match ups that are most common in tournaments instead of going by alphabetically. Cause it would benefit the boards a lot more in my honest opinion...In addition, like he said, it is rare to see any Bowsers or Captain Falcons in tournament.

.....but what do i know, im just a black Canadian guy.

At this alphabetical pace; by the time we get a guide on MK's it will be the end of summer (after genisis), and we'll get a special halloween treat with a guide for snake.

Lol, Royta's guide is going alot better, i think ill focus my attention there.

 

[Crystanium]

.....but what do i know, im just a black Canadian guy.

At this alphabetical pace; by the time we get a guide on MK's it will be the end of summer (after genisis), and we'll get a special halloween treat with a guide for snake.

Lol, Royta's guide is going alot better, i think ill focus my attention there.

Yeah, what do I know? I'm just a white American. No, you're right, tha_carter, at this pace, it's not going to help anyone here. So sure, go to Royta's thread. You're right, his is doing far better than mine ever will. Not that he covers the things like my thread does, but you're right. So go ahead and focus your attention there. Everyone who mains Samus, focus your attention on Royta's match-up thread. It's much better than mine. Thanks for letting me see the light, tha_carter. I hope all of you Samus mains have enjoyed my time here while I was here. Then again, who am I, but a fool, a byword, an insecure egotist whose life is just wasting away every passing second! So much for reworking this thread in hopes that we would have more discussions talk! A waste of time this thread is. An utter waste of time.

 

[Ravin]

-Facepalm-

The matchups threads are supposed to be slow moving, and sometimes wrong at this point. It wont ever be REALLY completed for a few years.

Yours is very detailed, and to the point.

But do what you want. Because the fact you let what people on the internet influence you way to much, instead of just doing what you want. Who the hell is Carter to tell you your facts or wrong or right? You have done more research then most people in the Samus threads, just behind Rohins.

I dont care if your black, canidana, Mexican, or white. Its the internet Dryn, christs sake, grow a set of balls and kick someone back.

 

[Hive]

i think diddy vs. samus is at least 60-40 diddy, he can just combo and control samus too well. i've played crispy tacoz, qtp, and tek, and i think the more they learn samus projectile patterns the more they are able to adapt and take advantage of her playstyle. it seems like samus has a lot going for her at first but i think that diddy just has more momentum in the matchup... i could be wrong.
i'm pretty sure xyro has said he has had trouble with diddys texas side as well.

 

[Xyro77]

i think diddy vs. samus is at least 60-40 diddy, he can just combo and control samus too well. i've played crispy tacoz, qtp, and tek, and i think the more they learn samus projectile patterns the more they are able to adapt and take advantage of her playstyle. it seems like samus has a lot going for her at first but i think that diddy just has more momentum in the matchup... i could be wrong.
i'm pretty sure xyro has said he has had trouble with diddys texas side as well.

i just played that esca kid who poste dup the vids of me losing. we did about 8 matches, i won all 8. and i beat texas best diddy player in a MM this past saturday. just get rid of bananas and you will be fine. but yea diddys are hard for sam sam

 

[Hive]

kwl, yea i heard to holding one of the bananas as well can work pretty good too for spamming. good job against esca! what do you think the matchup ratio is?

 

[Xyro77]

kwl, yea i heard to holding one of the bananas as well can work pretty good too for spamming. good job against esca! what do you think the matchup ratio is?

well IMO it depends on if the diddy can fight good without his bananas or is good enough to get u away from him while he pulls bananas.

assuming he can do both.

60-40 diddy

levels like BF or levels that have platforms can give u the advantage.


btw, i ask all of you to plz post and help out THIS thread and not roytas thread. Royta lists ike vs samus as 55-45 in ikes favor. that kid obviously knows NOTHING about samus or ike for that matter.

plz boycott that stupid kid

 

[The Milk Monster]

In response to the Ike match up, one zair to a recovering Ike will make sure he can't get back, and that's not really hard to get off at all, that factor in it's own should be enough to make the match up 55:45, with the multitude of other factors.
In response to Diddy, play a level with platforms, you should be doing that anyways, but one with platforms is amazing. I like to CP Norfair against Chain Throwers and Diddy.
Samus's glide toss is amazing, I love it so much.
Just don't rely on the nanerz, cause the Diddy should know how to work under the pressure of not having their nanerz.
They do help though.
I'm too tired to discuss this much more, every little bit of input helps though.
60:40 Diddy sounds right.

 

[Xyro77]

when it comes to ike its rather common sense. ALL of his attacks are mega slow=easy to shield or dodge or even power shield.

zair and missles should keep him away from the ledge 100% of the time. there should be NO reaosn why ike gets back on the stage.

if ike attacks you with ANYTHING other than nair to jab....you should shield grab.

stages like FD are ikes weakness.

65-35 samus favor

 

[Hive]

idk ike isn't as easy as you'd think imo. he will definitely win at close range due to his jab mainly. you can shield grab it i guess but many times the ike will stop at different points in his grab and just grab samus or tilt or continue. he is slow but he can rack damge fairly well...

 

[icedragon-]

The only thing Ike has going for him in this match up is his power and close-range skills in comparison to samus. His jab cancel will keep you guessing and because Samus has an awful side step, that can be punished if used too much. Samus can keep Ike at bay with the projectiles in her arsenal (that being un-charged charge shot, fully charged charge shot, bombs, homing missiles and normal missiles. Ike doesn't have much of a choice if a billion things are being fired at him. He can either be extremely good at powershielding, spot dodge a lot, go to the air or just flat out retreat and wait for an opening. The perfect powershielding on EVERY projectile isn't going to happen, repetitive spot dodge can be read and punished (omgsh zair is perfect for this) and waiting for an opening against samus as ike will be tough. Retreating only allows more camping from samus and going in the air approaching samus isn't a very smart move.

Samus can just camp all day and grab ike while getting aerials in occasionally. You shouldn't get hit very much while camping unless you're facing a really good ike player. Ike is given extremely good range and power to compensate for how laggy and punishable his aerials are. Don't EVER underestimate Ike's range. It's incredible. Running up to Ike may result in a fair to the face. Space accordingly and use those lag-less aerials that you are blessed with. Watch out for mind gamed fsmashes, usmashes, and his ftilt. They're all really good at getting KO's. If you're laying on the ground (because of a missed tech) expect one of these 3 moves, a jab or a grab. React quickly and stay cautious of his hit zone.

Ike's recovery sucks and he can be easy to gimp and edge guard. Levels like FD make Ike suffer while stages like BF give him a boost. Ike can gimp but all Ike players fear going off of the level too far because they might not make it back. Besides, samus wins off level anyways. NEVER ATTACK FROM THE LEDGE IF IKE IS STANDING RIGHT THERE. This is too easy for his to shield grab or jab combo you, possblu an unexpected utilt. NEVER ledge stall too long or your invincibility frames will run out resulting in an easy fsmash. These are fairly obvious but ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS stay alert. One mess up can result in death against Ike. You want him to struggle to kill you, not the opposite.

65-35 in Samus' favor; 60-40 minimum in Samus' favor if Ike picks a level he exceeds at like FD or YI (maybe).

 

[tha_carter]

Lol, i was JOKING about the Royta Guide. Hence the 'lol'. But atleast he takes advice. Dont be so Emo Dryn lmao.

I made it VERY clear that it was just a suggestion. It only makes sense to learn to counter the currently tourney viable characters first, if you plan on doing well with samus. WAIT ANOTHER FOUR MONTHS before we talk about the most likely character we will be facing? Come on.

But its your thread... Im only making a suggestion (very good suggestion, that id be willing to help with). Dont do it for Carter, Dryn, do it for all the Samus' that wanna be Chozo Warriors just like Dryn. Go to tourneys and dominate all the Captian Falcons and Bowsers in FRIENDLIES, and then get 3-stocked by the masses of MKs, 3De's, Snakes and G dubs in TOURNEY.

=)

 

[Crystanium]

Lol, i was JOKING about the Royta Guide. Hence the 'lol'. But atleast he takes advice. Dont be so Emo Dryn lmao.

I made it VERY clear that it was just a suggestion. It only makes sense to learn to counter the currently tourney viable characters first, if you plan on doing well with samus. WAIT ANOTHER FOUR MONTHS before we talk about the most likely character we will be facing? Come on.

But its your thread... Im only making a suggestion (very good suggestion, that id be willing to help with). Dont do it for Carter, Dryn, do it for all the Samus' that wanna be Chozo Warriors just like Dryn. Go to tourneys and dominate all the Captian Falcons and Bowsers in FRIENDLIES, and then get 3-stocked by the masses of MKs, 3De's, Snakes and G dubs in TOURNEY.

=)

I apologize for being sensitive about what you said. A friend of mine, PKSkyler, said that I could talk about a certain character like Snake, and I can still have my guide in alphabetical order. I thought his idea was good, so after we're done with the Diddy Kong match-up, I'll ask the Samus board who we should discuss next.

 

[hyperhopper]

why in the world does this have a sticky, its just a WIP???? wth

 

[n00b]

^ yo thanks for the contribution to getting this WIP completed THAT much sooner bro

 

[The Milk Monster]

I apologize for being sensitive about what you said. A friend of mine, PKSkyler, said that I could talk about a certain character like Snake, and I can still have my guide in alphabetical order. I thought his idea was good, so after we're done with the Diddy Kong match-up, I'll ask the Samus board who we should discuss next.

Exactly.
We should do less popular characters, because that off chance we come across one, we want to know how to fight them.