Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[NickRiddle]

At 20% you can get uair > ff uair, but then you'd either have to perfectly land on a platform to MAYBE get another uair, or the opponent would have to air-dodge...

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

At 20% you can get uair > ff uair, but then you'd either have to perfectly land on a platform to MAYBE get another uair, or the opponent would have to air-dodge...

Yeah that's possible. I was more fixated on the BnB combo as dThrow followup.
If I remember correctly if you want to get the BnB after a landing uAir the percentage requirement is even higher.

On another note, c stick nAir is incredibly useful if one wants to do full hop FF nAir.

EDIT:

OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD @ Shaya I DID YOUR PP DSMASH THINGY WITH THE CIRCLE INPUT
MAYBE I CAN DO IT CONSISTENTLY AFTER TWO MORE YEARS TRAINIG <3

 

[c23lui]

Honestly i feel like a reputable ZSS main like @ Nairo @ NickRiddle or @ infiniteV115 should make a video to debunk ZeRo's ZSS video.

ZeRo being the best player in the game means that his opinion has a lot of sway. If the flawed mindset that ZSS is too good is perpetuated ( 20% > grab = death) then we could definetly expect some nerfs in the coming patches.

Hopefully this video could even help to educate the public about the true precision and dedication necessary to utilize ZSS at a high level.

As it is, ZSS is a really good character that requires a lot of time and effort to master. The same cannot be said for many other high tier characters that can be mastered simply by understanding downthrow follow ups.
We need to protect our beloved Bounty Hunter from the nerf hammer.... Please understand.

 

[David Viran]

Zero's word does not nerf characters.With all the out cry on sheik and they are still reluctant to actually nerf her. They haven't touched zss in any patch since the 1.0.4 patch unless you count the most recent one where her entrance messes up now for some reason. Also zero wasn't the first one to say zss might be second. I was hearing it before that video.

 

[c23lui]

Zero's word does not nerf characters.With all the out cry on sheik and they are still reluctant to actually nerf her. They haven't touched zss in any patch since the 1.0.4 patch unless you count the most recent one where her entrance messes up now for some reason. Also zero wasn't the first one to say zss might be second. I was hearing it before that video.

I understand it's not ZeRo's word.
Its the consequence of what he says. His opinion has a lot of sway. There was a widespread outcry to nerf the Hoo-hah and Sakurai eventually listened.

If people begin to perceive ZSS' kill power to be OP then the result of a widespread misconception could mean an incoming nerf.
And what better way to spread the misconception than through the lips of the most famous Smash 4 player in todays day and age?
Just a precaution...

 

[David Viran]

Except unlike with diddy zero never said zss was op. He also said she MIGHT be 2nd.

Maybe zss is 2nd maybe not. I'm not gonna say she is but at least it's possible.

 

[infiniteV115]

You're better in smash4 than you ever were at brawl.
SUCKER.

That's what's supposed to happen; the game is easier and ZSS is better

 

[CatStache]

@ Nairo @ NickRiddle @ infiniteV115
ZeRo being the best player in the game means that his opinion has a lot of sway. If the flawed mindset that ZSS is too good is perpetuated ( 20% > grab = death) then we could definetly expect some nerfs in the coming patches.

Hopefully this video could even help to educate the public about the true precision and dedication necessary to utilize ZSS at a high level.

I like it!

Zero's word does not nerf characters.With all the out cry on sheik and they are still reluctant to actually nerf her. They haven't touched zss in any patch since the 1.0.4 patch unless you count the most recent one where her entrance messes up now for some reason. Also zero wasn't the first one to say zss might be second. I was hearing it before that video.

One thing is for sure. If ZSS gets nerfed , we're taking Sheik with us.

 

[Shaya]

If they nerf her like they've nerfed a lot of other characters (compensation things), I could be happy.
Less kill power on boost kick for it not having RCO? Done, 100%. I'm actually going to use that move aggressively in the air and on the ground because of the reward.
Less many things for better hitboxes (animation start ups, vertical positions, larger size [any]) on jab, uair, fsmash maybe even uair? Wouldn't we all take a lot for a more functional short hop game? Or not the same degree of BS on short characters? Oh so we don't guaranteed up air upb (or straight upb) all the fatties for their stocks at 60%ish but can jab out of shield against Pikachu?
What about side-b? It could be better.

But when you think about how they could nerf her, it gets complicated really. What's over the top on her (two killing specials with extreme amounts of risk involved?), what about the rest of her moveset does anything stand out? 1 frame jab (that whiffs 1/3rd or so of the cast), good throw game (on a huge risk high start up move?), low landing lag on aerials?
Like her kit overall has no polarizing / awkward spikes to it like Diddy did with his up air, grabs and grabs, or Luigi with fireballs and his grab game...
Except her two kill specials... Which maybe taking some kill power off wouldn't kill her but the fact she's a featherweight with the most structural risk to her kit out of the entire top tier makes nerfing this complicated.

They haven't touched Mario or ZSS since WiiU (the amount of characters this applies to otherwise is D3, Oli, Jiggs..). Until we see indications otherwise we can assume those characters are sitting in a spot the balance team are happy with. Heck, they keep buffing Ness for god's sake.

I still have these kawaii dreams where Zero Suit gets end lag taken off of down tilt and side-b, no more RCO, Y pos reduced and [slight] hitbox size increase on jab, fsmash, uair [selfish: fair, utilt] and then I get to play a completely and utterly super functional well designed beautiful top tier character *squee*
Marth in Brawl was really close. RCO was the ****ter, basically and dash attack was average.

 

[NickRiddle]

I'm not going to make a video refuting ZeRo, ate you guys crazy?!
"Of course the ZSS main is saying negative things blah blah blah"
Reputation suicide IMO

 

[CatStache]

What about side-b? It could be better.

Z-Air > Side-B

 

[Shaya]

I'm not going to make a video refuting ZeRo, ate you guys crazy?!
"Of course the ZSS main is saying negative things blah blah blah"
Reputation suicide IMO

My undercover agent JL is going to be ensuring SFL switch up their 2nds to 15ths, right?

Z-Air > Side-B

Zair is definitely better than side-b in this game. Not sure what you would do with it, could make it kill or something , otherwise it's niche in her kit is kinda hard to define (or expand on). Less lag and it's a grounded/multi hit zair, and maybe's that overzealous. Faster start up would maybe be similar.

But don't forget, this move can be b-reversed and wavebounced and you can side-b at any point in your dash.
Her dash options are actually pretty meh overall when you think about it, slow dash to shield, poor reactive sh choices. Maybe there's some sort of grounded superwave bounce we're all unaware of right now that would revolutionize its usage (something something samus super wavedash)

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

My undercover agent JL is going to be ensuring SFL switch up their 2nds to 15ths, right?



Zair is definitely better than side-b in this game. Not sure what you would do with it, could make it kill or something

Brawl sSpecial incoming

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm not going to make a video refuting ZeRo, ate you guys crazy?!
"Of course the ZSS main is saying negative things blah blah blah"
Reputation suicide IMO

What reputation

ZeRo changes his opinions like every week and some of his videos already contradict each other, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. He also said ZSSika is possibly in our favour and just assumed we beat everyone else that isn't him or Sheik

 

[Shaya]

Get ESAM to say it.
That'll work out better for basically everyone, I can't see how it wouldn't.
Just throw in lots of "no it's pikachu that's second" and it won't seem like biased ZSS propaganda.

But realistically I don't think ZeRo impacts balance decisions. Maybe his videos will spike usages on for glory.... but until he shows a video of back throw down-b we're safe.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Get ESAM to say it.
That'll work out better for basically everyone, I can't see how it wouldn't.
Just throw in lots of "no it's pikachu that's second" and it won't seem like biased propaganda.

But realistically I don't think ZeRo impacts balance decisions. Maybe his videos will spike usages on for glory.... but until he shows a video of back throw down-b we're safe.

Now that I think about it
ZeRo video = more FG usage = more ****ty ZSS losing = worse results = no data that supports a nerf

 

[Champ Gold]

ZeRo says stupid stuff for years. Being under M2K, he learns his tendencies of complaining alot


Remember this is the same ZeRo who said was broken due to the his aura mechanic and rage despite Lucario not reaching Top 32 in most cases.

Winning 41 straight sets doesn't mean your word is always law.
So in my case with ZeRo is this:

 

[NickRiddle]

My undercover agent JL is going to be ensuring SFL switch up their 2nds to 15ths, right?



Zair is definitely better than side-b in this game. Not sure what you would do with it, could make it kill or something , otherwise it's niche in her kit is kinda hard to define (or expand on). Less lag and it's a grounded/multi hit zair, and maybe's that overzealous. Faster start up would maybe be similar.

But don't forget, this move can be b-reversed and wavebounced and you can side-b at any point in your dash.
Her dash options are actually pretty meh overall when you think about it, slow dash to shield, poor reactive sh choices. Maybe there's some sort of grounded superwave bounce we're all unaware of right now that would revolutionize its usage (something something samus super wavedash)

Killing people with the first hitboxes of side-b might be the most satisfying thing ever.

What reputation

I have a reputation, just a small one since I can't travel much.

 

[Peahnuts]

I once had the weird hitbox of side B slide a yoshi off stage and I assumed they buffered a down B or something cause they suicided game 3 and it was ****ing hilarious.

 

[CatStache]

I once had the weird hitbox of side B slide a yoshi off stage and I assumed they buffered a down B or something cause they suicided game 3 and it was ****ing hilarious.

What weird hitbox, and what do you mean by buffered?

 

[Champ Gold]

What was Nairo's mindset in the tournament for going Zelda?

Also nice win against Dabuz

 

[David Viran]

Nairo was just having playing around having fun.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Nairo why you miss those easy dSmash followups at high percent ;_; just go for flip kick

 

[Champ Gold]

Nairo why you miss those easy dSmash followups at high percent ;_; just go for flip kick

Wasn't one of the missing platforms in the way of doing that.

That's my main thought

 

[CatStache]

Esam's thoughts on the smash 4 tier list as of 1.1.0

ZSS is rated #8.
Pikachu is #2

 

[Nairo]

Nairo why you miss those easy dSmash followups at high percent ;_; just go for flip kick

because I was trying to style there. I know what would work lolol I thought I made it obvious that I was fooling around with the tbags and taunts!

 

[Champ Gold]

because I was trying to style there. I know what would work lolol I thought I made it obvious that I was fooling around with the tbags and taunts!

Functional is better than style.


It what separates the men from the boys and the champs from the chumps

AKA Why playing will never get you near a top 8 ever

 

[Peahnuts]

Functional is better than style.


It what separates the men from the boys and the champs from the chumps

AKA Why playing will never get you near a top 8 ever

True, but this was a local and I'm sure he felt like he had it in the bag in this occasion. It's not like he'd be doing this at Apex or something

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Functional is better than style.


It what separates the men from the boys and the champs from the chumps

AKA Why playing will never get you near a top 8 ever

Or do both
For example with dSmash > aerial uSpecial

Anyway, every time you do this Nairo I get flashbacks to EVO.
No matter if serious or not lol.

 

[pichuthedk]

You were ranked at Brawl at some point whereas you've only made HM for S4. Also didn't you lose to that random Rosa at Gameswap

I lost to that random Rosa who just picked zss and was mimicking me which I let happen due to a moments of arrogance.
IIRC I had been saying how "arguably by results I was 2nd best zss in southern ontario" I got him to one stock both games and the he beat me.

I played him a again in losers and literally murdered him with a 3stock , afterwards he immediately got right the **** off zzs and switched to Rosa which I murdered him as well not losing a single stock both games in 3 stock format.

So come at me bro I can defend my lady zss more if you'd like .

Also I'm telling you right now if I had taken that set off of ally(Niagara) and Armen at my last toronto tourney (meltdown).

I might have had another chance at ranking.

 

[Shaya]

So this may be cool...

Back Throw Dash Jump Paralyzer Charge.
Need to experiment or something.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So this may be cool...

Back Throw Dash Jump Paralyzer Charge.
Need to experiment or something.

Wut
I'm at work right now, trying to visualize how that would look like. Do you want to trap a jump / punish a missed tech into a forced getup?

 

[Shaya]

It's like going for paralyzer instead of flip jump and you release it to cover their falling with style/gravity problem.

There may be a degree of frame trappy/guaranteed follow up nature to it.

 

[pichuthedk]

I'm not going to make a video refuting ZeRo, ate you guys crazy?!
"Of course the ZSS main is saying negative things blah blah blah"
Reputation suicide IMO

I'll be the scapegoat if you want I already don't have much of a rep xD.

 

[Peahnuts]

Is the ZSS skype group active at all? Also Discord is looking like a pretty good Skype alternative.

& I for some reason cannot picture your frametrap Shaya, but it sounds cool. Will have to add that to my list of things to test/practice in training mode.

 

[Take 5]

Is the ZSS skype group active at all? Also Discord is looking like a pretty good Skype alternative.

& I for some reason cannot picture your frametrap Shaya, but it sounds cool. Will have to add that to my list of things to test/practice in training mode.

Yep, active daily (100+ members), with higher traffic during Sm4sh tournament streams!

 

[Peahnuts]

Yep, active daily (100+ members), with higher traffic during Sm4sh tournament streams!

Sweet, posted a request in the thread, I think I already had a while ago but never got invited lol.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Sweet, posted a request in the thread, I think I already had a while ago but never got invited lol.

Same here

 

[pichuthedk]

God I keep forgetting to join that.
Just like I keep getting distracted with the Mu thread.

Question is there a reliable way to practice tether trumps? I might be getting motivated soon. Although I suppose knockING a couple off will just have them up b to the ledge iirc.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

God I keep forgetting to join that.
Just like I keep getting distracted with the Mu thread.

Question is there a reliable way to practice tether trumps? I might be getting motivated soon. Although I suppose knockING a couple off will just have them up b to the ledge iirc.

What do you mean?
Run offstage, do sSpecial, don't forget to not immediately get off.
If you know your opponent will react in time drop > jump and punish the getup because we have less frames that we need to spend on the ledge with tether trump than other characters with regular trump