Thirty Days of Life - Competitive Discussion Thread

[Sky Pirate]

The Smash Lab Standard Terms list has a number of them, though it doesn't have ALL of them.
Can't hurt to try the old "Ctrl+F" on that page when you're not sure of one.

 

[asob4]

Hey guys (those who remember me) I'm gonna come out of retirement to play in one big tourney before summer is over and I was wondering what I should know about the current meta. Any new techs or anything I should know about? Or is it still the same as 3 years ago? (holy ****, 3 years ago.)

Thanks in advance. The tourney is in about 2 weeks

 

[Sky Pirate]

* JC Usmash OoS -
A general technique, but worth mentioning due to its incredible importance and the unique way it affects Olimar. This technique can make many matchups easier by turning formerly unpunishable moves into punishable moves.

To perform, just press up while shielding, jump, and immediately hit the "attack" button. If you have tap jump on, this is just "Up+A" while in shield. If you have tap jump off, it would be more like "Up+X, A" (X is a "Jump" command and A is an "attack" command on the standard controller setup). You can tilt your shield up and just press "X+A", which may make it easier to perform with tap jump off.

When Olimar takes a single hit on his shield, he can no longer be damaged by the same hit. If the Usmash starts while the attack is still out, the pikmin still takes the hit when its hurtbox is brought out. If the pikmin survives the hit, it "rockets" because it was hit during the initial "charging" period. It's also incredibly quick, so it may just be able to punish a move without rocketing.
Usefulness:

Learn to do that. We can punish a lot more now that we understand it.
That's probably the biggest change so far.

 

[asob4]

Thanks! I guess I should start working on this. Sounds easy enough.

 

[Noa.]

Usmash OoS is amazing. Like without it Oli's shield is pretty crappy. But with it we can punish anything.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Well... ALMOST anything.

You can't punish things like a max-range Wolf Bair on our shield without ISSDI x3 toward him before using the Usmash (or something ridiculous like that).

 

[Noa.]

Ok can you just shut the **** up Sky? lolololol

 

[Sky Pirate]

The man needs to know.

 

[Noa.]

No he doesn't. Wolf is a terrible matchup for us. He needs to pickup a counterpick for Wolf.

 

[asob4]

How common would wolf really be though? And how much could have the game really changed since then? I just gotta be better then people and not make stupid mistakes. Shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Noa.]

Wolf's shine just destroys all our options and we end up offstage and just automatically die. It's terrible now.

 

[BSL]

Lmao.

Asob, to usmashOOS, just do a regular up smash, and while you're moving the CStick up, just press jump.

Play with tap jump off. You die if you have it on as Olimar.

 

[asob4]

I've been playing a lot of melee, I've gotten readjusted to tap jump so it's no big deal now. Tried with tap jump off and wasn't able to do it consistently. With tap jump on it was extremely easy. Unfairly easy.

 

[Noa.]

I play with tap jump on. Usmash OoS is like nothing lololol. I don't really see too much of an advantage to tap jump off honestly.

 

[BSL]

Tap jump on makes it easier for sure, but I kill myself too often for accidentally using my air jump while I do stuff.

 

[Noa.]

C-stick for life.

 

[STEM]

How strong is ICs as a secondary for olimar

 

[Noa.]

Well the only matchups worth using a secondary is falco and icies. So icies beats falco and you'd have to learn
the icies ditto.

 

[crow95]

Olimar does not need seconds (: For which matchups do you consider switching olimar out?

 

[STEM]

Falco, possibly ICs.
I was probably going to do a "use olimar until I lose, then try to win that match using ICs" type thing.
I really hate fighting Falco though

 

[Noa.]

Meh you get used to him. Personally with practice the Falco matchups becomes less and less annoying, as does the Icies matchup.

 

[BSL]

crouch cancel his jab, then upsmash him. feel cool.

 

[STEM]

What's crouch canceling falcos jab?
I thought crouch canceling cancelled your own jab

 

[BSL]

crouch cancelling a la melee.

it basically makes you land early enough to upsmash him before he can do stuff

 

[crow95]

Hmm I dont think you have to switch except your ICs are just as good as your Olimar, then you would make your life easier against Falco. But Falco as well as Ice Climbers are winnable, at least for me. (Ive at least some falco experience, I also played the IC Mu quite a bit now)

 

[SShane]

anyone have any tips on playing yoshi

 

[BSL]

footstool him.

 

[crow95]

camp him out, let him approach (bair < pivot grab, dash attack < oos stuff/pivot grab, dash grab < spotdodge/jump) and dont let you trick by his neutral b which airgrabs you out of your shield. If you get used to his incredible air speed and mobility, its kinda easy.

 

[SSS]

I have some issues with what stages to pick, especially against IC. I obviously ban FD, but the Stage Ban thread said you should get rid of BF, which I'm not sure I understand. I feel very comfortable on platforms against ICs, but that might just be with my Marth. My Oli isn't as platform-oriented. Any help? Also I avoid Frigate because the right ledge on one of the transformations isn't a ledge at all, which makes our already awful recovery completely useless.

 

[Sky Pirate]

I don't quite remember exactly why some of the stages are on that list for certain characters, but it seems that dabuz was very adamant about not fighting ICs on BF in this post, so I'm willing to bet that that was why it was added. You might consider asking him why he said that.
Platforms are generally considered to be helpful against ICs.

Regarding Frigate, it can be a mixed bag. The second phase is good for us and we get extra yellows/purples on both phases. The first phase can be just as effective against certain characters (like your main, for instance) as it is against Olimar.

 

[BSL]

The problem with BF (and any stage with a platform right on the edge) is that desynced ICs can cover both the platform and the ledge, preventing you from recovering to the ledge or over it onto the stage.

On other stages, they have to choose one to prevent, and you can take the other (in an optimal situation).



There could be (and probably are) other reasons.

 

[Dabuz]

Platforms don't help Olimar at all on BF. It's so small that ICs have great poking potential there and one mistake lets ICs push Olimar off the platform into guaranteed grab. The main stage is really small so that's an obvious no no. Also what BSL said is 100% true.


Frigate is such a risky stage for both players in the MU. The fact is that spawning on the right side puts Oli in a ****ty situation. The left side is better but still not great. The only reason you would want this stage is because all the purples / yelows AND transformation two can really help Olimar in the MU.

When I fight ICs, my stage preference goes: Halberd > YI > SV > PS1

 

[SSS]

That makes sense. Still don't quite get Frigate, perhaps because I'm not crazy about yellers. Any other advice against them? For example, how to get around the Icicles? Camping and throwing doesn't work at all with them coming at you.

 

[SSS]

Actually. Alright. I'm starting to like Frigate. I just tried it a bit more.

 

[Dabuz]

That makes sense. Still don't quite get Frigate, perhaps because I'm not crazy about yellers. Any other advice against them? For example, how to get around the Icicles? Camping and throwing doesn't work at all with them coming at you.

Be super aggro and don't let ICs get desynchs. Space fair on ICs a lot and use fsmash to punish them for anything, pivot grab -> pummel is really good for separating ICs. For more reference youtube recent matches of me vs. Vinnie.

 

[SSS]

Alright. Thanks a bunch. In a pinch I'll just counterpick Tink.

 

[Nido]

I'm interested to know what you Olimars think of the Ness MU, I'm leaning on +1 Ness' favour so can I get any information from the Olimar's point of view?
It'd be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Shift 8888 this dumb Shift 888 character

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Ness doesn't have the advantage in the mathup. It's in Olimar's favor but nothing drastic, imo. Ness has problems approaching and sticking to Olimar, which is the main thing and the reason a lot of characters have seemingly good matchups against him. Is there anything in particular you think Ness has that puts the matchup in his favor?

As for our point of view, fsmash is an obvious tool, as it is against most characters. Yellow fsmash will pass through your fair, cutting off that approach. From what I understand, most of Ness' approaches are short hopped aerials ending in landing next to the opponent. In these situations, Olimar can do what he does best, punish run away and focus on punishing landings. Fsmash and Grab are great for this. I forget what fram your grab comes out on, but I remember it being on the slow side, when it comes to close range grabs. This is a huge problem for you against us because one of the main tools characters need to learn how to use against Olimar up close is grab when they have him under shield pressure. If this important tool is already sub-par, well, you know.

But yeah, anything you'd like to add from your point of view? I'll stop rambling for now.

 

[Noa.]

Like Hilt said it's an advantage for Olimar though nothing major. Ness doesn't have the easiest time getting in but when he does he can do some good. I'm never scared to face a Ness but it isn't like a free win.