Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[EnGarde]

well since you said sweet spot of f-smash I assume you mean the second hit when you light then on fire as well.
its kinda similar in a way to her zair.


the last hot box has to be hitting them as it comes out , turns zairs 3-6%

Hmm, I do mean the second hit when you light them on fire, but if you're too close (or too far away, sometimes it happens with that as well), you'll get the second hit but won't light them on fire. When this happens, you still get the full amount of damage, but not the full knockback. I tested in final destination in training mode vs. Ike, with Ike placed in the middle of the stage (respawn location), with the damage meter set to 145%. Fsmash from approximately 1 character space away (not scientific, the sweetspot is pretty big), and you light Ike on fire and KO him. Fsmash while standing like right next to him, and you won't light Ike on fire, and you won't KO him.

I'm pretty sure there's a knockback sweet spot on uair and fair, but I'm having trouble finding where exactly it is. I'm guessing at the beginning of uair, near the bottom, but no clue on the fair. Maybe when and where the blue puffs are in the move's animation? That's why I'm asking the community, lol, I'm hoping someone has already tested this.

EDIT: D: No replies. Back to the lab again...

 

[hiROI]

Hello everyone! My name is hiROI and I used to play Peach in the brawl days and post a lot in the Peach boards. I want to main Miss. ZSS in sm4sh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp2HPH8NSYU

At 2:10, Dakpo shifts his momentum with a B reversal. I accomplished to do a b reversal on the ground, but how does one shift momentum while in the air with Neutral B?

nice meeting everyone !

 

[Jaxas]

Hello everyone! My name is hiROI and I used to play Peach in the brawl days and post a lot in the Peach boards. I want to main Miss. ZSS in sm4sh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp2HPH8NSYU

At 2:10, Dakpo shifts his momentum with a B reversal. I accomplished to do a b reversal on the ground, but how does one shift momentum while in the air with Neutral B?

nice meeting everyone !

I think it's the same as on the ground, just be moving a direction -> let go of the analog stick so you can neutral B -> B -> wait a split second -> flick the opposite direction you're going

 

[hiROI]

I think it's the same as on the ground, just be moving a direction -> let go of the analog stick so you can neutral B -> B -> wait a split second -> flick the opposite direction you're going

Thanks! I got it to work now.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Hey there fellow ZSS enthusiasts!

I am Yume, I used to be active on the Snake and Falco boards during the Brawl days. Sadly Snake is gone and Falco sucks in Smash 4. So the lovely ZSS is my new main, looking forward to the discussions with y'all lovely fellas ^.^

 

[David Viran]

Happy day oh happy day jab still comes out on frame 1. Frame data just got released.

 

[pichuthedk]

its a happy day but sad one :-( RIP robin infinite , in curious is there any tournament replays of someone doing it before the patch?.

 

[hiROI]

Went to a tournament this weekend and lost to a Diddy. It's easier when he's in the air and you continue to juggle him, but the problem is maintaining him above you.

Any tips?

 

[pichuthedk]

try to punish when ever he wants to pluck a banana you can probably condition him to pull it out when your at a range.
his cqc is really annoying especially when side b is a grab.

for safe measures try not to shield close to him to much orhe will side b grab you as punishment.
I'm walking out side now and using my phone is a drag ill post more in a bit.

 

[NickRiddle]

If only DI wasn't in this game.
ZSS has like 3 easy 0-death in training mode.

 

[pichuthedk]

If only DI wasn't in this game.
ZSS has like 3 easy 0-death in training mode.

Oh yeah what are they Nick? I'd like to entertain the idea.

Oh man i forgot to save a replay i did the other day where an ending string from 2-3 up airs , I wanted to save the replay to bring it up here although my memory is a little hazy IIRC i did the typical down throw -> up air juggles but after I had hit him the 2/3rd time with up air instead of FFing to restart juggling I used down b to stall fall and before i hit the ground I up b'd the poor ******* fell into the final kick even when he tried to air dodge ( or he just feel into it in time I am going to try and recreate that sequence once more when i remember later on wii u).

 

[NickRiddle]

Oh yeah what are they Nick? I'd like to entertain the idea.

Oh man i forgot to save a replay i did the other day where an ending string from 2-3 up airs , I wanted to save the replay to bring it up here although my memory is a little hazy IIRC i did the typical down throw -> up air juggles but after I had hit him the 2/3rd time with up air instead of FFing to restart juggling I used down b to stall fall and before i hit the ground I up b'd the poor ******* fell into the final kick even when he tried to air dodge ( or he just feel into it in time I am going to try and recreate that sequence once more when i remember later on wii u).

It's simple.
D-smash > falling nair > grab > d-throw > uairs > up-b.
If only that worked.

 

[ChaseRLewis]

It's simple.
D-smash > falling nair > grab > d-throw > uairs > up-b.
If only that worked.

Unless you get like 8 up airs I can't see this possibly killing even if you could hit it.

d-smash = 8%;
nair = 10%
grab = 17%
up air = 8%;

43% and up+B isn't going to kill on most stages that aren't corneria where the ceiling is hilariously low and assuming they are already fairly high in the air from the up+air.

Her damage racking is great but other then Robin when we had the infinite no 0-death is even remotely possible.

Honestly, I'm trying to incorporate off stage side-B into my game more often. Lots of characters can't come back from that. It tends to send them far back and down.

What are you all using for edge guarding currently?

 

[NickRiddle]

Unless you get like 8 up airs I can't see this possibly killing even if you could hit it.

d-smash = 8%;
nair = 10%
grab = 17%
up air = 8%;

43% and up+B isn't going to kill on most stages that aren't corneria where the ceiling is hilariously low and assuming they are already fairly high in the air from the up+air.

Her damage racking is great but other then Robin when we had the infinite no 0-death is even remotely possible.

Honestly, I'm trying to incorporate off stage side-B into my game more often. Lots of characters can't come back from that.

What are you all using for edge guarding currently?

If you carry people up with uair, up-b now kills VERY early. In fact, if Halberd is legal, it's actually possible to still 0-death people because of how incredibly low the ceiling is.

I'm not even trying to edgeguard most characters yet. I still have my Brawl habit mindset of if I go offstage I am going to die.

 

[pichuthedk]

I'm in the process of eliminating that mindset I'm getting braver by the day.
also her up b can probably kill a lot easier now that vectoring is out and It still possible to just juggle fat characters to death anyways.

now of only we can counter everyone's miracle rage hit that magically ends my stock when I had 75% more on them.

 

[NickRiddle]

Just kill them earlier~

 

[pichuthedk]

Just kill them earlier~[/quote
still hammering out the mistakes made in neutral.

 

[NickRiddle]

And the mistakes in quoting~

 

[pichuthedk]

*sigh* yep gotta stop posting on my phone its brutal.

 

[Ohsm]

In Brawl you could catch an opponent's recovery with a d-smash over the ledge and combo in a down-b spike.
Is this still possible due to her d-smash duration change?

Does the down-b flip kick even work the same like in brawl, with only the first few frames spiking?

I don't have the game by now so I can't test it myself.

 

[David Viran]

In Brawl you could catch an opponent's recovery with a d-smash over the ledge and combo in a down-b spike.
Is this still possible due to her d-smash duration change?

Does the down-b flip kick even work the same like in brawl, with only the first few frames spiking?

I don't have the game by now so I can't test it myself.

It is still very possible because you don't have to hit them during the initial stun anyway you can hit them during the knock back too. To spike with down special it's weird It appears that it depends on your angle.

 

[extremechiton]

the down b spike, you have to space it effectively, the angle of approach is about 45 degrees above the other player, and you have to hit with the tip of zss heel with the outermost hurtbox of the character your spiking. so basically, you have to activate teh kick a little earlier than you might expect, but to early, and youll wiff and fall with lots of lag before you can start to recover.

starting at around the 1:35 mark, i set up for the down b spike.

 

[Ohsm]

thanks for the insight guys (:

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

After a 30 games winning streak in 1on1 FG I got completely ruined by a guy playing dk/ganondorf/falcon nearly 10 times in a row.
I only won once against his Falcon and that was it. Crazy stuff.

 

[David Viran]

How were they beating you like were they just better than you or were they using a tactic that you couldn't get around. We can solve this mystery.

 

[pichuthedk]

if it was falcon dk and ganon it sounds like getting punished hard for an over zealous mistake/commitment. I have a set where i faced a power ranked player who also had a scary as **** ganon in my region for the set I literally had to run away from him all set whilst trying not to commit so hard.

 

[David Viran]

I think we solved it or at least pichuthedk did. That sounds like a pretty good answer at least.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I finally relearned how to do her b reverse paralyzer :D

 

[pichuthedk]

I think we solved it or at least pichuthedk did. That sounds like a pretty good answer at least.

now if only I stopped god damn losing sets I should win , put serious work in my mind games /observatory abilities and consistently utilizing critical thinking from start of a game to the end then that road to best zss in the world will be a lot shorter.

On the extreme plus side I was beating V115 the well known brawl zss main in the Wii u zss ditto which felt good I guess (till realization dawned that he was rusty due to school and doesn't even use zss in Wii u)

alright and the last useless part of my post this is in conjunction with the post made about the down special spikes.

I am going to try and make the time to compile a list of characters that can be f/b thrown off stage to a down special kick spike WHICH IS EXTREMELY SATISFYING especially when you do something sexy like a pivot grab to back throw , seeing them get tossed over her leg like that and then the spike they can't do anything abot but try to DI.

TL:DR I got F-throws and b-throws to down special kick spikes on everyone I played be it friendlies or bracket at the tourney I went to Sunday ( Everyone I played was a power ranked player from brawl , I also got some of them on my Boy SmashSteve.

P.S Screw Nintendo for Stealth nerfing charged laser from launching slightly any more Hopefully I don't get our down special patched by them as well...

 

[David Viran]

now if only I stopped god damn losing sets I should win , put serious work in my mind games /observatory abilities and consistently utilizing critical thinking from start of a game to the end then that road to best zss in the world will be a lot shorter.

On the extreme plus side I was beating V115 the well known brawl zss main in the Wii u zss ditto which felt good I guess (till realization dawned that he was rusty due to school and doesn't even use zss in Wii u)

alright and the last useless part of my post this is in conjunction with the post made about the down special spikes.

I am going to try and make the time to compile a list of characters that can be f/b thrown off stage to a down special kick spike WHICH IS EXTREMELY SATISFYING especially when you do something sexy like a pivot grab to back throw , seeing them get tossed over her leg like that and then the spike they can't do anything abot but try to DI.

TL:DR I got F-throws and b-throws to down special kick spikes on everyone I played be it friendlies or bracket at the tourney I went to Sunday ( Everyone I played was a power ranked player from brawl , I also got some of them on my Boy SmashSteve.

P.S Screw Nintendo for Stealth nerfing charged laser from launching slightly any more Hopefully I don't get our down special patched by them as well...

The paralyzer nerf doesn't seem like it changed much. If they nerf down special I'll cry. Good luck on your rode to best zss it's not going to be easy.

 

[pichuthedk]

The [ar

The paralyzer nerf doesn't seem like it changed much. If they nerf down special I'll cry. Good luck on your rode to best zss it's not going to be easy.

Its seems unnoticed to other people regarding that nerf but I once made a post on this thread regarding charged laser setting up down special spikes which was pretty guaranteed , The nerf I am referring to isn't uncharged laser going shorter and having more end lag it's that charged laser no longer launches people ever so slightly which actually patched out a combo I made that could be done from around a little more than full side b's length.

I made a combo randomly one night which to this day I never bothered to add up how much damage it does as this was mainly about doing moderate damage whilst safely knock 2 moves off the stale move queue.

It was Fully charged laser -> Fox trot -> down smash -> dash attack, Hmm now that I think about it I'll call it "Get Blindsided" since you stun them then flash that downsmash light in their face following up with a blindsided knee to their face/solar plex (character height depends how painful this sounds xD.

Been on this road for so long It's a shame I was an ignorant moron in high school and squandered like 75% of the potential I had for this game from things like partying and substance abuse T.T.

 

[KingBroly]

I finally relearned how to do her b reverse paralyzer :D

excuse me?

 

[extremechiton]

one way to guarantee a down b spike is to stun them with either the paralyzer or the down smash.
with the paralyzer, it has to be fully charged, and some distance away to which you can immediately down b and with perfect spacing spike them.

the other with down smash is, down smash them, then run away be reverse flip jump, and sweet spot the spike kick. or
down smash, wait a bit then down b and sweet spot spike kick, or at higher percents, you have to jump and then down b spike kick.

i have this set up that i do, where i stun them with the paralyzer, down b ground them, down smash, then flip jump, kick. its a pretty flashy set up, and is almost guaranteed at higher percents if they dont mash, but since people online dont mash that much for some reason, i nearly always get it.

i even once did a side b to down b spike on a little mac.

 

[pichuthedk]

one way to guarantee a down b spike is to stun them with either the paralyzer or the down smash.
with the paralyzer, it has to be fully charged, and some distance away to which you can immediately down b and with perfect spacing spike them.

the other with down smash is, down smash them, then run away be reverse flip jump, and sweet spot the spike kick. or
down smash, wait a bit then down b and sweet spot spike kick, or at higher percents, you have to jump and then down b spike kick.

i have this set up that i do, where i stun them with the paralyzer, down b ground them, down smash, then flip jump, kick. its a pretty flashy set up, and is almost guaranteed at higher percents if they dont mash, but since people online dont mash that much for some reason, i nearly always get it.

i even once did a side b to down b spike on a little mac.

You do laser -> down b on them as its wearing off? or as its in effect still I might have to test that out because I never attempted the implant footstool from laser because I was used to it launching the so it was always laser -> down b kick -> land -> charge another laser if they are a character without reflectors and I was trying to get a panic air dodge to the ground so I can stun them again.

All this talk of down b spiking makes me want to get off my ass and make that list of f-throw and back throw -> down b spike list xD.

 

[extremechiton]

as its still in effect. sometimes i hit them when they're in hit stun from the knock back, but this only works at higher percents. anything low, they can usually get out of.

It pretty much goes like this:

 

[pichuthedk]

I'm about to watch your video , in any case yeah I love down smashing people out of down b.
*edit* how sexy seems ill be getting over the charged laser nerf relatively quickly

 

[extremechiton]

i have several reasons for d smashing after the grounding.

1. adds more damage to get closer to ko percent (which isnt much with the down be kick)

2. stuns them again, so they cant escape, allowing for more follow ups.

3. because the grounding makes them escape vertically, and it is unknown when they will escape, follow ups might whiff, and down smashing sends them at a specific angle which can be calculated due to the amount of damage they have accumulated.

4. a grounded opponent can act immediately after being released from a grounded state. so if you try to follow up, you might get hit while they are mashing buttons.

5. stunning them adds more hit stun to them, so after they are released from the stun animation, they get launched and go into hitstun, this is where the down b kick comes in and its arcing trajectory follows the trajectory of your opponent practically guaranteeing that you will hit them when you do the kick.

 

[DeLux]

I'm gonna be streaming some play with Shaky (world's best Ness in Brawl), Bonds (sheik that beat me last tournament), and hopefully another KS player or two (Fragger I hope) will be streaming in about 45 min on www.twitch.tv/legendoflux

 

[David Viran]

Just watched Salem play he lost to jtails and Keitaro. He missed a lot of down Smash punishes because he didn't seem like he knew what to do. I think he would have beaten jtails with more knowledge on what follow ups to use and the rosalina was extremely close match.

 

[extremechiton]

salem was also doing some unsafe and guaranteed attacks