The Top Ten Videos of Each Character

[DMG]

Gnes I did it for the swag man.

M2K did it for the paper though.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I don't get why that match has so much controversy...

EVEN IF Gnes did outplay M2K, which he didn't, we all know who the better player is. All I saw was a video of M2K not knowing a matchup so he played gay to win. What's the problem? We all get timed out once in a while.

 

[Kaffei]

I don't get why that match has so much controversy...

EVEN IF Gnes did outplay M2K, which he didn't, we all know who the better player is. All I saw was a video of M2K not knowing a matchup so he played gay to win. What's the problem? We all get timed out once in a while.

The problem is that there is a character in the game who can turn invincible for a long *** time, have a near unbeatable plank and can fly under stages like no otha

 

[DMG]

Here's the problem:

You have a character that, for all purposes, is not beatable at the top level with no holds barred. No one can dream of touching MK in that state. Now, say you impose a LGL on him. Now he goes from just mere planking, to scrooging. Now you say "No no no, no no no. Stop Gliding." So now the game goes from that, to planking and scrooging with resets, and maybe some air camping. So then you say "Sorry bud, you can't have a 1.3:1 or higher air time to ground time ratio." So MK sits in his shield and beats approaches with Upb or Ftilt/Dsmash/Tornado/move of the month. So then you say "Cmon MK, that is too good man. Gotta give us a chance. Don't do that." So MK uses Down B extensions that you can't tell whether he is extending it more than it naturally extends or not. So now you say "Ok MK, we're gonna have this judge look at you with a frame calculator. Don't do that anymore." So now MK powershields your attacks and grabs. Then you say "Ahh man, we're not stopping this guy anytime soon, let's make him unable to move." Then MK drops on the tier list so low that the only person below him is Ganondorf.


THAT is the problem....































He's better than Ganondorf.

 

[Kaffei]

ok dmg wins

 

[Gnes]

I don't get why that match has so much controversy...

EVEN IF Gnes did outplay M2K, which he didn't, we all know who the better player is. All I saw was a video of M2K not knowing a matchup so he played gay to win. What's the problem? We all get timed out once in a while.

Uh...who said i knew the matchup LMAO.

The controversy is that he used a tactic that was unpunishable. Thats all.

As for your other stuff, your entitled to your own opinion.

 

[B!squick]

Aerial is down... >.>

 

[Grizzer]

Aerial is down... >.>

press it while you're jumping up...

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

then hit the B button like you don't give a ****

 

[DMG]

MK DA BESS

This thread proves it

 

[Mota]

Ahhhh Brawl Metagame at it's finest. MK dittos <3

M2K vs Meep was pretty ****.

 

[B!squick]

I like the video where Meta Knight wins.

 

[Variable]

I like the video where Meta Knight wins.

I don't. =/

 

[Spelt]

Currently the most productive thread on BTD.

not really saying much ... actually


this thread is just awesome.

 

[Hylian]

Best ic video:

This was in tournament .

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HmSBeT8I2fg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HmSBeT8I2fg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

hahaha.

 

[Scabe]

LOL that ending was so good!

 

[DMG]

Oh and I will revert this back to normal sometime this weekend. In the meantime, I will continue to amass moar MK videos.

 

[Mota]

Double ICs is chaos!

Would love to see a doubles match with all 4 players as ICs.

 

[Grizzer]

haha, best IC vid ever, you're my hero!

 

[Crow!]

Best vids of every character thread: now cutting the crap and showing only the matchups that actually matter!

 

[demonictoonlink]

Uh...who said i knew the matchup LMAO.

The controversy is that he used a tactic that was unpunishable. Thats all.

As for your other stuff, your entitled to your own opinion.

Did you even read what I wrote? Where did I claim you knew the match up?


As for everything else posted in here, pro ban needs to jerk itself off more.

There is a difference between unbeatable and insanely hard to beat. And DMG's post was terrible...So we need to make restrictions to keep a character in the game. So what? Brawl isn't a good competitive game by nature so we do what we can to make it so.

Or no changing. We could leave it to two minute free for alls. But then we want stock and an 8 minute timer. But then Lucario gets really good if he's behind significantly, so we make it one stock. And Wario could just jump around for that time and MK could just grab the ledge a lot, so we remove the time. And ICs 0-death from a grab so we ban grabs. And every character isn't as good as MK so we are only allowed to down B glitch with Kirby.

I get it. Restrictions are a slippery slope, but it's one we've followed just fine in the path.
Ban MK or don't, but we don't need to ***** about him in every thread ever.

edit: sweet MK vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4g2oUdvlRo

 

[Shinjin]

Can we get all the other videos back? And most definitely some character-individual ones?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

This should only include top-level videos. These are all the top-level videos.

Except for Plank vs thatdiddyiforgotthenameof

 

[Shinjin]

You're kidding, right? I know he's top-level, but that doesn't mean a good thread wasn't ruined. Original premise was best vids for "each character", and now it's just a sloppy collection of Meta Knight videos.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Other characters (safe for Pit and GaW) may have best videos, but they aren't even slightly good compared to Meta Knight's best videos. Thus, no character safe for MK, GaW and maybe Pit can have a place in this thread.

 

[KillerJawz]

Successful troll is successful.

DMG already said he was going to get the original post back to normal anyway.

 

[Conviction]

Shinjin shut up and enjoy the joke. It will go back to normal.

Always that one person that can't take a joke.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It was Plank vs Dapuffster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw
This NEEEEEDS to be in.

 

[demonictoonlink]

The joke is kinda funny, but I really just want people to keep posting good videos. I actually enjoy watching Brawl...a lot.
So, yeah, people should keep posting them regardless of the OP for now.

 

[DMG]

Did you even read what I wrote? Where did I claim you knew the match up?


As for everything else posted in here, pro ban needs to jerk itself off more.

There is a difference between unbeatable and insanely hard to beat. And DMG's post was terrible...So we need to make restrictions to keep a character in the game. So what? Brawl isn't a good competitive game by nature so we do what we can to make it so.

Or no changing. We could leave it to two minute free for alls. But then we want stock and an 8 minute timer. But then Lucario gets really good if he's behind significantly, so we make it one stock. And Wario could just jump around for that time and MK could just grab the ledge a lot, so we remove the time. And ICs 0-death from a grab so we ban grabs. And every character isn't as good as MK so we are only allowed to down B glitch with Kirby.

I get it. Restrictions are a slippery slope, but it's one we've followed just fine in the path.
Ban MK or don't, but we don't need to ***** about him in every thread ever.

edit: sweet MK vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4g2oUdvlRo

I'll put it this way. For all intents and purposes, Scrooging is unbeatable. It's not only powerful on its own, but it is a free extension tool for people to surpass ledge grab limits while staying perfectly safe.

I would have no problem putting restrictions on a character IF they worked, were easy to enforce, were not numerous, etc. The one solid restriction put on MK is IDC (and extending the cape period). Even this has slight problems in that his cape naturally extends when he touches the ground with it, and that you could get away with extending the cape distances if the opponent/referee isn't sure exactly how far it normally goes or how long it lasts. You can also extend it with the control stick instead of the Cstick but that's more of a minor clarification issue.

However, past this, there is NOT a single good restriction on MK. At all. Ledge Grab Limits for example are subjective and matches can be directly influenced sharply by what number you pick. You can either pick a number too high, and MK is not affected at all, or you pick a number too low and gameplay becomes painfully restricted or people get creative and find ways to bypass the LGL (AKA scrooging or air camping extensively or gliding out to the boundaries and coming back to the stage, going under the stage and using reverse shuttle loop, whatever). Another problem with them is that there is no national standard when it comes to the number you should use. Some regions have it low, some have it higher, etc. For a rule that is designed to be this important and regulate a game breaking aspect of a character (assuming you are only applying a LGL to MK himself, which... I'll get into), you should NOT have these varying and conflicting numbers used. It would be like people having different rules on how long you could extend the cape before you are DQ'd or people not being sure whether you should be allowed to EVER glide under the stage. If you come to a decision, it needs to be common and the accepted standard. When it comes to the LGL, there will never be a standard even if we the SBR throw out a recommendation out there.

Now, before someone plays the "Oh well the timer is subjective too, and stocks are subjective too, and they can have an impact on gameplay, bajsdkljalda" card, we need to realize the difference between those kind of rules. Rules like that are meant to be the ground work for competitive play. You set a standard, that most people can agree on or with or will accept, and you have it commonplace used. The idea is to have a general layout for tournament play that will allow it to function well. Doesn't have to be perfect, and will not be perfect, but that is the goal. The difference between that and something like a LGL is that you honestly don't have that many varying views or beliefs on what is the best approach/numbers to use, and that you aren't applying them as regulating rules for specific characters, or to specifically balance the game. You DO want a stock+time combination that keeps things well run and the metagame healthy as possible, but you don't institute stock+time BECAUSE of balance or regulation.

I'll put it this way: Stock+time is like the Constitution (or the idea of it). Sure, it may be subjective in what you include or how much/how little, but it was established as a framework for society to progress. LGL would be like Healthcare Reform. Something needs to be done about the current system (MK being able to do it freely), but at the same time there are strongly varying views on what needs to be done. Whatever you decide to do DOES have a huge impact on society/metagame/whatever metaphor you want to associate with it. People aren't gonna agree on 1 decision, and you can bet different states and regions will have different systems or views.

Now, scrooging. Let's say you want to limit that to help combat people beating the LGL. What do you do/what rule do you suggest? No gliding under the stage period? 2-3-multiple times and then you have to be hit or hit the opponent? Have a GUL (Glide Under Limit)? Seriously, there's no good way to say or define scrooging and try to limit it. You either come up with something stupid like MK can't ever glide under the stage, or something that probably won't affect him that much.

Eventually, it will progress to MK players learning how to air camp extensively to waste out time, and then people are gonna cry out for something like an Air to Ground Ratio Limit so that he can't spend all his time in the air trying to run out time. If you want to properly restrict MK, you are gonna have to put up with multiple unattractive rules in place against solely him. Maybe more rules than you really want. Maybe the community truly thinks the best route to take is just restricting him extensively, but I look at other fighters and I don't think I see a single instance where a serious community decided to go down this path, or at least as far as we are planning to take it.


Regardless of what you think, what is clear is that MK with no holds barred is by far clearly broken and something has to be done for the health of the game. You either have restricting him or outright banning him. Those are our only options unfortunately.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Wow...that was a truly **** post.

And I do agree MK left completely alone is broken. I just see him as a legit character with certain enforcable restrictions.

But yeah, you do explain how that doesn't necessarily work...

Honestly I just don't have the qualifications to argue with that post. Really, it ***** any thought I could come up with. GG

 

[Plairnkk]

dude me vs puffster has so many ****in views lol

 

[Tommy_G]

I say 5 passes under the stage per match. For every underpass after the 5th: the one going under the stage needs to drop that stock.

For those worried about people knocked from one side of the stage to the other while being under the stage: no one should be forced under the stage more than 5 times in a match. If you use them early to stall or mix up your recovery, then it's your fault and a risk you take.

An underpass is defined as crossing the threshold that is below the center of the stage.

 

[B!squick]

In Japan you get 1 glide under. Works for them. *shrug*

 

[DMG]

Japan does a lot of things. Like speak Japanese.

Tommy why 5? Why is 5 too powerful, but not 4 or 6? You have no good answer to that lol.

That and don't even get me started on how much scrutiny you would need to enforce a rule that says you can't pass under the middle of a stage 5 times. Where specifically is the middle (is it pixel by pixel, a general area, the true middle of the stage, whatever the referee deems is the middle)? If any part of my body like a cape or sword passes it, does it count? Will it only count if my entire body passes, if so what happens if I turn around and it looks like my body shifted past? Does it count if I go entirely past and then come back the same side? Should it count if you are knocked under/just for gliding/just for recovery?

 

[theunabletable]

Yeah it's like 1 glide under, then you have to land on the main stage, right? I know TKD has it as something like that in his Tijuana (I'm almost positive I spelled that wrong, lol) ruleset.

I don't see the big problem with doing that. I mean, yeah, limiting a character is unfortunate, but, imo, if it were to come down to it, limiting a character with easily definable and enforceable rules is an all around better solution for the community than completely banning him.

Tommy why 5? Why is 5 too powerful, but not 4 or 6? You have no good answer to that lol.

Why do we limit infinites to 300%? So what if that's what the highest handicap can be, how is the highest handicap possible relevant to how high you're allowed to use a chain grab on someone? Especially if you're not even allowed to turn on handicap and set your own handicap in tournament?

Why not 299%? Or 350%? Or 400%?

 

[DMG]

If you think that putting a rule down is always best, then I assume you would be an advocate of limiting Akuma from either jumping, using Aerial Fireball/Fireballs ever, etc. He could have stayed in the game if you made him worse through rules specifically aimed at him, but they did not do that.

As for infinites, the number is not supposed to matter. Let me clarify: the number is basically a safe pick. It's goal is to prevent people from stalling through infiniting until the timer runs out, while not depriving the person with the infinite from using it to its fullest (excluding stalling obviously). There is not much of a difference between 250 and 300% obviously, and even 350% (although I will get into why past 300 is almost certainly not necessary).

A good way to think about it is like this: From the infinites in this game, you can generally land a killing blow on even the heaviest character in the game, on almost any stage, at 200% and they assuredly die. IC's Usmash, Dedede Throw or if a Wall is present something like Dsmash, etc. Now, just to err on the safe side, add about 100% to that. Now you have 300%. This is clearly ample % for the person to work with and get the kill with the infinite. If they choose not to get a kill from the infinite, the time used up from that extra 100% is obviously not that potent when it comes to stalling purposes.

200% is the absolute minimum IMO you should aim for giving them. Past that, you don't need to give them an elaborate cushion. You want to give them some room, but not too much. 50%, 100%, something like that would probably work best. In excess of 100% does not serve the purpose of the rule IMO. Past 300% there honestly is no valid reason that is better than having it at 300% or lower. You accomplish the same thing with a lower cushion, with less room for someone to abuse it.

So yes, to be honest I would find anything from 200+ to 300 and under satisfactory. Anything in that range CLEARLY accomplishes its goal of removing the stalling aspect. The difference between this and a LGL is that there really isn't an established "range" to work with. Maybe more than 50 is too much, but what is too little? That is the hard part of figuring out, in part because of scrooging and because people have mixed feelings over how much time MK should be able to burn off the clock even if the match has been close all around. There is no accepted or even close to accepted minimum a LGL should be. If we knew almost 100% that the minimum we needed to give him was 25 for example, then having something inbetween 25 and 50 would probably be satisfactory (50 or whatever is determined to be the high end of what should be allowed). However like I said earlier, there just isn't a real range for this because of multiple factors.

 

[theunabletable]

If you think that putting a rule down is always best, then I assume you would be an advocate of limiting Akuma from either jumping, using Aerial Fireball/Fireballs ever, etc. He could have stayed in the game if you made him worse through rules specifically aimed at him, but they did not do that.

I don't play Street Fighter, nor do I know really anything about it. So, due to ignorance on the subject, I have no comment here.

As for infinites, the number is not supposed to matter. Let me clarify: the number is basically a safe pick. It's goal is to prevent people from stalling through infiniting until the timer runs out, while not depriving the person with the infinite from using it to its fullest (excluding stalling obviously). There is not much of a difference between 250 and 300% obviously, and even 350% (although I will get into why past 300 is almost certainly not necessary).

What if I want to kill with Uthrow as ICs?

200% is the absolute minimum IMO you should aim for giving them. Past that, you don't need to give them an elaborate cushion. You want to give them some room, but not too much. 50%, 100%, something like that would probably work best. In excess of 100% does not serve the purpose of the rule IMO. Past 300% there honestly is no valid reason that is better than having it at 300% or lower. You accomplish the same thing with a lower cushion, with less room for someone to abuse it.

What if my Uthrow dosen't kill at that point?

Anything in that range CLEARLY accomplishes its goal of removing the stalling aspect.

And it very well might remove my ability to get a kill off Uthrow.

If my ability to get a kill off Uthrow is removed, even though it's a completely unnecesary tactic, what is so fundamentally wrong, using the logic we used to prevent me from killing with Uthrow, with limiting MKs ability to glide under the stage more than once without touching the main area?

There is no accepted or even close to accepted minimum a LGL should be

Does it matter? If you don't use your method of planking, you won't go over 25 ledge grabs.

So, add another 10 as... errr... "cushion", and there shouldn't be any problems. Yeah my ability to do some of the beatable ledge camping is limited, but how is that any worse than limiting my ability to kill with Uthrow as ICs?

I don't play Street Fighter, but if the banning of Akuma's air fireball would've led to a far healthier meta game (I don't know if it would or not lol), then I'd say that's the best decision.

Banning something like gliding under the stage more than once without touching the main platform is an obvious, and, in general, enforceable rule. Yeah there's the possibility of some amount of time being wasted over calling TOs over to stop scrooging, but that WON'T happen. For the same reason we don't get TOs wasting time over stopping people from stalling with the IDC, or with Jiggs' rising pound in Melee. This is clearly definable (I haven't clearly defined it as much as it could be in this post, but I could if I wasn't so **** tired and lazy. The perfect example IS NOT in this post currently, so don't point out some symmantical (lolspelling?) problem with some example I gave above that isn't even as clear as it would be if I were to put it in an actual ruleset), just like the previously mentioned methods of stalling. So it's not a problem with being vague.

The existance of the rule enforces itself, just because there's a specific rule saying you're not allowed to do that. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'll elaborate.

The possibility exists, theoretically, for a TO to have to waste their time to make sure someone doesn't scrooge. Just like the EXACT SAME possibility exists for a TO to have to waste their time to make sure an ICs player isn't CGing past 300%, or so that a Jiggs in Melee doesn't rising pound stall, or so that an MK doesn't stall with the IDC (every once in a while, an MK uses the IDC in tournament, but normally no one ****ing cares. Because they didn't stall with it. Just like how if you make something such as "gliding under the stage more than once without touching the main platform", the person you're playing against won't go ape**** because you used a tactic, that, in moderation (which it would be in moderation if you only did it twice), isn't even broken to begin with).

There's the theoretical chance for someone to win a set by doing that, or for a TO to waste their time doing that, but that DOESN'T happen with almost identical rules we have currently. Hell I'd say there's a better chance for an ICs player to master in-shield SDI and **** everyone from shield grabbing everything, than to get a TO to repeatedly waste their time checking to see if someone is stalling by scrooging (which, afaik, has never happened with the IDC, IC/D3 CGs, or rising pound stall in Melee, and those are all easily definable instances, as well, so I'd say they're perfectly valid comparisons).

Is it unfortunate that we might have to either limit MKs scrooging, or ban him? Yes. But I'd say if it were a choice, coming from a point of view only looking for a healthy meta game, between limiting MKs scrooging (this only applies if this were to be something that would stop him from being bannable) and banning the character in its entirety, I'd say the former is better.

 

[Magik0722]

My way is easiest, As TO i can DQ anyone who under my own definition is planking or scrooging, my tournaments never go over 30 people so its pretty easy for me to oversee the matches, also the fear of my DQing them has always prevented it from happening.

 

[Mota]

Riveting vid OP.

31 ledge grabs by Planks MK, LGL of 35 isn't going to cut it.