Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[Dr. Tuen]

I think the feasibility of us being no.1 in the game (or not measurably worse than Sheik) is pretty high right now.
Nair being overly safer now (9 frames), zair being a lot safer now (7 frames), side-b being better (can't roll between hits now I think; it may be electric too just can't find the hitboxes), , paralyzer being SEVEN frames safer on shield no matter the scenario...

Sheik got like 2-3 frame buffs, while zss got close to 10 frame buffs on things. We're awesome.

Ah, projectiles lost their shield hit lag... The frame by frame look at paralyzer I've seen confirms this. How do you figure it got better on shield?

 

[pichuthedk]

Uhh So I ended up actually pulling off one of the things I was pondering however since it was online I would like to get it tested further,
I purposely ff nair'd a sheik's shield and immediately up b , I tried this like 3 times and the first time I got her with it while the other 2 she tried to grab me to late because of delay maybe?

Anyone want to try touching this?

 

[T-Loc]

So apparently SH FF UpAir into DJ rising UpAir is a true kill confirm on sheik at around at least 105%. It's not to hard to land one you get the hang of it and is WAAAAY safer than going for the hard UpB/DownB/DSmash read that gets super punished by sheiks crazy Upsmash tipper. It has ready made my sheik MU much more balanced.

Can anyone lab it out and see if it's a viable kill option vs more of the cast? Would be greatly appreciated

 

[Shaya]

Ah, projectiles lost their shield hit lag... The frame by frame look at paralyzer I've seen confirms this. How do you figure it got better on shield?

Wait, ALL projectiles lost their shield hit lag? Are you certain? (I know you just said that but it's not the going assumption right now I think?)
Paralyzer had a 2.0 multiplier apparently, so it being completely nullified would suck :{ From what I believe Thinkaman showed us was those with large multipliers benefiting more from this.
If so we lost 6 frames of hit lag for 3 extra frames of shield stun. Doh

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Wait, ALL projectiles lost their shield hit lag? Are you certain? (I know you just said that but it's not the going assumption right now I think?)
Paralyzer had a 2.0 multiplier apparently, so it being completely nullified would suck :{ From what I believe Thinkaman showed us was those with large multipliers benefiting more from this.
If so we lost 6 frames of hit lag for 3 extra frames of shield stun. Doh

It may apply to anything with projectile properties, hence our down smash getting effected. I haven't read up on Thinkaman's thing, so I'll have to check that out.

I have, however, empirically measured paralyzer... In hopes that the overall system buff would allow for follow ups... Ideally a grab. I got five frames where the opponent couldn't act. This matches with the new formula for shield stun. That formula days we get five frames. Meaning.... Zero frames of shield lag.

:-(

 

[David Viran]

So apparently SH FF UpAir into DJ rising UpAir is a true kill confirm on sheik at around at least 105%. It's not to hard to land one you get the hang of it and is WAAAAY safer than going for the hard UpB/DownB/DSmash read that gets super punished by sheiks crazy Upsmash tipper. It has ready made my sheik MU much more balanced.

Can anyone lab it out and see if it's a viable kill option vs more of the cast? Would be greatly appreciated

It works on every character. Just that uair is always stale and that drastically changes the kill percents because the first uair doesn't make them go as high when stale and the second is now even more stale.

 

[NickRiddle]

Wait, ALL projectiles lost their shield hit lag? Are you certain? (I know you just said that but it's not the going assumption right now I think?)
Paralyzer had a 2.0 multiplier apparently, so it being completely nullified would suck :{ From what I believe Thinkaman showed us was those with large multipliers benefiting more from this.
If so we lost 6 frames of hit lag for 3 extra frames of shield stun. Doh

I want a cool .gif avatar...

 

[Shaya]

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[NickRiddle]

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Nope. Teach.

 

[T-Loc]

Man, idk what it is, but I cannot hardly land UpAirs out of DThrow on anyone with good DI at most %'s anymore. It seems like when the opponent changes it up between DI'ing in or DI'ing out-->airdodge I have a 50/50 chance of landing the UpAir, making my grabs not worth it in terms of risk/reward. It's really starting to hurt my punish game. How do you guys deal with players that know how to DI our throws?

As far as changing up the DI, it seems like at least Sheik and Luigi can guarantee never getting hit by the UpAir at mid % if they just DI out and airdodge. I'm always like 1 frame too late.

 

[Trifroze]

If ZSS has rage then it's harder or in some cases impossible, but even then you can usually uair again and frametrap them out of their airdodge.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Oooh. Ohh. Oh I'm so sorry. Current discussion on the shields thread has brought to my attention that I may have tested paralyzer in a way that still allowed shield lock frames to be counted... It uhh. Might be worse on shields than previously reported...

 

[pichuthedk]

Oooh. Ohh. Oh I'm so sorry. Current discussion on the shields thread has brought to my attention that I may have tested paralyzer in a way that still allowed shield lock frames to be counted... It uhh. Might be worse on shields than previously reported...

Oh please Kami-Sama no!
If that's the case looks like I am going to retire as the paralyzer queen ; (.

Anyways did that 1.1.2 patch happen yet I never checked out the specifics wondering if it's just fixing diddy.

 

[Champ Gold]

I'm getting addicted into using that flip kick a lot.

I really need to stop before it kills me.


AGAIN

 

[Trifroze]

Finding actual utility for side b now, I'm guessing it received a safety buff equal to tipper zair because they're both electric and do 6%. Even fast characters with good dash attacks like Mac, Falcon, Fox and MK seem unable to punish max range side b after the patch, let alone someone like Mario or Ness who never had a chance to begin with.

p-p-p-perhaps this move can finally be considered an actual spacing tool?

 

[Honor]

I have been implementing it as such since the update and having success

 

[Exodia]

New to smashboards but have been playing competetively for almost a year now. Top player in my region (Alberta, Canada). After that brief summary I'd like to discuss edgeguarding. Seems in certain maps a good mixup I might start using is a flip jump wall jump on simple recovery characters. I know it might just add complications, but What do you guys think?

 

[Exodia]

I'd like to post a video I took but I'm not sure how.. For example I meant the area under battlefield lets you wall jump with the flip jump and gives you higher elevation. It's difficult to explain though.

 

[PyrenZero]

New to smashboards but have been playing competetively for almost a year now. Top player in my region (Alberta, Canada). After that brief summary I'd like to discuss edgeguarding. Seems in certain maps a good mixup I might start using is a flip jump wall jump on simple recovery characters. I know it might just add complications, but What do you guys think?

Welcome! Anything your opponent doesn't expect is a good mix-up, and I don't think anybody would expect that. I find the timing on the flip-wall-jump a bit tricky but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to work in with some lab time.

Also, hi all, ZSS main from South Australia reporting in. Been watching the thread for a while and looks like there's some legit info in here.

 

[Shaya]

Side-B was basically the "**** off" poke before that acted out to me as a landing zair (i.e. can hit people on the ground during times you'd like zair to be usable but it isn't).
But now individual hits are producing enough stun I believe to not allow easy roll ins, removing one of it's practical weaknesses and it's even less able to be punished from a shield drop at max range.

When you have [reverse] wave bouncing paralyzer and side-b, ZSS flies around and pressures at such a far away range, it's great

 

[ぱみゅ]

Wait, so nobody used the username "Exodia" before?
Huh.

 

[Shaya]

Obliteration - E1

 

[Exodia]

Lol guess not, my goal is to obliterate the others after all Btw the 1.1.2 patch dropped, anyone notice other changes besides Diddy being fixed? (good on that btw) I have school very early so I can't check. I'll be skimming through the forums though throughout the day

 

[Jaxas]

Lol guess not, my goal is to obliterate the others after all Btw the 1.1.2 patch dropped, anyone notice other changes besides Diddy being fixed? (good on that btw) I have school very early so I can't check. I'll be skimming through the forums though throughout the day

According to @Thinkaman (so a trustworthy source) there were 0 changes to character files with 1.12; it's very likely to be just a bugfix.

 

[pichuthedk]

I'd like to post a video I took but I'm not sure how.. For example I meant the area under battlefield lets you wall jump with the flip jump and gives you higher elevation. It's difficult to explain though.

you can but it's dangerous for a few reasons. I don't want to assume anything ,I am however gonna guess you mean flip wall jumping back over to them and kicking/spiking them because, you can act faster than if you footstooled them and she will grab the ledge where as flipstooling them won't let you.

 

[Exodia]

Alright guys currently on non-mobile version and may I add this is dramatically better haha. If anyone is interested there's a major going on in Alberta this weekend called TCEG Con featuring Ally, M2K, Yoh and Blacktwins. Tomorrow is just doubles, but if you guys wanted to tune in and possibly give me advice or helpful criticism that'd be cool too! Fellow Zss mains are a tough find at least for me anyway.. Stream will be on twitch.tv/EdmontonGamers. Don't mean to spam. Still new so I'll get used to how things work around here lol

 

[Otterz]

Alright guys currently on non-mobile version and may I add this is dramatically better haha. If anyone is interested there's a major going on in Alberta this weekend called TCEG Con featuring Ally, M2K, Yoh and Blacktwins. Tomorrow is just doubles, but if you guys wanted to tune in and possibly give me advice or helpful criticism that'd be cool too! Fellow Zss mains are a tough find at least for me anyway.. Stream will be on twitch.tv/EdmontonGamers. Don't mean to spam. Still new so I'll get used to how things work around here lol

Honestly ZSS mains are hard to find for me too. I'm one of the best ZSS in my area and thats almost solely by default! Then again NC loves their Sonics... Every other person seems to play him

 

[pichuthedk]

Alright guys currently on non-mobile version and may I add this is dramatically better haha. If anyone is interested there's a major going on in Alberta this weekend called TCEG Con featuring Ally, M2K, Yoh and Blacktwins. Tomorrow is just doubles, but if you guys wanted to tune in and possibly give me advice or helpful criticism that'd be cool too! Fellow Zss mains are a tough find at least for me anyway.. Stream will be on twitch.tv/EdmontonGamers. Don't mean to spam. Still new so I'll get used to how things work around here lol

How much do you think it will cost to go up there from Toronto I might talk to black twins or Yoh if they decide to drive or soemthing.

Also I feel you and Otterz except I knew of another zss main V115 so unfortunately I couldn't be the best one I will forever be the "practice girl of Ontario " for those looking to test their mettle against him

 

[Exodia]

How much do you think it will cost to go up there from Toronto I might talk to black twins or Yoh if they decide to drive or soemthing.

Also I feel you and Otterz except I knew of another zss main V115 so unfortunately I couldn't be the best one I will forever be the "practice girl of Ontario " for those looking to test their mettle against him

I believe they took a plane so I don't think it'd be possible to come as of now :/

 

[Champ Gold]

Most of the people I know that play Smash hardcore all play &.

Rarely see any ZSS mains in my area of Houston.

I did see a from San Antonio.

 

[pichuthedk]

Does anyone know what the rules for the crew battles at TBH5?
I know it's all said and done but I am curious as to whether Bengal chose BF or if the Rosa got to pick the stage.
I personally try to avoid stages like BF in that MU , But would like to hear to input/insight of others regarding those circumstances to broaden my horizon a smidge, and Exodia Don't worry Fam I saw Blacktwins post on facebook and became super salt bois lol.

 

[Exodia]

Does anyone know what the rules for the crew battles at TBH5?
I know it's all said and done but I am curious as to whether Bengal chose BF or if the Rosa got to pick the stage.
I personally try to avoid stages like BF in that MU , But would like to hear to input/insight of others regarding those circumstances to broaden my horizon a smidge, and Exodia Don't worry Fam I saw Blacktwins post on facebook and became super salt bois lol.

Lol what do you mean he became super salt boys? BF is a good stage against Rosa because of luma being stuck on the platforms for a free simple back air to take her out. Lots of room offstage to edgeguard while she's recovering as well. I like to use boost kick near the ledge because it extends the duration of the hitboxes while you get a free kill on Luma and possibly getting Rosalina as well. She's not threatening by herself at all, the Mu is pretty easy once you figure it out

 

[PyrenZero]

Honestly ZSS mains are hard to find for me too. I'm one of the best ZSS in my area and thats almost solely by default! Then again NC loves their Sonics... Every other person seems to play him

In SA it's more or less just me and @andrebound. There's 50+ characters in the game and less regular tournament attendees than that here so it's not overly surprising. Nice to have just about everybody playing someone different.

 

[DragonBall_Zack]

Hi everyone, I have got a few questions I need answering, could someone be kind enough to help me out?

1) How do you guys practise spacing ZSS's moves?
2) How can I stop autopiloting?
3) How do you guys deal with anxiety during matches? (I get anxious even during friendlies lol).

I've found some sparring partners and they beat me pretty much 90% of the time. They say I'm a decent ZSS but that my spacing is pretty bad and I'm predictable. I'm not sure what else I can work on apart from those two things as I feel I still have a lot of issues I need to sort out in regards to my playstyle.

 

[Kurri ★]

Hi everyone, I have got a few questions I need answering, could someone be kind enough to help me out?

1) How do you guys practise spacing ZSS's moves?
2) How can I stop autopiloting?
3) How do you guys deal with anxiety during matches? (I get anxious even during friendlies lol).

I've found some sparring partners and they beat me pretty much 90% of the time. They say I'm a decent ZSS but that my spacing is pretty bad and I'm predictable. I'm not sure what else I can work on apart from those two things as I feel I still have a lot of issues I need to sort out in regards to my playstyle.

As someone who consistently loses to a Ganondorf, you gotta be conscious and mix things up. If you usually recover low, mix it up and recover high. If you find that you use u-air after d-throw a lot, use b-air instead. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable could give an in depth explanation.

 

[PyrenZero]

Hi everyone, I have got a few questions I need answering, could someone be kind enough to help me out?

1) How do you guys practise spacing ZSS's moves?
2) How can I stop autopiloting?
3) How do you guys deal with anxiety during matches? (I get anxious even during friendlies lol)

I've found some sparring partners and they beat me pretty much 90% of the time. They say I'm a decent ZSS but that my spacing is pretty bad and I'm predictable. I'm not sure what else I can work on apart from those two things as I feel I still have a lot of issues I need to sort out in regards to my playstyle.

If you can, watch videos of yourself playing and be critical. Pick out times where what you did worked and times when you could have used a better option. If you're short on ideas for better options, watch some of the top ZSS players and be critical of them too. As for the specific questions, here's my 2 cents:

1. I actually like practising spacing against the CPUs because they read your inputs and frame perfectly punish you if you mess up most of the time.
2. Sometimes just force yourself to forget about how you perform in a match and just try and nut out an opponent's play style and habits. Soon enough you'll think of ways to counter what they're doing and work these into your game instead of spamming your usual options.
3. Going in as many tournaments as possible makes the anxiety less frequent for me, keen to hear others' thoughts on this.

 

[Tito Maas]

I'm having a lot of trouble connecting UAir to UpB on Ness. It's really hurting my game when I can't maximize what I get out of grabs and throws. How do y'all complete this combo against floaty characters? And if you don't, what do you do instead?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Try to hit with the very beginning of the move, that makes it much more likely for the last one to connect (at least in my experience). Sometimes you might want to start Boost Kick INSTEAD of doing a second Uair, or sometimes not even Uairing and perform a raw Boost Kick.

 

[Otterz]

It's not uploaded yet, but once it is we should really look at the Nick Riddle vs ESAM set at MLG. Nick Riddle really showed some good stuff for the ZSS v Pikachu MU.

Great play NickRiddle , that Flip Kick should've killed!

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Great job @Nairo !

You definitely bought... The boost kick to heaven!