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The Top Ten Videos of Each Character
- Thread starter BlueXenon
- Start date
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
hahahahah WTF? MK's ability to stall and play extremely defensive is half the reason people wanted him banned, aggressive MK isn't what he's cracked up to be.
Project D
Smash Journeyman
regarding Rykoshet for Ike with his matches against Rhyme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc3vvmGlZLE&feature=related
that currently being best vid for Ike, wouldn't that be better off in the Samus section?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-9OwgESPjo&feature=related
having round 2 imo would be better as Ryko wasn't able to do much in round 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc3vvmGlZLE&feature=related
that currently being best vid for Ike, wouldn't that be better off in the Samus section?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-9OwgESPjo&feature=related
having round 2 imo would be better as Ryko wasn't able to do much in round 3
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
I told them they were free to use either one, i dont mind a video being shown where I got my crap stomped but pulled out a win.
So what? Winning a game with such luck still doesn't show a character at his best. It's not about the camping ...
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
That's exactly how Meta Knight should be playing the Falco matchup, it is very much about the camping. Luck had nothing to do with it, if anything it was closer than it should be because he made mistakes playing outside of his normal style. When MK gets a stock lead and camps Falco can't really do much about it.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Nah, you don't get what he means methinks.
He not saying that he's against the vid because Dojo camped, he against it because he doesn't think Dojo camped well enough to be a top mk vid.
It's a fair objection, he DID leave some openings.
Yeah he left some openings which is quite a valid reason not to add it, but then Gheb posted the video where Dojo DIDN'T even try to camp to that extent and got 3 stocked by DEHF, as if that video was better than the other. That's where I was kinda like Lolwhut?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
And my post was a joke response to the Dojo-DEHF vid already posted. >_>It was a joke response to Dan's suggestion. I didn't see though that somebody serioulsy posted that video before <_<
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Then again, V
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Well, you know... everybody could've just assumed it was a legit falco vid...
Dojo
Smash Champion
I suck man.
Project D
Smash Journeyman
though that case being true, the video is still i believe should be the samus section, I use both Ike and Samus as my mains but I am unable to learn much at all from the vid where Ryko got beaten, mostly dodging and land a few hits, whereas watching Rhyme I would be able to learn more about Samus than the Ike.
I think the real point of contention should be: if a video is boring, why is it among the best videos for that character? Call me crazy, but no matter how much skill it takes to make a match that boring, I don't think a boring video deserves to be considered the best. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, a match that's all camp is actually downright terrible. I don't think aesthetics should outprioritize the display of skill, but I certainly think it should be considered.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
But we're talking about best for a competitive gaming community, not "best overall".
For that reason, aesthetics should simply not be considered.
Especially when considering it means calling vids that are about people playing match-ups poorly the best.
Miles.
Smash Champion
My Jiggs VS DSF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aggd9iyyfh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aggd9iyyfh4
Dekar173
Justice Man
once you start DIing through Snake's ftilt you're gonna be a Snake slayer :D
Since when and according to whom? I've been following this thread from the beginning on the assumption that the videos on the OP were held not just to a standard of viability, but to a standard of aesthetics as well. I'm not saying priority shouldn't be on viability, but given two videos of equal viability but differing aesthetic appeal, isn't the most appealing one definitively better?
You can even go one further: ultimately, a video where the winning player achieves his goal with that extra panache is better for a competitive community. If that player's actions truly are viable, then they can teach how to play a fast, aggressive game without sacrificing viability. Since the country's best players (M2K, Ally, ADHD) predominantly play with this style, doesn't it stand to reason that this style is the best? So shouldn't teaching how to play with this style without sacrificing viability be a goal?
Miles.
Smash Champion
I try to not DI into anyone as Jigs, it never leads to good things for me.
Other than DI-ing into rest people out of multi-hit moves.
Boofy!
Smash Champion
I agree with you about only DI'ing into multihit moves, (IASA ftw)
Also, that was a great game. Especially since your playing snake, who can her at like 80%..
he loses
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
So obviously the best vid of one composed of useless ATs that look cool, but has a style that lacks technique and leaves tons of openings? Or even that we should rate a vid of this style above a slightly better player without the visual appeal?
If it's two otherwise equal vids, and both are worthy of inclusion, pick both.
Visual paunche as a factor of importance is a matter for combo videos, not matches. Skill displayed in-match are what makes a match "good", not what "looks good", because that's what decides the only thing that really matters (other then the potential DQ) who shows up as a winner in the victory screen.
So, why suggest that they're the "best vids", that's not a proper teaching tool, not even on the principal that "aggression is bad" but instead, the principal that "aesthetics matter".
Sure, an aggressive style can be viable, certainly in certain match-ups.
But in match-ups where they try to force it, you'll often find top-level players switch to campy styles when threatened (m2k is particularly known for this).
Now, here's really the heart of the matter, if a playstyle that is visually appealing is the best, go for it, please. However, as soon as you start weighing visual appeal as a factor in skill, that's when the vids become useless as teaching tools. This is a tactical thread, people expect to be able to come here to see top of character's metagames, and judging them based by anything other then that does the players who will use it a great disservice.
We already have stuff that's judged on visual appeal, combo vids. But when it comes to match vids, like matches themselves, visual appeal shouldn't factor into the decision, not even as a tie-breaker
Anyone who says M2K only plays aggressive should have been there at WHOBO where he camped Dojo.
ADHD LOOKS aggressive, but he's just running a well calculated offense that is usually safe if it goes wrong. Trust me I've played him
As for videos, if you give me two unworthy videos and one of them looks "cooler" than the other, I'm still not gonna add it. Granted, if there is a matchup where it's generally advised to be aggressive, like Marth against Falco, then I certainly understand adding videos of more aggressive play. However for the most part, Defensive play IS the best strategy, and as such that is taken into consideration when adding a video.
I'm behind on updates, but I will have them finished by 2:30 AM CST hopefully.
Edit: OK guys through with updates, AND on time too lol.
I'll keep track of this closer.
ADHD LOOKS aggressive, but he's just running a well calculated offense that is usually safe if it goes wrong. Trust me I've played him
As for videos, if you give me two unworthy videos and one of them looks "cooler" than the other, I'm still not gonna add it. Granted, if there is a matchup where it's generally advised to be aggressive, like Marth against Falco, then I certainly understand adding videos of more aggressive play. However for the most part, Defensive play IS the best strategy, and as such that is taken into consideration when adding a video.
I'm behind on updates, but I will have them finished by 2:30 AM CST hopefully.
Edit: OK guys through with updates, AND on time too lol.
I'll keep track of this closer.
Boofy!
Smash Champion
DMG, you are the best thing to ever happen to this thread.
Adumbrodeus, stop presenting strawmen and tearing them down. I'm not arguing for appeal that comes from flashiness or "visual appeal." That's why I said aesthetic instead of visual. The assertion that I'm talking about ATs or somesuch is complete and utter bull****. You're assuming that my position is simply and it isn't. I'm talking about videos that show genuinely brilliant moves--the kind of stuff that gets an exclamation mark in Chess matches; capitalization on the smallest of openings, active pursuit of those openings and consistent ability to identify those openings--indeed, ability to actively induce those openings is preferred above all else. I'm looking for aesthetic appeal that is derived from skill. In other words, it needs to be obvious from watching the match who will be in front on the victory screen. If you would kindly tell me why that isn't desirable, I'd be very much obliged. So far all I know is that you don't want empty flash, and on that front I'm in complete agreement.
Perhaps my issue is that I am not properly conveying my meaning. Have you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? If you have, it'll be much easier for me to say this in better terms. I want to see videos that embody Quality in the sense Pirsig means it. This is what I mean when I say aesthetic appeal. A video that simply shows a viable tactic with no gut feeling that the winner is playing the character at their best is ugly, in Pirsig's sense.
This is why DMG's Brinstar vid is so unappealing to so many people. It's not like DMG is bad or anything, he just let Razer's inadequacies shine through more than he played Wario at his best. So yes, DMG's tactic was viable, but it shouldn't be a best vid because DMG's play lacked Quality. It is not unappealing in that DMG is not Waft Cancel Wavesliding. It is simply boring. (Ironically, the third match in that set is more interesting, not just because DMG showed a lot more prowess with Wario, but also because Razer literally beat DMG at his own game, although I wouldn't recommend it because there are certainly better Snake vids out there.)
Perhaps my issue is that I am not properly conveying my meaning. Have you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? If you have, it'll be much easier for me to say this in better terms. I want to see videos that embody Quality in the sense Pirsig means it. This is what I mean when I say aesthetic appeal. A video that simply shows a viable tactic with no gut feeling that the winner is playing the character at their best is ugly, in Pirsig's sense.
This is why DMG's Brinstar vid is so unappealing to so many people. It's not like DMG is bad or anything, he just let Razer's inadequacies shine through more than he played Wario at his best. So yes, DMG's tactic was viable, but it shouldn't be a best vid because DMG's play lacked Quality. It is not unappealing in that DMG is not Waft Cancel Wavesliding. It is simply boring. (Ironically, the third match in that set is more interesting, not just because DMG showed a lot more prowess with Wario, but also because Razer literally beat DMG at his own game, although I wouldn't recommend it because there are certainly better Snake vids out there.)
Boofy!
Smash Champion
lol @ Waft Cancel Wavesliding, that's not really a technique is it?
If it is, I'd like to know what it entails.
phoot, there's nothing Razer can do on a stage like that. In fact I don't think Ally himself would be able to stop Me/another good Wario doing what I do on Brinstar.
The third match of the set, if you are talking about the first Brinstar Set, I SD at 0% on my first stock. Second set third match I actually played quite bad also (Uaired him when he fell with a grenade instead of Chomping, didn't read his rolls/mortar slides at all, etc).
My Brinstar matches TEACH a lot about taking Wario's strengths and abusing them on stages even past Brinstar. They would not learn how to do that watching one of my other videos where I engage more in combat.
The third match of the set, if you are talking about the first Brinstar Set, I SD at 0% on my first stock. Second set third match I actually played quite bad also (Uaired him when he fell with a grenade instead of Chomping, didn't read his rolls/mortar slides at all, etc).
My Brinstar matches TEACH a lot about taking Wario's strengths and abusing them on stages even past Brinstar. They would not learn how to do that watching one of my other videos where I engage more in combat.
Miles.
Smash Champion
DMG is the best thing to ever happen to me.
Full homo.
Full homo.
I realize all of that, but you're completely missing the point. The point is that the Brinstar match was boring, which you've already admitted is a fair assessment of it. Knowing how to avoid damage is a valuable skill, but there are interesting matches that showcase the same skill, along with several others. I'm saying that because they are interesting, they are better, both aesthetically, and as teaching tools.
And remember, when I say boring and interesting, there's more at work here than flashiness. It's not even about whether or not the timer runs out. It's about whether or not you can tell that the player is playing the character with Quality. If the timer runs out without you even noticing that seven minutes have gone by, I'd say the match is pretty interesting, and has play with good Quality.
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
The Rookie Fox video has apparently been removed on Youtube...
Dekar173
Justice Man
Like me vs Santi at SWAT, I had no idea the timer was even going until it was gone, because despite him playing campy, it was an intense match XD
The ******* ;P
Kinzer
Mammy
I haven't seen any match on Youtube that has that.Then include a vid of a D3 infiniting a DK. That's the best strategy to use in that MU, so why not include one?
Just playing the Devil's Advocate.
Sure they may demonstrate it, but doing it in a tourney setting is a site all on its own.
It wasn't a serious request. All I am saying is why include a vid of a specific MU where you have to play REAL gay and don't have to demonstrate much knowledge or skill of your character when you can show a vid that DOES show that? I just threw out the D3 DK example because it meets the criteria of knowing the best strategy in a specific matchup, so if I can get a vid of that then it is able to be put up for nomination even though probably no one would agree with it. I guess if you want a more practical example, then what about a vid of Shiek FTilt raeping a Fox?
As I said before, I am only playing the Devil's Advocate.
I guess to prevent further confusion DMG should clarify what "best" really means in the OP. It was clarified a LITTLE, but not good enough, in my opinion. It's easy to tell we all don't have the same definition of what "best" is ITT.
As I said before, I am only playing the Devil's Advocate.
I guess to prevent further confusion DMG should clarify what "best" really means in the OP. It was clarified a LITTLE, but not good enough, in my opinion. It's easy to tell we all don't have the same definition of what "best" is ITT.
Throwback
Smash Lord
way to derail the best thread on this site. Let DMG put up the vids he considers best - that way people will still post matches here and there will still be awesome stuff to watch.