The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

[Browny]

just make it a tinyurl... watch the magic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=censored word here

quote my post to see what I did, put the url containing a censored word into tinyurl and put that near the start of the code, and then whatever you want near the youtube code, it doesnt even have to be a real link.

 

[Exceladon City]

Hey I got some new stuff. Could some record these please?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XU0CYWD0

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8CBZ1ZNY

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X246EF10

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VP6KNO71

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E2RWBG8B

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IEU54JKD

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J6IPC79B

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XJL87T5D

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IER54QH1

On another note:

These are from Blade's Temp. Goodbye Tournament
I think it was loser's quarterfinals

vs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=102i_S6pH3k Excel v Zozefup 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui8cROgQz8o Excel v Zozefup 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWPnn0lG_w Excel v Zozefup 3

 

[Browny]

lmao the ending of that first one vs zozefup was nice.

The perfect example of 'You're too slow!'

 

[Kupo Rose]

These are from Blade's Temp. Goodbye Tournament
I think it was loser's quarterfinals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=102i_S6pH3k - Oreo Excel (Sonic) vs. Zozefup (Meta Knight) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui8cROgQz8o - Oreo Excel (Sonic) vs. Zozefup (Meta Knight) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWPnn0lG_w - Oreo Excel (Sonic) vs. Zozefup (Meta Knight) 3

/fixed


@Browny: I still can't do it lol. Mind doing that trick of yours with this link? =3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odFAG6UMeLk - da K.I.D. (Sonic) vs. Kinzer (Fox) 2

 

[Tesh]

Good god Oreo, megaupload SUCKS. Mediafire doesn't make you wait 45 seconds to download each file.

Oh Oreo, its always heartbreaking to see a sonic lose on pictochat. You were sooooo close to timing him out and you tried to go for the kill.

 

[Browny]

/fixed


@Browny: I still can't do it lol. Mind doing that trick of yours with this link? =3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odFAG6UMeLk - da K.I.D. (Sonic) vs. Kinzer (Fox) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od***6UMeLk

quote my post again, you can type literally anything you want in the video code lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHhs54H3Er

see

 

[Tesh]

Milk's Favorite Cookie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=novgV9_eB54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_XIvKCWCUY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZPetzMngM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2T2ZSzubK8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnTcf8Itaos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xQLbd3ecZc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJNPMEQ2z-Q LOL this one is in slow motion, the whole thing is there, I will reupload it soon enough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEiADKCKf4g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVmMX6cvztU

 

[Exceladon City]

Milk's Favorite Cookie

vs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=novgV9_eB54 Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Fox) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_XIvKCWCUY Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Fox) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xQLbd3ecZc Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Fox) 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEiADKCKf4g Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Fox) 8

vs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZPetzMngM Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Toon Link) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2T2ZSzubK8 Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Toon Link) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnTcf8Itaos Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Toon Link) 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVmMX6cvztU Oreo (Sonic) vs Zephil (Toon Link) 9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJNPMEQ2z-Q LOL this one is in slow motion, the whole thing is there, I will reupload it soon enough.

Tesh, you're the dude...even though your name reminds me of John Tesh.

One mo' ting, could ya edit the names on the vids? I don't wanna hunt through a ton of Oreo commercials.

Also, could I get some pointers on fighting Toon Link from Espy or anyone that's fought a Toon Link? I know it looks like I mindlessly ran into alot of projectiles, the reasoning is my triggers haven't had the springs taken out so I can't powershield for shiiiiiiit.

 

[WedginatorX]

TL tip 1: Don't jump into the ****.

 

[NH Cody]

Watch Espy vs Jerm, I think that PERFECTLY demonstrates the MU

Minus a few things. Like Jerm not camping enough and Espy getting beat pretty bad at one point first match. Just watch for when Espy uses too much spindash, and gets beat with projectiles, zair, 2 bairs and then grab. Just don't put yourself in that position lol

Basically do what you do (or at least should be doing) when you watch all tournament matches. Observe when the player (Espy) gets good strings, think about what move choices he made, whether it was smart, and whether he got punished for it or not, then use what works and don't use what didn't. With your own style of course.

oh my god, just watched the first TL video...come on man, you have to win those, that TL was BAD lol

I don't usually give people a hard time about losing like that, but when you're talking about a TL that JAB CANCELS WITH DTILT then you just CAN'T be getting twostocked :/ powershield all that stuff, including zair, then you win.

 

[Exceladon City]

Watch Espy vs Jerm, I think that PERFECTLY demonstrates the MU

Minus a few things. Like Jerm not camping enough and Espy getting beat pretty bad at one point first match. Just watch for when Espy uses too much spindash, and gets beat with projectiles, zair, 2 bairs and then grab. Just don't put yourself in that position lol

Basically do what you do (or at least should be doing) when you watch all tournament matches. Observe when the player (Espy) gets good strings, think about what move choices he made, whether it was smart, and whether he got punished for it or not, then use what works and don't use what didn't. With your own style of course.

oh my god, just watched the first TL video...come on man, you have to win those, that TL was BAD lol

I don't usually give people a hard time about losing like that, but when you're talking about a TL that JAB CANCELS WITH DTILT then you just CAN'T be getting twostocked :/ powershield all that stuff, including zair, then you win.

Well once I get my controller fixed my powershields should be back online.

 

[Tesh]

Renamed, want anything done with the descriptions? Like when these matches happened?
You need to edgeguard alot more than you are doing right now, Oreo. Just because the chances of killing them are low doesn't mean you can make some good damage against limited recoveries like those.

Simply edgehogging and attacking from there can get you some free damage and with good reads a gimp. Make sure you know how to dash -ledgehog immediately so you can punish the lag on their recoveries.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but in my experience ASC goes right through arrows and boomerangs from toon link.

 

[NH Cody]

I think it's only during a certain part of the ASC. Like when it starts.

Spindash also starts out as invulnerable IIRC.

 

[Kinzer]

Spindash also starts out as invulnerable IIRC.

The first couple of frames of the Spindash Hop are invincible, yes.

as for ASC's "priority" and how it's able to cancel out projectiles, I'm really not sure myself. I think you have to hit with the part that is at Sonic's 4 o' clock facing right, and his 8 o' clock facing left. I'm not sure how the hitbox works when it's directly in front of him, but then again ASC is meant to be used at an angle anyway so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

P.S. if it means anything, I have managed a couple of times (mostly on accident) to go through Toon Link's Bombs without exploding them with the ASC hitbox. That I have absolutely no idea on.

 

[WedginatorX]

Kinzer got da general idea of it. Idk what's up with asc going thru certain projectiles. I have gone through arrows, bombs, gyros, needles, and even din's fire with asc. But I have no clue why the **** that works.

 

[Tesh]

Din's Fire gets canceled out by pretty much everything.

I wish I did know why sometimes you can hit bombs/grenades without exploding them

 

[WedginatorX]

O din's fire is that free? Had no clue. Never really gave a **** about zelda nor have I played many.

 

[Tesh]

Yea thats one of the reasons its so bad. Doing pretty much anything cancels out the hitbox.

 

[infomon]

The first couple of frames of the Spindash Hop are invincible, yes.

Does anyone know exactly which frames?

Same q for our up-smash.

Edit: and our sprooorrooooiiiing.

 

[da K.I.D.]

to the question about the nades and attacking them without blowing them up.

Think of it like a jelly/creme/custard filled donut.

You can bite into the donut without getting the filling, but if you bite too far into it, than you do. thats how it is with hitting snakes nades. the donut is the nades complete hitbox, but the filling is the hurtbox for the nade

 

[Tesh]

KID, is that just a theory? In every single instance I have seen of sonic's forward air hitting bombs/nades without exploding, it was pretty much in the middle of sonic's hitbox. I don't think it has anything to do with just barely hitting the grenade.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I guess its a theory but until now I never had a reason to not believe it that way.

Susa has been posting around the sonic boards lately, he would know for sure.

suasa susa susa susa namesearch susa.

 

[infomon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYIeM29yYtk

can 2:48 - 3:14 please go in a combo video somewhere? lol

 

[WedginatorX]

<_< it was in one...
afk

 

[infomon]

oh lol, alright then :D

 

[Tesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3iTgEtQ-Lg Tesh (Sonic) VS King jaob (Metaknight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vah_6962ZHY Tesh (Sonic) VS ??? (Ness)

Mostly used Falcon, Ganon and PT in friendlies that day. For some reason I have a near impossible time buffering things offline.

 

[Kuraudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMy2TN1sUzU

lol

The one singles video recorded of me. This is against BC's third best (power ranked currently as such)

 

[da K.I.D.]

you have to slow down and pay more attention to which side of you he is landing on after tornado, he basically came back from a full stock down because he kept doing that to you. sonic doesnt have a quick move that hits both sides, so you just have to pay more attention.

dont up throw so GD much, mk should never live past 200. once he starts getting around the 150-160 mark, do other throws, try to kill him off the sides with back throw, or try to get a followup with f throw or down throw but just dont up throw any more so you can get it fresh so it will kill mk at 180.

by the way, kinzer or espy, is there any list somewhere or when up throw kills every character with MC and DI?

 

[Kinzer]

I haven't gathered the damage data with Momentum-Canceling, but I've certainly gathered it with normal (read: proper!) Directional Influence (and nothing more..).

Apparently I never did copy & paste it onto smashboards, but perhaps when I'm back home I should just for the sake of (more?) wholeness/having more data in one place. Gah, AiB was an okay place at the time, but now it's just-

...

Anyway, I can at least give the link here at campus.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=610127#p610127

Take that data with a grain of salt though... it's far too old, and the method of gathering those numbers were robust at best compared to the tools we have now.

I'd be willing to bet now that with proper MCing U-Throw is even worse. I just don't know how bad is, and I can't really find out since I'm not well-versed with all the characters to know; let alone perform, their momentum-cancels...

 

[da K.I.D.]

come on kinzer. just because you dont play anybody other than sonic doesnt mean you are too stupid to look at everyones aerials and figure out which one is the fastest. you act like Mcing is harder than just hitting the c stick after you get hit.

 

[Kinzer]

No, I'm not stupid. My knowledge surpasses my skills.

That's the problem though.

It isn't (for the most part) a matter of whether or not I don't know what characters ought to do at that moment, it's me being able to get it done. It's very obvious I don't practice with any character aside from Sonic, right? If I were to re-do it, there'd be a lot of room for human error and therefore I may not draw the most accurate results from me doing it by myself.

 

[da K.I.D.]

you have sonic up throw falco, you hold back with falco and you mash on the c stick to bair. whats so complecated about that?

 

[Kinzer]

;~;

I'm not making excuses, but do you realize that what you just said has to be done for at least 35 other characters as well? They all have different aerials that MC more effectively than others (in some cases, it's probably better to airdodge or "bucket brake."), and different percents they die at. This isn't even taking into consideration other varials like stage boundaries, and placements of platforms in relation to the blastline.

It took me a couple of hours the first time around. This project would take me longer, but I do suppose I could... eventually...

... Do it in the future.

I do suppose it's only fair anyway. If I can spend two hours doing a (poor) sketch of Reisen (In-class, haha~!), why can't I dedicate a couple of more man hours into Sonic?

Oh yeah right, I remember now. Hormones. hurr~.

 

[Kuraudo]

Thanks, KID. It was pretty high pressure and everyone was watching too; playing against MK I wanted to work as fast as I can to land the grab for the sake of punishing him, least I eat those NAirs like I did. I'll work on which sides to grab for and turning around to grab after shielding nados like I did.

 

[da K.I.D.]

depending on what the mk is going to do, if you cant tell which side the mk is going to land on, you might want to try a SH nair, and just aim it at which ever side they land on.


and kin. there you go making things complecated again.

theres only like 5 characters max with a reliable bucket break.
mk ( up air drill)
gaw (nair bucket)
sonic (fair down b)
dk (bair up b)
pikachu ( up air skull bash)

there might be one or two others but other than that its not really practical.

also, all I need is what % does fresh up throw kill on fd. as far as platforms and other stages goes, I can extrapolate that kind of thing for myself.

also, when you do mario, find out find out the kill % is for a 1x and 2x staled up throw. I can extrapolate those numbers to the rest of the characters on my own too.

if you know exactly what your doing, it shouldnt take much longer than an hour.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Fair DownB is a bucket brake?

God I've been gone for too long. Also I thought Uair ended sooner than Fair did?

So, I'm gunna go Sonic next time I play KoolAid in bracket. I'll try to get it recorded.

 

[Kuraudo]

LOL The thought of that makes me laugh actually. In a good way though, kinda like giving MK a taste of his own medicine. Thanks.

I think you're missing Luigi though with his Side B? FAir to Side B works pretty quick, but I don't think it's as fast as Pikachu's skull bash.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wes+vs+koolaid&aq=f

that might help you out a bit. and we never tested it with frame data, but its pretty much established that fair is faster than up air.
luigis from what I know, dont do that often because they can be punished for it.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Oh and Zelda has a pretty nice brake. It stops momentum dead, exactly like a bucket brake but it's technically difficult and if failed kills her earlier, lol.

Bair BReversed NL.

It is very effective, trust.

EDIT:

I appreciate the video, but to be honest, I play KoolAid enough at this point that I'm going Sonic mostly cause I play the char differently, very differently, than I play anyone else. And we know each other styles pretty well. He's just a better player. So hopefully switching it up can give me an edge or something.

Chances are I'll still lose, KoolAid is a better player than me. But I'm working on that... gunna be a long road though.

 

[WedginatorX]

Yeah but remember, there haven't been any decent sonics in NE forever. Although he did play wes once forever ago, but he didn't appear to have that tight of a grip on the matchup. You could probably get away with a few more things on NE players as sonic than say nj/ny or md/va players who play against sonics more often.