The Weapon Triangle: Unofficial Ike Matchup Number Topic

[Wyvern-x]

This matchup chart is not 100% accurate. If you find something incorrect post reasons as to why you believe that certain matchup incorrect.

A= Advantage
D=Disadvantage
N=Neutral

Bowser 5.5-4.5 N
Captain Falcon 6.5-3.5 A
Charizard 5-5 N
Diddy Kong 4-6 D
Donkey Kong 45-55 N
Falco 3-7 D
Fox 5-5 N
Ganondorf 6.5-3.5 A
Ice Climbers 6-4 A
Ivysaur 6-4 A
Jigglypuff 6-4 A
King Dedede 3.5-6.5 D
Kirby 45-55 N
Link 5-5 N
Lucario 4-6 D
Lucas 5-5 N
Luigi 6-4 A
Mario 5-5 N
Marth 4-6 D
Meta Knight 3.5-6.5 D
Mr G&W 4-6 D
Ness 55-45 N
Olimar 3-7 D
Peach 5-5 N
Pikachu 4.5-5.5 N
Pit 4-6 D
R.O.B. 4-6 D
Samus 6-4 A
:shiek: Sheik 4-6 D
Snake 4-6 D
Sonic 5-5 N
Squirtle 6.5-3.5 A
Toon Link 4-6 D
Wario 4-6
Wolf 4-6 D
Yoshi 5.5-4.5 N
Zelda 6-4
Zero Suit Samus 4-6 D

 

[Akashi]

I wouldn't give Ike a N on Diddy. Diddy is incredibly fast, and can take advantage of Ike's speed and vertical recovery (very easy to gimp an Ike with nanners off-stage). Ike's lack of glide toss makes him very limited when utilizing Diddy's bananas against him, and the fact that he has no real way to keep Diddy away from his own nanners makes him very vulnerable. Yes, Diddy is light-weight and Ike can KO him early (whereas Diddy has a very hard KO'ing and could potentially take Ike to 160%), but if a GOOD Diddy can start up a nanner momentum then it'll be very difficult for an Ike to counter anything that's being thrown at him. I'd say it's a 4-6 to Ike's disadvantage.

 

[Wyvern-x]

I had a hard time determining that matchup so I put neutral to see what you guys thought about it. I'll chane that.

Anything else you find incorrect?

 

[payasofobia]

How exactly did you made this match-up chart?

 

[MysticKenji]

Fox and Yoshi are even.

 

[Ussi]

A= Advantage
D=Disadvantage
N=Neutral

Meta Knight 3-7 D
Snake 3-7 D
Mr G&W 3-7 D 4-6 D
Marth 4-6 D
Falco 2-8 D*
R.O.B. 3-7 D
King Dedede 3-7 D
Wario 6-4 A*
Olimar 2-8 D 3-7 D
Lucario 4-6 D*
Donkey Kong 5-5 N
Wolf 3-7 D 4-6D
Pit 3-7 D
Ice Climbers 3-7 D 4-6D
Pikachu 4-6 D 5-5 N
Toon Link 3-7 D
Kirby 5-5 N
Diddy Kong 4-6 D 5-5 N
Zelda 5-5 N
Fox 4-6 D 5-5N
Lucas 4-6 D 3-7D
Ness 3-7 D 5-5 N
Zero Suit Samus 4-6 D
Luigi 6-4 A
Peach 4-6 D 5-5N
Sonic 6-4 A 5-5N
Charizard 5-5 N
Ivysaur 4-6 D 5-5N
Squirtle 6-4 A 4-6D
Mario 6-4 A 5-5 N
Bowser 6-4 A 3-7D
Link 4-6 D
Sheik 4-6 D
Jigglypuff 6-4 A*
Samus 6-4 A
Ganondorf 7-3 A
Yoshi 6-4 A
Captain Falcon 7-3 A

What do you think?

Thats what i think. The * means i need to fight someone considered good with that person before i can state my opinion.

 

[Akashi]

You obviously haven't played a "good" Diddy then, sorry. :/

 

[Ussi]

You obviously haven't played a "good" Diddy then, sorry. :/

I believe Player-1 counts as a good Diddy.

 

[Tenki]

I believe Player-1 counts as a good Diddy.

He is a good Diddy, and I'm not sure if he's changed since then (weeks since I last played him), or if he just plays differently against Sonic, but he almost never used things like banana lock or dribbling, etc, when he played against me.

Try playing Alpha Zealot some time lol.

Also, coming from the Sonic perspective, Sonic vs Ike is neutral at best. For Ike.

 

[Akashi]

Yeah, I agree with Tenki. Sonic's speed really does help him in a lot of binds, and he can gimp Ike fairly easy with his spring. All of that, however, is kind of layered out due to Sonic's low KO moves and light-weight.

 

[Ussi]

He is a good Diddy, and I'm not sure if he's changed since then (weeks since I last played him), or if he just plays differently against Sonic, but he almost never used things like banana lock or dribbling, etc, when he played against me.

Try playing Alpha Zealot some time lol.

Also, coming from the Sonic perspective, Sonic vs Ike is neutral at best. For Ike.

Tenki you're the reason i put that match up at nuetral.

 

[Mmac]

Yoshi vs. Ike is neutral. His attacks come out too quick to counter, and combo's the crap out of you. He can also gimp you quite well, and has the added benefit of a Projectile. Ike though, obviously has the kill advantage, and his Jab is rather annoying and can actually stop a Bair if timed right. Also, he can punish greatly if Yoshi isn't careful.

 

[Ussi]

Yoshi vs. Ike is neutral. His attacks come out too quick to counter, and combo's the crap out of you. He can also gimp you quite well, and has the added benefit of a Projectile. Ike though, obviously has the kill advantage, and his Jab is rather annoying and can actually stop a Bair if timed right. Also, he can punish greatly if Yoshi isn't careful.

I personally feel Ike has the advantage, but then again everyone is bias about their characters.

 

[Guilhe]

What is the purpose of this thread? Assign Ike matchups numerical values over it difficulty based on personal experience? Where is the discussion over these matchups? Seriously, we need a matchup guide in our board urgently. All other character boards have sticky’ed one of those!

 

[Wyvern-x]

Changed around some matchups. As for the Yoshi/Ike matchup I find it to be a 5.5-4.5 so I just rounded it up. Ike's range gives him a slight edge over Yoshi.

Ussi care to explain why you find G&W a 4-6 for Ike?

 

[Takeshi245]

6-4 in Ike's advantage?! More like 7-3 in Mario's. He can juggle Ike quite well with u-tilt and uair, fireballs beats out most of Ike's approaches, can do some nasty things with bair and dair since they come out quicker than the majority of Ike's moves, and can gimp your recovery very well with FLUDD and cape. He can cape stall to make your likelihood of getting back more difficult as well. It's Mario's quick attacks and his edgeguarding options that give Ike problems. I main both Mario and Ike so I know what's it's like facing Ike with Mario and Mario with Ike against good players.

 

[Ussi]

range. That simply. G&W has lag in his attacks. out range them while they are in after lag.

and takeshi despite all that i can still beat you =P its more 4-6

 

[Rykoshet]

The only thing that mario has significantly over ike is flipping aether over with the cape, and if the ike is smart he'll start throwing aether backwards to avoid it completely.

 

[Akashi]

Right, also you can't gimp Aether with FLUDD if you place the tip of Aether exactly where the ledge is.

 

[Brinzy]

Ussi, explain to me why you have Lucas at 3-7 but Ness at 5-5.

 

[Ussi]

Lucas's PK thunder completely destroys Ike when he tries to recover. Ness's PK thunder brings you back to the stage.

Ness's fsmash is slow. Lucas's fsmash is fast.

Lucas has a long grab range. Ness has a short grab range.

Ness's air game is great, but its short ranged against Ike. Granted Ness can do some things to Ike. Ike can outrange him if you dedicate your battle to NOT get grabbed by him once you hit 100%, you'll survive longer. Lucas's air game isn't combo material like Ness's, but its fast.

Those 3 things Lucas has makes a big impact. Shield grabbing, easier time hitting Ike during his lag, and completely owning his recovery.

 

[Takeshi245]

range. That simply. G&W has lag in his attacks. out range them while they are in after lag.

and takeshi despite all that i can still beat you =P its more 4-6

I still beat you, too. Mario>Ike.

 

[Brinzy]

Lucas's PK thunder completely destroys Ike when he tries to recover. Ness's PK thunder brings you back to the stage.

Ness's fsmash is slow. Lucas's fsmash is fast.

Lucas has a long grab range. Ness has a short grab range.

Ness's air game is great, but its short ranged against Ike. Granted Ness can do some things to Ike. Ike can outrange him if you dedicate your battle to NOT get grabbed by him once you hit 100%, you'll survive longer. Lucas's air game isn't combo material like Ness's, but its fast.

Those 3 things Lucas has makes a big impact. Shield grabbing, easier time hitting Ike during his lag, and completely owning his recovery.

Two issues here.

Number one, Lucas's Fsmash is also short-ranged and deals less raw damage. Connecting with the tip of Ness's does 25%, and it's even easier on tall Ike who has a slightly harder time DIing PK Fire, meaning you get PK Fire -> tippered bat combos that can do 40% with ease. Most people fear Lucas's Fsmash more than Ness's overall, and I can understand the issue there, but Ness's is a lot more rough.

Also, the speed difference is virtually not present. Ignore Lucas making noise when he does it and just watch the stick and the bat at the same time. There's about a 0.1 second difference. That could mean the difference between a hit or a miss, but they won't randomly Fsmash against an Ike who isn't in any kind of lagtime.

Number two, Lucas's grab is terrible unless you pivot grab, in which case, you now have a situational grab that you can only get if Ike chases you, and I don't think Ike likes to chase down psychic brats, does he? Well, not on the ground I would think. Ike's sword should be getting past Lucas's grab, and both will grab when it's time to punish. Ness has significantly less lagtime if he misses a grab as compared to Lucas, and if Lucas pivots, Ness still doesn't have the "situational" thing that Lucas does, along with PK Fire to set up a throw and slightly more dangerous throws in general.

And, while it's not really an issue here, Ness doesn't have to edgeguard with PK Thunder. He can use PK Flash, which, when charged up, is pretty much a kill after around 50%. PK Thunder is for when Ike can already make it back, and then there's PK Fire to stop him in the air.

I can see why people would hate Lucas more, but I dunno, 7:3 Lucas and 5:5 Ness? Not that I'd know looking from the outside in...

 

[Ussi]

fine, Lucas can be 4-6 happy?

PK fire, i always DI out of before they can fsmash/grab, i usually just get dash attacked.

Yes Ness has PK flash, it kills aether, which is why QD is the way to go when you see him charing it. QD usually will beat out the flash cause they are timing it for aether which will come later. Or change how early you aether and such, its all a timing battle.

and Lucas has an easier time shield grabbing Ike thats what i meant by his long grab range.

 

[Brinzy]

lol, I'm not saying change your view or anything, I was just asking.

PK Fire is hard to DI out of if you're hit with it from above because the hitbox is actually larger on the bottom than the top. I can see why you'd be able to get out easily otherwise.

And I dunno, isn't it kinda obvious when Ike is going to do QD vs. Aether, barring like, a small, small blurry line? If they're timing for Aether, they're timing for the longest possible charge. Otherwise, they get to release a bit earlier.

Nevertheless, I was just curious, not necessarily testing you.

 

[Lemon Drop]

I have a suggestion to make this topic easier to pick out thingson the list.

Make the matchups where Ike is at a advantage green, while making the ones that he is at a dissadvantage red. Leave neutral match ups white.

 

[Mmac]

I still say it's Neutral for Yoshi. He's got alot on him that counters the natural range and power he has. Speed, Chaingrab, Projectile. Plus the Eggs can really mess up his Recovery

 

[Ussi]

one, Ike is hard for yoshi to chain grab. two, yoshi isn't too much faster. 3, eggs don't mess ike's recovery, we'll just do it again.

But everybody plays differently prehaps playing you will show me it's nuetral. Every yoshi i've battled I felt I had the advantage.

 

[Tenki]

one, Ike is hard for yoshi to chain grab.

Something being "hard" to perform (in the technical sense) shouldn't be dismissed in a matchup. Sonic is 'hard' for Yoshi to chaingrab, but can he do it? Yes. And it can lead to bad things that I don't want to relive ;__;

 

[YagamiLight]

Most of the disadvantages in the original, randomly posted list are actually neutral, and some advantages are neutral as well...

Regardless, I don't think just simply posting a list will do any good. These numbers have little meaning, you need a detailed analysis next to every single matchup.

 

[MysticKenji]

Bowser 6-4 A

I thought we all agreed Boozer > Ike a while ago. Did I miss something?

 

[Wyvern-x]

Yagami: To make a detailed analysis on a matchup enough people have to agree on how good or bad the matchup is. The numbers are there so we can determine how bad or good the matchup is and make an analysis from there.

Mystickenji: I probably wasn't around for that. Care to elaborate?

 

[Alus]

can you get rid of the scratchouts and just erase them they are kind of making it harder to read...

and @kenji

ike airels > bozzers detection box im guessing...that is in theory...

 

[Ussi]

bowser is faster than Ike, heavier, and has the fire breath. Up b out of shield makes it harder to approach.

But now that we have a dair combo that goes to quite a good percent on bowser, it can go down now. Maybe.

 

[XACE-K]

bowser is faster than Ike, heavier, and has the fire breath. Up b out of shield makes it harder to approach.

But now that we have a dair combo that goes to quite a good percent on bowser, it can go down now. Maybe.

It might go down. I would say it would stay at 6-4 in Bowser's favor or a 5-5 tie.

 

[Wyvern-x]

Ike outranges Bowser, racks up damage quick on Bowser, if Bowser doesn't sweetspot the edge Ike could d-tilt spike him, Ike can edgeguard bowser well because of his predictable recovery(though Ike's is pretty predictable too), and they both kill each other around the same %s

 

[MysticKenji]

Ike outranges Bowser,

Firebreath

racks up damage quick on Bowser,

The same is true in reverse

if Bowser doesn't sweetspot the edge Ike could d-tilt spike him,

Boozer's recovery auto-sweetspots...and if he's not sweetspoting then...
a) you've just been edgeguarded and can't punish him
or
b) he's recovering too high to be dtilted

Ike can edgeguard bowser well because of his predictable recovery(though Ike's is pretty predictable too),

Boozer's Edgeguarding > Ike's in this matchup

and they both kill each other around the same %s

For outright KO's, yeah.

 

[Wyvern-x]

Firebreath- F-air outranges it

Damage Racking- Ike has tilt-stick dair to another aerial, jab canceling, along with nair "combos"

Edge Guarding- All of Ike's aerials, aether(***** bowser's recovery), eruption and to a lesser extent d-tilt

 

[MysticKenji]

Firebreath- F-air outranges it

No, it doesn't.

Damage Racking- Ike has tilt-stick dair to another aerial, jab canceling, along with nair "combos"

Boozer has jab, tilts, firebreath, klaw, fair and grab releases

Edge Guarding- All of Ike's aerials, aether(***** bowser's recovery), eruption and to a lesser extent d-tilt

If you try to Eruption my Boozer, I will klaw you/sweetspot the ledge.
Anyway, Boozer has fair, firebreath and QD punish.

Good luck edgeguarding with Ike's Nair, btw

 

[Wyvern-x]

F-air will connect with bowser if you jump over the tip of the fire. If bowser attempts to aim up wards he will already be hit with the f-air.

Ike's jab > Bowser's jab
Ike's u-tilt > Bowsers
F-tilts are about equal
Bowser's d-tilt > Ike's
D-air to another aerial > Klaw (damage racking wise)
N-air and its chaining options > f-air
Firebreath and grab releases- you got me there


Try to klaw me and I'll release eruption before your klaw is in range.

Edgeguarding with N-air is pretty easy with tilt-stick