The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[SaveMeJebus]

What?

We weren't playing a game, Jebus. We were testing how Onett worked.

What's your point? If the DDD wanted to, he could have timed you out after that kill. You can only safely approach DDD like three seconds out of every thirteen.

 

[Conviction]

That is plenty opportunity actually.

 

[hichez50]

Well Ok lets say that onett is bad in singes. I can't see why it couldn't be a doubles stage.

 

[Conviction]

Well Ok lets say that onett is bad in singes. I can't see why it couldn't be a doubles stage.

It's fine in singles. I'll play Zatch on there since he mains Ike. (Wait isn't he switching characters though?)

@San: You never answered me, can the car be DI'd away so the Fair won't land and if not can you Air dodge before the Fair hits?

 

[san.]

I don't think DDD is that great on Onett.

Let's talk about stages with an ACTUAL chance right now.

Namely, Japes and Pirate Ship.

@Iblis: No, you can get hit by the car and then immediately the fair because of the hitlag/stun and fair covers all directions.
This is only for the left side. The right side doesn't offer as many options for car combos except for fthrowing/jabbing and shielding or something

 

[Conviction]

I think Onett has an actual chance but it is true that Japes and Pirate do have a better chance due to popularity.

Ah is that so? Thanks for the info.

 

[hichez50]

Pirate ship has a chance? I don't see why not but it has been banned since the game came out.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

That is plenty opportunity actually.

Not really since it is basically a forced approach every thirteen seconds. If you don't take the chance, you will have to wait another thirteen seconds not to mention the fact that this becomes vary predictable after a while.

 

[Player-1]

Pirate Ship hasn't been banned since the game came out >.>

 

[hichez50]

Lets not be too literal here.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Legalize Jungle Japes. Matches taking too long is not a good enough reason to ban a stage

 

[Conviction]

Yeah they are forced to approach/react that is perfectly fine. They are forced to do this 36.9230769 times. So round to 37 times, what move that obviously predictable is DDD going to that can't be punished when he is forced to react?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Yeah they are forced to approach/react that is perfectly fine. They are forced to do this 36.9230769 times. So round to 37 times, what move that obviously predictable is DDD going to that can't be punished when he is forced to react?

With this kind of logic, I don't see how all walk offs can't be legal

 

[Player-1]

Lets not be too literal here.

I'm not....

 

[san.]

DDD isn't much of a threat on Onett. He still loses to his counters here, or at least the walls wouldn't be a problem at all for a lot of the cast.


Pirate Ship was always considered a legal stage on the BBR list, but people just didn't know much about the stage. The rudder camping thing before it was found out to not be that good caused the stage to be unused in tournaments sometime in 2009.

You get offstage damage from rudder camping as well as risk dying, and 2/3 transformations makes you leave the transformation, and you're vulnerable when resurfacing. Rudder camping is not very viable as a tactic. The water is WAY too laggy to be able to be camped effectively. Only like 2-3 characters can do much, and that's still worse than their offstage games on other stages.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Why wouldn't players be able to walk off camp on this stage?

 

[Conviction]

With this kind of logic, I don't see how all walk offs can't be legal

BoE is banned because it is painfully easy for DDD to CG people to hell. The bull doesn't solve anything at the speed it moves. Especially when you can just do a pummel and it makes the hitbox on the bullrider inactive.

DDD isn't much of a threat on Onett. He still loses to his counters here, or at least the walls wouldn't be a problem at all for a lot of the cast.


Pirate Ship was always considered a legal stage on the BBR list, but people just didn't know much about the stage. The rudder camping thing before it was found out to not be that good caused the stage to be unused in tournaments sometime in 2009.

This this.

 

[B.A.M.]

LOL Jebus said something about logic. Gets me every time.

@San: Was Rudder Camping the sole reasoning behind the ban on Pirate Ship? If so I dont see much we can do aside of a more comprehensive analysis of what you just said.

 

[Conviction]

I remember rudder camping being the sole purpose.

@Jebus: ...it's been stated many times the cars stop it. Actually I just told you.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I remember rudder camping being the sole purpose.

@Jebus: ...it's been stated many times the cars stop it. Actually I just told you.

Well why wouldn't that Boar thing on Bridge of Eldin be able to do the same thing?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

@San: Was Rudder Camping the sole reasoning behind the ban on Pirate Ship? If so I dont see much we can do aside of a more comprehensive analysis of what you just said.

Well, first of all it's been shown that rudder camping actually isn't that good. Second of all, if it's actually an issue, you can just ban it. If that's all that's keeping the stage down, then just ban it, just like we ban Planking and IDC.

One thing I'm worried about though... MK spamming SHuairs under the front of the boat. Possible issue?

 

[B.A.M.]

I dont see how that could remotely be an issue BPC. Unless Im missing something. Which transformation are you referring to?

 

[Conviction]

Well, first of all it's been shown that rudder camping actually isn't that good. Second of all, if it's actually an issue, you can just ban it. If that's all that's keeping the stage down, then just ban it, just like we ban Planking and IDC.

One thing I'm worried about though... MK spamming SHuairs under the front of the boat. Possible issue?

The Uair thing sound plausible

Well why wouldn't that Boar thing on Bridge of Eldin be able to do the same thing?

Because DDD can just CG and kill you before the boar even comes. I also just said a simple pummel makes the hitbox on the boar/bull/ugly thing go inactive.

 

[B.A.M.]

The Uair thing sound plausible



Because DDD can just CG and kill you before the boar even comes. I also just said a simple pummel makes the hitbox on the boar/bull/ugly thing go inactive.

It really makes no sense to argue these things with Jebus. Hes not testing any of them. Or reading what you are saying. I really dont understand why he complains about certain mechanics of the game then disregards peoples retorts.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I still think that the warning gives players plenty of time to power shield the cars and continue to walk off camp.

B.AM is just mad because he couldn't win an argument in real life.

 

[Conviction]

It really makes no sense to argue these things with Jebus. Hes not testing any of them. Or reading what you are saying. I really dont understand why he complains about certain mechanics of the game then disregards peoples retorts.

I know it's derp.

I still think that the warning gives players plenty of time to power shield the cars and continue to walk off camp.

...they powershield they get shield lag like if you power shield a waft, you grab them, fthrow, they die. Best time to powershield obv.

 

[san.]

One thing I'm worried about though... MK spamming SHuairs under the front of the boat. Possible issue?

EDIT: Reading your post again, you mean underneath the front ledge, right? The short hop part of uair is confusing me.

LGL. It just sounds like planking, but without the risk of dying to MK (that easily) because of the water. Planking isn't as good on this stage even without a LGL, still pretty good though.

If he even dares to touch the water, the majority of the cast can run off and hit him (possibly into the boat)

The front ledge you can also hop through, so some aerials/grenades can hit through it.

 

[Conviction]

Yeah I just tested powersheilding the cars, there is MORE than enough time to grab them.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

They can always just jump to avoid the cars. The way I see it, it's just as obvious as approaching DDD when ever a car comes.

 

[Conviction]

LOL you see it wrong. If he jumps you punish the jump. This is so damn simple.

If they camp the left side, you run in RIGHT after the car and punish, if they camp the right it's the same thing.

What is DDD going to do? If you can't punish a forced reaction you should feel bad because it happens all the time in the game.

EDIT: Does anyone have legit problems besides DMG? DMG, I'll do some matches against MK to see what you mean.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

why is the scrooging thing just being talked about...? I thought it would have been talked about like right after this went on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSxJoUwjTm8&

 

[SaveMeJebus]

LOL you see it wrong. If he jumps you punish the jump. This is so damn simple.

If they camp the left side, you run in RIGHT after the car and punish, if they camp the right it's the same thing.

What is DDD going to do? If you can't punish a forced reaction you should feel bad because it happens all the time in the game.

EDIT: Does anyone have legit problems besides DMG? DMG, I'll do some matches against MK to see what you mean.

The player approaches, you punish the approach. Same thing

 

[Conviction]

...are you really this...nevermind

Look. You aren't the one being forced to react. You wait on the building, DDD is blast zone camping, the car comes, you charge in right after the car, DDD is the one in the bad position because he is forced react.

Like I said before if you can't punished forced reactions you should feel bad. This is like arguing how hard it is to punish someone who got edgeslipped or after a jab lock ended.

It's not possible to be that dense Jebus.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

...are you really this...nevermind

Look. You aren't the one being forced to react. You wait on the building, DDD is blast zone camping, the car comes, you charge in right after the car, DDD is the one in the bad position because he is forced react.

Like I said before if you can't punished forced reactions you should feel bad. This is like arguing how hard it is to punish someone who got edgeslipped or after a jab lock ended.

It's not possible to be that dense Jebus.

What about if he camps under the platform on the house? The only way to approach would be from the right side.

 

[Conviction]

On the ground? He still gets forced to react by the cars...see a pattern yet?

 

[Bizkit047]

LGL. It just sounds like planking, but without the risk of dying to MK (that easily) because of the water. Planking isn't as good on this stage even without a LGL, still pretty good though.

I can think of ways to avoid getting hit in the water as MK while planking with Uair. Simply nado away (into water or on small boat), most of the cast probably can't follow MK that far away fast enough without risking MK punishing THEM for being in the water, especially if MK cancels the nado in the water fast enough.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

On the ground? He still gets forced to react by the cars...see a pattern yet?

But if you want to punish him for power shielding the cars you have to go around the platform and you will not have enough time

 

[Conviction]

You can drop through the platform...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Personally I'm open for giving Jungle Japes and Pirate Ship a chance and I'm pretty sure both are far more fit for competitive play than RC or Brinstar are.

One huge issue I have with JJ though are the visuals - it's *really* hard to distinguish things here and I can see players with only minor visual faculty issues already having big problems with that stage. That's the biggest and probably only complaint I have with the stage.

 

[san.]

@Bizkit: You would only be able to nado onto the boat. If you nado in the water, that's a LOT of lag. Also, in the water out there, MK has to rely on his crappy horizontal airspeed outside of glide and nado.


About the DDD on Onett bickering, you should be able to camp DDD from the left house small platform. DDD can't grab or pivot grab you when you're standing on that platform.