Thanks all! I'll probably soon drop off the face of existence for that reason, but... sometimes I just can't help myself:
This may be useful in conjunction with the side B tether trump.
1. Go for the tether trump.
1b. For foes that consistently buffer their getup options, proceed to step 2, otherwise back air.
2. Perform the Lagless Ledge Getup.
3. It may be possible to boost kick jumping ledge responses.
3b. It may be possible to fox trot boost kick rolls.
3c. It may be possible to boost kick the get up option.
4. It may be possible to grab all but the jump response (jump may be included if initial frames are not invulnerable, and if jump animation is long enough).
This may warrant some research, especially if grabbing is a feasible response to getup options.
Here's my quick look:
Minimum ledge hold time for non tether grabbers is 20 frames, we have a minimum hold time of 0 frames. Perfect execution would have them grab the edge, us follow on the frame after (1), hold back on the next frame to release (2), and jump on the next frame (3). It's likely that the video above is referring to soft landing lag when he is referring to landing with "no lag," so add 2 frames (4). With TAS kind of execution, ZSS would be in a neutral state approximately
16 frames before her foe, who has buffered an action.
Out of laziness, I'm using ZSS' frame data as an example for ledge options. Other character's mileage may vary.
1. Jump
Jump in invulnerable from frames 1 to 12, though the data does not specify a first actionable frame. If an air dodge can be buffered out of that, then there's only one vulnerable frame available to hit in this sequence. Since invulnerability starts immediately, this definitely can't be grabbed or hit right away. Pending late first actionable frames, this could be punishable given the time we have available to us (advantage time + invulnerable wait time = 28 frames).
2. Attack
The attack option is invulnerable from frames 1 to 14, and 41 end frames. This... is obnoxious. Fox trot out and return in for the free grab. You could also fox trot out and flip kick for free as well. If you're out of range of the attack, you may be able to charge a forward or down smash as a response too. But in fairness, that's character specific.
3. Climb
The climbing animation is invulnerable from frames 1-33, and has 1 end frame. This is tough to punish without a read. Similar to jumping, there's not a huge gap here, but they are just standing there afterwords... shields come up in 1 frame, and can be grabbed. Reading this option could be punished by a grab, since our grab is active for 13 or 14 frames. Our next most lasting hitbox response is dash attack, which lasts for 13 frames and has 32 frames of end lag instead of 39 frames.
4. Roll
Rolling is invincible from frames 1 to 26, and has 23 frames of end lag. This could be grabbed pretty easily. It could also be flip kicked or boost kicked if the setup from above is used. Makes me feel bad for ever missing a punish on a roll, ha ha.
pichuthedk Are you V115? Lol because it says you're from Toronto and you say you're 3rd best in the region. Personally I don't believe there are any notable ZSS' in Western Canada.. I'm the only Zero suit known to us and maybe out of state players? (that'd be cool lol). I don't travel out of state very much but I plan to do so soon. I'd really like to play V115 some time, wondering if he or any of you guys are going to attend NorthWestMajors in Washington this November 20th. Might attend that, and will probably be attending Genesis!
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