The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

[Trent]

Every Sonic spin dashes like an idiot from time to time, some more than others.

We just can't help ourselves, we wanna go fast and Spindash is SO FASSSTTT!

 

[da K.I.D.]

i still think that grenades, landmines, c4 and jab make it so that most of the time its really not worth spindashing at all against snake.

 

[Espy Rose]

Landmines and C4 are avoided as long as you pay attention to where he plants them, grenades should actually be giving you a reason TO spindash, and jab...jab is lame, lol.

There IS a tiny window where you can hit him during the jab, but it's stupid small.

 

[Trent]

Fun fact: FSmash goes through Snake's Jab. GL getting it off though.

 

[da K.I.D.]

f smash goes through everybodys jab, even ikes, its better on ike, because you can stand right at him jab range, which make him want to jab you, and than when he sticks his hand out, boom. 14% to the dome.

 

[Exceladon City]

I felt like being gutsy and MMing Fonz's Lucario. I have the set saved and compressed to a .rar on Megaupload. Would anyone care to record it for me? Also, I still hate Pictochat. I CP'ed him there game 2 and did worse than I did game 1. So yeah, **** Picto. I should've take him to PS1.

LAB 1 $2 Money Match
Excel vs Fonz
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X1OAFYU8
Game 1-SV
Game 2-Pictochat

 

[Kinzer]

Perfect timing. I just managed to save a couple of matches from yesterday's tourney (but stupid me, never the whole sets. >_<). I can upload those two while I go through my batch.

Also, does anybody here happen to have the forced replays hack? Not to be a douche, but this is just so I won't forget to save all of my matches. Seriously.

 

[WedginatorX]

Oh look. Excel lost a money match. That's totally new.

 

[Exceladon City]

Oh look. Excel lost a money match. That's totally new.

Eat a **** Ethan...

 

[da K.I.D.]

and he wonders why I have him on ignore.

maybe if wedge could get off of his moms teat for 2 seconds, he might be able to show up to a tournament and lose some money matches of his own.

 

[WedginatorX]

I lost like 1 with sonic to a matchup that's currently looking like a hard counter from the discussion that's going on. Won my other one against a pretty notable player in my region. K?

 

[Kinzer]

Alright Excel, your videos are uploading/processing ATM. I had to wait until now to get this done because YT was down for maintenance. I'll put them in the proper format when they're all up. This goes for my videos as well. Until then:

http://www.youtube.com/user/VSKinzer?feature=mhum

 

[Exceladon City]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDlJFCAQyhg - Excel (Sonic) vs Fonz (Lucario) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M_esiS7ILk - Excel (Sonic) vs Fonz (Lucario) 2

So yeah...I WANT A ****ING CRITIQUE!! It drives me nuts when I'm like "Could someone critique these for me?" and it goes unnoticed. /*****fit

 

[Browny]

Make your attacks hit

Seriously

I only watched last minute of match 2 and no exxageration, more than 90% of your attacks required lucario to jump/run into them, he just had to stand still and they missed.

 

[Exceladon City]

Make your attacks hit

Seriously

I only watched last minute of match 2 and no exxageration, more than 90% of your attacks required lucario to jump/run into them, he just had to stand still and they missed.

I honestly couldn't tell you what was going through my mind. If anything I had probably gave up because I wasn't going to win or come close to not getting 2 stocked. I picked Pictochat because I wanted to see if it would actually work in my favor. Clearly, it didn't. Pictochat is balls.

 

[infomon]

wow that luke rly likes his balls

I like how the related videos are all about "Learn MS Excel basics!" teehee

If anything I had probably gave up

don't ever let that happen again.

I picked Pictochat because I wanted to see if it would actually work in my favor. Clearly, it didn't.

Yes it did. It totally did. It gave you an approach and you were able to get hella damage off of it. Your gamestyle was very different than the first match, and in a way that clearly benefit you; except for when you made some mistakes and took terrain damage.... but that was your mistake and not rly your opponent's achievement.

I think there's some unpolished aspects of your character's self-control that you need to work on. Particularly with things like, throwing out bairs, you'd often miss the target, or just seem to have their timing a bit wrong. Work on buffering and timing (do you have homebrew? maybe try to figure out exactly what frame things can come out and see if you can refine certain things, like make sure you're able, when you want, to react as quickly as possible out of a landing or shielddrop).

I feel like you might be trapping yourself in spindashes a bit too much. I know it's a stupid matchup and it's not clear to me either what to do. But maybe get more comfortable with DDP'ing and shorthopping.

There were some missed opportunities when your opponent would roll too much, without any real prompting, and you could have just left a hitbox where he was rollin' lol, particularly with bairs.

*shrug* but I'm terrible at this game.

 

[WedginatorX]

Excel, you keep on dashing into shield and making no use of it. When you do that they're bound to either spotdodge or attempt to punish. Once they see you're standing in shield, try jumping oos and doing a crossup bair.

 

[Kinzer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOKMphWPXMI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Kinzer(Sonic) & Tails(Sonic) Vs. Lycan(Snake) & Zombe(Donkey Kong) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdXnviC1Msw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Kinzer(Sonic) & Tails(Sonic) Vs. Lycan(Snake) & Zombe(Donkey Kong) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xILxDX49EXA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Kinzer(Sonic) & Tails(Sonic) Vs. Trog(Luigi) & Cruz(Wolf)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urXz5cJluhg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Kite(Ike)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnImx3D9Myo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Exo(Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJuR4n0SEM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Exo(Lucario) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtgiYWeogZM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Kinzer(Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuE-y3_wRXo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Kinzer(Lucario) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez8ZUs_0pzw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Kinzer(Sonic) Vs. Hino(Falco)

(Sorry Espy, I lost track of what set this was, though if you don't want to put it down, especially since I didn't save the other match, :/ that's fine.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypx5kh0VfSU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Kinzer(Sonic) Vs. Twinx(Ness)

Before any of you get on a tangent, just STFU please. Like none of you haven't gotten beasted yourself by low-tier characters that you have no experience or practice against. FOW did not help me at all what with all CPing high-tiers now and whatnot, I'm going to practice that stupid GRCG now that I actually have a reason to. I'm only putting this up to serve as a reminder to myself to always practice even the obscure MUs. Yes I won this one, but I also lost the next two. Frankly because I should've banned Brinstar against Ness, but that's a learning experience gduioghusdioghuig;sd.

I really need to make more friends on the scene. There's enough diversity around to give me what I want/need, and enough skill to give me an idea.

I'm going to put on that "Save Replay" texture. This is the last time I want to forget, and hopefully my SD card won't brick itself again.

Somebody please help Jerry. This guy cannot kill his habits or play against me/Lucario for his own life. Something besides the most obvious "you FSmash too much" and "you roll too much" please, I've already pointed that out to him multiple times... now, and in the past. He still hasn't killed those habits. :/

And now~...

Ugh~!

Finally, all the videos are up. After so many complications with maintenance, and then the first video freezing on me not once, but twice! The second time around it froze when it was 95% finished! Not only that but now the order is out of sync because YT couldn't upload what was the 5th video in the queue. At this point the order of upload doesn't bother me since I mainly put videos up to be archived in the WSC but it's still a hassle.

Anyway Excel, if there's any one thing I've noticed and if Infzy hasn't already pointed out, you get really desperate for FSmash kills/punishes at times. In some cases you did it where it was obvious he wouldn't die. If you ever play against Lucario again just let the kills roll in by themselves, it's best not to force them to come. Play the MU as if to avoid damage, not to dish it out. Obviously if you don't you're only going to make Lucario's job easier, and the MU is frankly not so bad when he ain't all puffed up on killpower. :X

Oh, I should ask. What're the details? Any you'd like for me to put in the description? I know it was a MM, but that's about it. Nothing about when it happened (lol@your Wii having it on 2034. I hope this isn't Sonic's future. /JK), what the stakes/Steaks were, or perhaps where it happened.

Anyway back to critique.

Go for plain stages. Don't rely on gimmicks like iSDR this time around since Aura can clank and eventually beat you out of your attacks. You want as little distractions/temptations with this MU, focus all your energy on beating the Lucario player. You did much worse on Picto because of this, and I know you're better than this.

Don't ever spot or rolldodge in this MU. Hold down that shield button like your life depended on it... it frankly does. Lucario can punish commitments like that easily with his attacks. If your shield is low just run away and wait for it to regenerate. Lucario cannot pursuit you, and Aura Sphere is easy to see from a mile away as long as you're in a neutral position (much different story when you're like recovering or something but that's another issue).

Don't try and punish his FSmash with anything OoS except for possibly a DA. Nothing else will work except maybe Running grab but I highly discourage that.

Don't go for jab resets. Either finish them or don't do them in the first place.

That's all I can point out. I hope your experience teaches you well.

 

[Exceladon City]

Yeah, once I saw iSDR wasn't working, I was pretty much like "Welp, I've lost this match." I don't CP Picto for anything. It doesn't benefit me in the least.

I think playing wifi has implemented some bad habits into my gameplay. Like, I know I'm not the most stellar Sonic ever, but one thing I did pride myself on was not having a roll habit. I'd rather walk or run away as it leaves me more options than a roll. The only thing I roll for is if I predict an Fsmash and time it so I'm rolling behind Lucario as he's about to perform the attack. It pretty much grants me a free grab or Fsmash if I do it right.

But yeah, I'm still bad no matter how much I practice. Espy, any advice?

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Suck less.

 

[WedginatorX]

Lmao paul. Ily.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I actually didn't watch excels matches when I posted that. I watched the one on SV though, and you punished Lucario like, 3 times with single jab. I don't know what that's about. I couldn't focus on anything else after seeing that. Well, besides Lucario not being pressured at all. Just a bunch of cancels that did absolutely nothing to get you in closer. People don't need to react to canceled spins when you're on the other side of the stage.

 

[Exceladon City]

There's a reason I play this . I'm clearly incapable of playing

 

[infomon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez8ZUs_0pzw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Kinzer(Sonic) Vs. Hino(Falco)

'gratz at 0:10.

 

[sonictailslink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnImx3D9Myo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Exo(Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJuR4n0SEM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Exo(Lucario) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtgiYWeogZM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Kinzer(Lucario) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuE-y3_wRXo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Tails(Sonic) Vs. Kinzer(Lucario) 2

Can I please get some major help with my match up against Lucario. Wedge gave me some advice earlier and I've already noticed some problems with my style. If you can please give me some more advice, that would be helpful

And Kinzer, thank you for uploading my matches.

 

[Tenki]

Not too much of a bite on you, and actually it's more general than anything.

So I was thinking about spindashes the other day and watching one of Tails' video and some others kind of helped confirm it.

When doing down-B (ESPECIALLY) vs projectile users like Falco/Wolf/Lucario/Pikachu... that sort, try not charging while you're rising, possibly on your actual attacking one.

I looked at some really old frame data from dNES and our full hop is about 40 frames, total. Think of it - what I usually see is someone doing a SH going towards the person WHILE charging ASC. The sound is like a "LOLHEY,SHOOT ME" warning. Some people won't just sit in shield and will actually you know, throw something out at your predicted landing path, since we all seem to love doing a FASC, so a plain old grounded downB (SHFF'd) might do us better.

 

[JayBee]

that's a smart observation. I'll try to do this more often.

 

[Mr. Johan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6QbjH6smI8 - Joshua (Sonic) vs. Holms (Wolf)

A pools match where everyone still got in to the bracket, so I dunno if Holms was even trying, but nonetheless it is tournament.

Dsmashing seems to be really good against Wolf :/

lol@him not dying until 190 too.

 

[da K.I.D.]

the first 5 seconds of the match is really good to show why wolf is bad at camping sonic. might be good for the matchup discussion.

 

[WedginatorX]

What do you mean? He just powershielded and dash attacked right at the start... it's not like that always happens and that it's insanely easy to approach wolf once he gets a decent lead and goes b-airborne

 

[Death Arcana]

alright guys before X went to cali i asked him for a little training with sonic and ever since ive been watching a lot of his matches trying to get better. Whats better than to Money match?
here is a match against his bro Lada who Chris plays all the time.
i know i sorta get owned but im trying to learn more. some critique?
DS4 vs Lada money match

 

[Kinzer]

Let me go over what is immediately apparent:

Don't try to challenge R.O.B. in CQC. Even if Sonic can somewhat match the speed (though I doubt this), R.O.B. can outrange Sonic and if you need to hit R.O.B. get in and get out.

You (air)dodge(roll) into a lot of attacks. Same goes for Dairing. into said attacks. Sometimes it's the other way around and you don't shield/dodge a follow-up which can be easily avoided.

You spam smash attacks.

For some reason, you do a lot of empty/dead Spin Charges.

It just seems as if you had trouble controlling Sonic. Understandable if you rarely play him. Sonic rewards diversity in the person's playstyle though, and being able to analyze the opponent and adapt helps a lot. It would be nice if you knew the spacing and whatnot, but really that's something that can be fixed with time and practice.

Last but not least:

You didn't start the match with Down-Taunt. Best mindgame against R.O.B.s, true story bro.

 

[infomon]

welcome deathbysquarez

Stop going towards the opponent. I mean, you do it all the time, even while recovering. Try to get yourself into safe zones, rather than always rushing at him hoping you'll land some attacks.

Shield ROB's gyro, it will disappear... you seem to try to jump when it's coming towards you which rarely works out.

Also, that ROB would just do things like throw out Nairs. Sonic can punish Nairs, but you'd often move yourself too far away for it to be useful. Be ready with shorthopped fastfalled Bairs; stay out of his range and poke in when it's safe. Though make sure you're not falling towards him if you're trying to bair him... then you'd get shieldgrabbed.


idk, some of what kinzer said. kinz, what's CQC?

 

[Espy Rose]

Close-quarters combat, Infzy.

 

[da K.I.D.]

That video reminded me of me vs chibo from apex 2009

... or was it 2008?

 

[Tesh]

You spindashed way way way too much and basically got hit for free with things that will always beat spindash.

 

[B.A.M.]

Wow i just typed up some long post welcoming this guy and its all gone. So im just gonna summarize it.


- Learn Sonics spacing; its waaaay different than most characters
- You have to mix up spin dash for it to be effective
- dont go SDSC and shield dashing for no reason; you should be using that time to actually thinking of a solid tactic
- Dont sell yourself short; there are tons of Sonic techs _X_ doesnt utilize. Go through our boards, watch Espy as well as the other prominent Sonic mains here.
- Sonic has a ton of options, and for that reason a ton of different play styles that excel at particular things. Learn from your fellow mains; they all have something to teach, even the bad ones.


Welcome to the Sonic boards!

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psLfm03flPk&feature=feedu

holy balls.

It looks like I move so fast in vids but it seems so slow when im actually playing.

feel like im getting back into fighting shape for pound V, what do you guys think?

 

[WedginatorX]

Lmao
that metaknight got hit by everything.

 

[Life]

Looks good KID. Seems like he walked into a lot of stuff tho. That one random SL he did for instance.

Still good considering the matchup's, what, 60-40? But don't rest on your laurels ^.^