Social The Suburbs of Onett - Ness Social Thread

[Earthbound360]

My condolonces to you Yink and your family. Don't worry too much about us in the meantime.

 

[PSIBoy]

Hope you feel better, and may your family member rest in peace.

Overall, nothing really happened that required your attention. Don't worry.

 

[Sir_Zedd]

Signed up for a local Tourney on Saturday and I'm going to try and limit myself to only using Ness and not fall back on my Diddy as a counter pick/crutch. Wish me luck guys/gals, I'm shooting for the semi finals!

 

[PSIBoy]

Signed up for a local Tourney on Saturday and I'm going to try and limit myself to only using Ness and not fall back on my Diddy as a counter pick/crutch. Wish me luck guys/gals, I'm shooting for the semi finals!

Good luck! But if you need to fall back on Diddy, don't force yourself not to. Unless this is for fun with no money involved. If it is for fun, then do what you want to.

 

[SageEnder]

Signed up for a local Tourney on Saturday and I'm going to try and limit myself to only using Ness and not fall back on my Diddy as a counter pick/crutch. Wish me luck guys/gals, I'm shooting for the semi finals!

Yeah good luck, and no need to stick to one character, I still only play ness because he is the only character I feel comfortable enough to play in tournament, so far and there is still i need to work on

 

[PKBeam]

Apparently the Link boards bite your head off if you even ask a simple question. Glad my mains are on boards that are nice!

that's not ENTIRELY accurate.
http://smashboards.com/threads/mental-terrorism-feat-bombs.385838/

 

[PSIBoy]

that's not ENTIRELY accurate.
http://smashboards.com/threads/mental-terrorism-feat-bombs.385838/

True. Absolutes are almost never true, my bad. At least there are some people on that forum decent enough to try and provide tips... Only to get their head bitten off by most of the people... Including a mod. If I were a mod on that forum, I would probably be infringing people so often that I would lose my title because everyone would be complaining about me abusing my power.

PK Beam, I mean no offense to you nor any buddies you have on the Link boards, but the majority of people on there in my opinion are just so... Immature, rude, and flamey. And not only some of them are getting away with it, even at least one of the mods is like that. I know you're not rude, immature, and flamey (at least in the time I've known you and as far as I am aware of), but... I can't help but feel so disgusted with their attitude when you can actually make the effort to be a decent person.

 

[PKBeam]

lol none taken, I barely know anyone on the link boards. it's scary there, this guy in the social asked to be paddled. and then someone else uploaded a picture of a paddle. With spikes.

 

[SageEnder]

how much time do you guys spend on other boards

 

[PKBeam]

barely any

 

[Noa.]

So on for glory they keep track of what moves you use to KO opponents which is awesome. And because I only use ness on for glory all of my stats apply to him. This is the amount for 73 matches.

1 Ko standard attack
0 ko strong attack
4 ko smash attacks
42 ko air attacks
30 ko special moves
0 ko meteor smashes
44 ko throws
0 ko floor attacks
0 ko edge attacks
9 ko other

So bthrow is the source of most of my killing, followed by kills with uair, Bair, and nair. Then comes kills with pkt2 and pk Thunder gimps. I never use pk flash. 4 kos from hard reads on smashes. And I apparently once killed someone with jab? I have no idea what the other kos are. Any ideas?

 

[SageEnder]

So bthrow is the source of most of my killing, followed by kills with uair, Bair, and nair. Then comes kills with pkt2 and pk Thunder gimps. I never use pk flash. 4 kos from hard reads on smashes. And I apparently once killed someone with jab? I have no idea what the other kos are. Any ideas?

Reflects,
probably some gordos hit back by nair

 

[TechPowah]

Oh gosh, I just discovered Bound Together! All of it is masterful, of course, but the electronic mixes are just SUBLIME~!

Personal favorites are Keep It Short and the EarthBound_WIP9 <Onett Mix>.

 

[Sir_Zedd]

Oh gosh, I just discovered Bound Together! All of it is masterful, of course, but the electronic mixes are just SUBLIME~!

Personal favorites are Keep It Short and the EarthBound_WIP9 <Onett Mix>.

Off to youtube I go!

 

[TechPowah]

No need, link is here <it's an entire fan album for free, DL it!>

http://www.wushuplaya.com/boundtogether/

 

[PKBeam]

I never use pk flash.

you should, especially on FG.

 

[Earthbound360]

Hahah Draconoa, that's cool stuff. I wanna check mine out too now, I'm curious.

0 meteor smashes though, dang Ness' dair is some booty now >.<
You've gotten more KOs with his jab lol

 

[PKBeam]

out of 1831 FG matches,
I KO'd 11 with standard but that's because I use Link a lot and his tilts :|
693 special kills tho. most are Flash, PKT2 and Villager's Tree

 

[Noa.]

Hahah Draconoa, that's cool stuff. I wanna check mine out too now, I'm curious.

0 meteor smashes though, dang Ness' dair is some booty now >.<
You've gotten more KOs with his jab lol

It's like upsetting how useless dair is. It's ny far our worst move. I never use it. Ever. It's so hard to land. Almost impossible to land. And when you do land it, you land the sour spot. And when you do sweet spot it once in a blue moon, it doesn't kill because it has awful knockback.

And pk flash is nigh on useless as well.

Shame we have basically two useless moves.

If I want to use other characters on for glory I'll use a different tag. It's awesome that you can separate stats by which tag you were using.

 

[PKBeam]

does anyone use Utilt or Ftilt?

And pk flash is nigh on useless as well.

yeah this is a shame.
the only time I land it is when people run in to try and punish and end up trading a dash attack for a fully charged flash.

Dair hasn't actually changed much from brawl but they cut the sweetspot from 20-23 to just 20 and yeah, it's a lot weaker. and they got rid of the semispike sourspot as well.

 

[Earthbound360]

Dair changed a LOT from Brawl actually.

The spike hitbox was everywhere, not just on a sparkle
The end lag was increased
Knockback was decreased
Sourspot knockback was SEVERELY nerfed (like, you could KO with the sourspot in Brawl)
Range... may have been slightly buffed, but it doesn't even anything out

Dair or dtilt is Ness' worst move. PK Flash is bad, but it's not quite **** tier like dtilt and dair.

 

[Noa.]

I actually use ftilt very often. It's good in situations where you want to punish your opponent for when they whiff an attack that has low ending lag. You don't have enough time to dash grab or dash attack. Sh Nair is out of range, jab is out of range, grab is out of range. Pk fire and fsmash are too slow. But ftilt is just fast enough and has just enough range to hit. I will say these situations are pretty rare but I'm finding them more and more. Ftilt has a purpose as being the fastest way to get a hitbox outside of jab/nair/grab range. I would say I use it just as much as Usmash or dsmash. It's certainly more useful than utilt and dtilt.

I kind of wanna go through Ness's moveset and rate them on how vital and useful they are. On a four or five star scale. Many character guides used to do that in brawl days and it's useful to guide new players in which moves should be used a lot and which should be saved for certain situations.

 

[PKBeam]

i was talking in terms of frame data, but yeah you're right.
Dair's ending lag and landing lag in Brawl and Smash 4 is about the same but its autocancel range at the end was increased by 21 frames, which sucked.

 

[Earthbound360]

I actually use ftilt very often. It's good in situations where you want to punish your opponent for when they whiff an attack that has low ending lag. You don't have enough time to dash grab or dash attack. Sh Nair is out of range, jab is out of range, grab is out of range. Pk fire and fsmash are too slow. But ftilt is just fast enough and has just enough range to hit. I will say these situations are pretty rare but I'm finding them more and more. Ftilt has a purpose as being the fastest way to get a hitbox outside of jab/nair/grab range. I would say I use it just as much as Usmash or dsmash. It's certainly more useful than utilt and dtilt.

I kind of wanna go through Ness's moveset and rate them on how vital and useful they are. On a four or five star scale. Many character guides used to do that in brawl days and it's useful to guide new players in which moves should be used a lot and which should be saved for certain situations.

Just off the top of my head and even more more importantly, IMO...

Jab - 3/5
Ftilt - 2/5
Dtilt - 0/5
Utilt - 2/5

Fsmash - 1.5/5
Dsmash - 3/5
Usmash - 2/5
Dash Attack - 4/5

Fthrow - 4/5
Dthrow - 5/5
Bthrow - 10 million/5
Uthrow - 4/5

Nair - 4.5/5
Fair - 4.5/5
Dair - 0/5
Bair - 3.5/5
Uair - 5/5

Flash - 1/5
Fire - 3/5
Thunder - 5/5
Magnet - 2.5/5

Agree or disagree as you will. I'm actually interested in hearing people's opinions on this.

 

[PKBeam]

sounds about right.
also grab = 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999/5

 

[Noa.]

This is mine then. I prefer a four star rating myself. Easier to rate that way.

Four stars means that it's basically impossible to do well without using this move a lot in all your matches.

Three stars means that you will probably be using this move a lot and it's quite great, but sometimes you won't need it.

Two stars means that these moves are pretty niche and used for when you get a good read on an opponent. You probably won't use most of these moves at all and it comes down to personal preference as to which ones you gravitate towards.

One star moves are useless.


Jab - 3/4
Ftilt - 2/4
Dtilt - 1/4
Utilt - 2/4

Fsmash - 2/4
Dsmash - 2/4
Usmash - 2/4
Dash Attack - 3/4

Fthrow - 3/4
Dthrow - 4/4
Bthrow - 120/4
Uthrow - 3/4

Nair - 4/4
Fair - 4/4
Dair - 1/4
Bair - 3/4
Uair - 4/4

Flash - 1/4
Fire - 3/4
Thunder - 4/4
Magnet - 1/4 or 2/4 depending on matchup.

Now to reorganize the list by ratings.

4/4
Dthrow
Bthrow
Nair
Fair
Uair
Thunder

3/4
Jab
Dash attack
Fthrow
U throw
Bair
Fire

2/4
Ftilt
Utilt
Fsmash
Usmash
Dsmash
Magnet

1/4
Dtilt
Dair
Flash

Tier list is not in order within tiers. Lol

@ Earthbound360 and I agree basically wholeheartedly. He used a lot of .5s though hahaha. I suppose dsmash might be the one in biggest disagreement. But how different is 2/4 to 3/5? Meh lol

 

[Tikao]

I'll try one of these too

Jab - 3/5
Ftilt - 1,5/5
Dtilt - 0,5/5
Utilt - 2/5

Fsmash - 2,5/5
Dsmash - 2/5
Usmash - 2/5
Dash Attack - 3,5/5

Grab - 5/5
Fthrow - 3,5/5
Dthrow - 5/5
Bthrow - 6/5
Uthrow - 3/5

Nair - 5/5
Fair - 4.5/5
Dair - -1/5
Bair - 3.5/5
Uair - 6/5

Flash - 0,5/5
Fire - 3/5
Thunder - 5/5
Magnet - 2.5/5

Utaunt - OK

fsmash is kinda high because of the reflection hitbox

 

[SageEnder]

This is mine then. I prefer a four star rating myself. Easier to rate that way.

Four stars means that it's basically impossible to do well without using this move a lot in all your matches.

Three stars means that you will probably be using this move a lot and it's quite great, but sometimes you won't need it.

Two stars means that these moves are pretty niche and used for when you get a good read on an opponent. You probably won't use most of these moves at all and it comes down to personal preference as to which ones you gravitate towards.

One star moves are useless.


Jab - 3/4
Ftilt - 2/4
Dtilt - 1/4
Utilt - 2/4

Fsmash - 2/4
Dsmash - 2/4
Usmash - 2/4
Dash Attack - 3/4

Fthrow - 3/4
Dthrow - 4/4
Bthrow - 120/4
Uthrow - 3/4

Nair - 4/4
Fair - 4/4
Dair - 1/4
Bair - 3/4
Uair - 4/4

Flash - 1/4
Fire - 3/4
Thunder - 4/4
Magnet - 1/4 or 2/4 depending on matchup.

Now to reorganize the list by ratings.

4/4
Dthrow
Bthrow
Nair
Fair
Uair
Thunder

3/4
Jab
Dash attack
Fthrow
U throw
Bair
Fire

2/4
Ftilt
Utilt
Fsmash
Usmash
Dsmash
Magnet

1/4
Dtilt
Dair
Flash

Tier list is not in order within tiers. Lol

@ Earthbound360 and I agree basically wholeheartedly. He used a lot of .5s though hahaha. I suppose dsmash might be the one in biggest disagreement. But how different is 2/4 to 3/5? Meh lol

I think this is the list I agree with most, because f smash is usable for reflects and pivot reads so it is better than 1.5/5, However you said it yourself that you are using f-tilt more, and I agree it is a more ranged jab, and I think pivot f-tilt has uses as a mix up when you are being approached alot. for that reason I believe that it should be 3/4 just like jab.

I also think dair should be 2/4, because of the tech you can use with it, I think the FH pk fire dair cancel gives it uses and instead of short hop empty jumps I sometimes do short hop dair cancels, it baits alot of reactions because it plays the sound of the dair

My biggest disagreement though is with the throws,
I love ness's throws but IMO we are givng some throws too high a rank, I feel like f-throw and up throw should be 3/4 because b-throw and d-throw are both so strong that they over power them as options, making them both generally situational comparatively, and as much as I love b-throw as much as the next Ness player, and it is broken, I generally use it only once maybe per enemy stock. it is for sure a 4/4, but I dont think it desverses the crazy number, which i think should go to d-throw.

D-throw is used 80% of grabs, at least in my games, and every 0- death has a minimum of 1 d-throw grab, not really b-throw grabs so I say d-throw should be 69/4

 

[Earthbound360]

I use .5s to differentiate between moves based on relevance. Like, we all know nair, fair, and uair are some of Ness' best moves, but I think I like uair just a tiny bit more than the former two (although reconsidering, I might make fair a 5 too).

And just because you don't use a move as often, doesn't make it any less amazing. In fact, you really should only use bthrow every now and then to not scale it, as is the same way with most KO moves. It doesn't make them any less valuable than combo moves, which are used much more often. Dthrow is nice, but certain fall speeds and weights make it impossible to combo out of, and it does the lowest damage out of all of our throws, stunting its usefulness in certain situations.

As for moves that you "use to not hit with," like dair to PKFLC or bat to reflect, I still only use those effects every so often. It's not enough to save those moves from mediocrity IMO.

Also, fthrow and uthrow are still great throws. They do a lot of damage for throws, and have a lot of set knockback. You use them when you can't KO with bthrow or combo with dtrhow (at percents like 60+). But which one you use is up to preference. Do you prefer edgeguarding for extra damage? Fthrow. Do you prefer juggling for extra damage? Uthrow. I'm more of an edgeguard guy myself.

 

[Tikao]

i don't think uthrow is the best tbh, simply because of Ness' other moves

bthrow for killing and dthow for combos/more damage are obvious
fthrow for huge base kb, gaining momentum and getting someone of the stage
and uthrow for dealing more initial damage than dthrow and the possibility to juggle someone

so uthrow is only usefull :

if dthrow stops to combo
if bthrow doesn't kill
if you're not near the edge of the direction you're facing (which also means bthrow is more likely to kill if you got enough percentages)

so while uthrow is not a bad throw itself, it is simply outclassed by his other throws in most situations imo

 

[SageEnder]

ok before I say anything I was looking at dracon set up of
1 is useless,
2 is sometimes useful/not always necessary
3 is a good move that will be used in a number of situations and
4 is a move that is pivotal to Ness success, and without it will be stunted

I use .5s to differentiate between moves based on relevance. Like, we all know nair, fair, and uair are some of Ness' best moves, but I think I like uair just a tiny bit more than the former two (although reconsidering, I might make fair a 5 too).

I have fair, nair, and uair as 4 and I agree with you uair, is my favorite and the most satisfying.
one of my favorite things to do is when someone gets back on the stage from the ledge is run off and do a rising uair, I get so many kills with that

And just because you don't use a move as often, doesn't make it any less amazing. In fact, you really should only use bthrow every now and then to not scale it, as is the same way with most KO moves. It doesn't make them any less valuable than combo moves, which are used much more often. Dthrow is nice, but certain fall speeds and weights make it impossible to combo out of, and it does the lowest damage out of all of our throws, stunting its usefulness in certain situations

Also, fthrow and uthrow are still great throws. They do a lot of damage for throws, and have a lot of set knockback. You use them when you can't KO with bthrow or combo with dtrhow (at percents like 60+). But which one you use is up to preference. Do you prefer edgeguarding for extra damage? Fthrow. Do you prefer juggling for extra damage? Uthrow. I'm more of an edgeguard guy myself.

I agree d-throw isnt always the best, but I am saying it is generally the option we will use the most often, we are talking about the same thing being the viabilty of the move not how amazing it is(they are almost synonymous), and I have b-throw as a 4/4 so it is pivotal, and i put f-throw and u-throw as 3 which is very useful but not as commonly used the as being key word, and trust me if i get a grab and they are towards the ledge even at 50% i will use f-throw.
but there are players who never use the move, and I have it as 3/4 and you have it 4/5 so i think we are in agreement, i think i said that cuz i saw someone who had all throws as equal. i was more talking about how everyone had b-throw as like 1000000000/4.

you did lose me on what you were saying about the scaling, the system is stale-ing and the move does the most damage when it hasnt been used, using it sparingly has no effect on it from what i understand, it just means it will very slightly be staled, or fresh again when you want to kill, and actually stale-ing helps down throw becuase it lowers knock back and allows you to combo at higher percents.

As for moves that you "use to not hit with," like dair to PKFLC or bat to reflect, I still only use those effects every so often. It's not enough to save those moves from mediocrity IMO.

I agree I said those 2 moves should be 2/4, which is extremely situational, which you described situations, you have dair at 0/5 which is you will never use it, and I think f smash is slghtly more useful than 1.5 of 5 but that can be playstyle, but I have alot of respect for you and what you have posted, I just think i was misunderstanding you

 

[Earthbound360]

The 0/5s don't actually mean I never EVER use them. There's not a single move in Ness' set not a single move I literally NEVER use, but it's 0/5 to state that I think it's one of Ness' worst moves. Again, it's all just relevance for me.

What I meant on the throws is that the more you use bthrow, the weaker it gets. That's why it's a GOOD thing you don't use it more than once per stock.

Fsmash is just a me thing. I really REALLY don't like it, but the fact that I think it's more useful than dtilt and dair (and just a teensy bit more than Flash) gives it a 1.5. But to be brutally honest, I put it somewhere in the bottom 5 of all fsmashes in this game :\

And I appreciate the discussion dude. I did ask for people's opinions after all. I just like seeing what people think of his moves and such. Like I said, anyone is free to agree or disagree with me as they please.

 

[Noa.]

I also think dair should be 2/4, because of the tech you can use with it, I think the FH pk fire dair cancel gives it uses and instead of short hop empty jumps I sometimes do short hop dair cancels, it baits alot of reactions because it plays the sound of the dair

I actually never use full hop pk fire dair cancel technique. In my mind it's telegraphed so easily. The only options Ness has from a from a fullhop straight up is a pkfire and I suppose pk thunder. I just feel like if an opponent catches on they can just shield it on reaction because if I do a full hop while they're so far away the only thing I could possibly be doing is pk fire.

But other players I'm sure find it useful. And I would say it's a useful tech. I call the moves useless but they're arent really useless. Just have incredibly niche uses in that the amount of situations where you need to use them you can count on one hand. In my mind dair is only useful for the water phases on some stages and canceling landing lag.

I use .5s to differentiate between moves based on relevance. Like, we all know nair, fair, and uair are some of Ness' best moves, but I think I like uair just a tiny bit more than the former two (although reconsidering, I might make fair a 5 too).

And just because you don't use a move as often, doesn't make it any less amazing. In fact, you really should only use bthrow every now and then to not scale it, as is the same way with most KO moves. It doesn't make them any less valuable than combo moves, which are used much more often. Dthrow is nice, but certain fall speeds and weights make it impossible to combo out of, and it does the lowest damage out of all of our throws, stunting its usefulness in certain situations.

As for moves that you "use to not hit with," like dair to PKFLC or bat to reflect, I still only use those effects every so often. It's not enough to save those moves from mediocrity IMO.

Also, fthrow and uthrow are still great throws. They do a lot of damage for throws, and have a lot of set knockback. You use them when you can't KO with bthrow or combo with dtrhow (at percents like 60+). But which one you use is up to preference. Do you prefer edgeguarding for extra damage? Fthrow. Do you prefer juggling for extra damage? Uthrow. I'm more of an edgeguard guy myself.

My favorite aerial is actually nair. Nair fair and uair are so amazing and are up there for our best moves in my mind. Uair is our best kill move that isn't bthrow, and it comes out fast, beats everything in the world. Uair is janky ass kinda broken and should probabaly be nerfed honestly. It probably is our best aerial. But nair and fair are no slouches either and are aaaallmooost just as good. Fair is one of two moves that we actually have a lot of range and disjointed hitboxes on. The other being dash attack. Fair is just our beautiful combo machine, and beats most other aerials in the air because it's fast, large, and disjointed. When I predict that my opponent is going to jump into the air either to approach or react to my approach, I just short hop fair cause it's so amazing.

Nair is my bae though. I love nair so much. It's useful in every situation imaginable. It's always a good option in every situation, even if it's usually not the best one. Nair is our best OoS option because shield grabbing is very difficult with our pitiful range. I use Nair OoS all the time. If my opponents are spotdodging, sh nair will punish that. I also use it to punish when my opponents whiff attacks. And nair is a great approach option, especially against sheik. Without nair I think the sheik matchup would be -2. It's also a great edgeguard tool, and gets me the occasional KO. And combos with uair and itself haha.

I agree with everything you say though. I'm just here in solidarity with you.

 

[SageEnder]

I actually never use full hop pk fire dair cancel technique. In my mind it's telegraphed so easily. The only options Ness has from a from a fullhop straight up is a pkfire and I suppose pk thunder. I just feel like if an opponent catches on they can just shield it on reaction because if I do a full hop while they're so far away the only thing I could possibly be doing is pk fire.

But other players I'm sure find it useful. And I would say it's a useful tech. I call the moves useless but they're arent really useless. Just have incredibly niche uses in that the amount of situations where you need to use them you can count on one hand. In my mind dair is only useful for the water phases on some stages and canceling landing lag.

I think the forward version of it is 2 predictable, but doing it as you retreat, when they run at you you run away fh pkfire cancel backwards, its like pivot pkfire but also covers air approaches, I think that is the best use for it or possibly against projectile spammers

Nair is my bae though. I love nair so much. It's useful in every situation imaginable. It's always a good option in every situation, even if it's usually not the best one. Nair is our best OoS option because shield grabbing is very difficult with our pitiful range. I use Nair OoS all the time. If my opponents are spotdodging, sh nair will punish that. I also use it to punish when my opponents whiff attacks. And nair is a great approach option, especially against sheik. Without nair I think the sheik matchup would be -2. It's also a great edgeguard tool, and gets me the occasional KO. And combos with uair and itself haha.

The use for nair that I absolutely love is when someone misses a tech I will short hop over them wait for them to get up attack. When inviciblity disappears, come down with a nair, I once got someone like 3 times in a row with it because he continually missed the tech

 

[Earthbound360]

I don't think uair is broken good, just... really really really good lol. It doesn't have a lot of range, and since it's Ness' head, you're not really safe just throwing it out at certain attacks. Dat KO power tho...

Nair and fair are hard for me to judge. They're both really, really good. Nair is a combo breaker, edgeguard tool, and overall swifter (you can do 2 in 1 short hop). But you use fair SO much when you play Ness that you start to not even realize it. Idk, they're both awesome.

 

[Noa.]

I think the forward version of it is 2 predictable, but doing it as you retreat, when they run at you you run away fh pkfire cancel backwards, its like pivot pkfire but also covers air approaches, I think that is the best use for it or possibly against projectile spammers




The use for nair that I absolutely love is when someone misses a tech I will short hop over them wait for them to get up attack. When inviciblity disappears, come down with a nair, I once got someone like 3 times in a row with it because he continually missed the tech

I haven't considered using the full hop pk Fire while retreating. Seems interesting I'll try it.

Rating uair, fair, and Nair is like picking your favorite from cake, brownies, and ice cream.

Dair, dtilt and pk flash is like having to eat dirt, sticks, or paper.

I'm surprised that you rated usmash lower than dsmash though E360. You were going on about Usmash for a while haha. I think Usmash is useful in more situations than dsmash and I ise it more often, but when I do land dsmash the reward is often greater and it's more satisfying.

 

[Earthbound360]

I haven't considered using the full hop pk Fire while retreating. Seems interesting I'll try it.

Rating uair, fair, and Nair is like picking your favorite from cake, brownies, and ice cream.

Dair, dtilt and pk flash is like having to eat dirt, sticks, or paper.

I'm surprised that you rated usmash lower than dsmash though E360. You were going on about Usmash for a while haha. I think Usmash is useful in more situations than dsmash and I ise it more often, but when I do land dsmash the reward is often greater and it's more satisfying.

You could also try B-sticking it. It's more safe than a forward momentum PKF (still not 100% safe though).

I just wanted to mention that it had its uses, and that they werent as far and few as many people said. I still think it's a good move, but is it comparable to Ness' other amazing tools? Not a chance =
That, and I'm still in love with dsmash for some reason.

 

[SageEnder]

What are the best scenario s for u smash I feEl short hop u air is better I'm most scenario s

 

[Noa.]

I have most success with usmash punishing people when they gry to get up from the ledge, reading a spotdodge, or punishing someone for landing with an airdodge. Nair and uair can usually work in these situations as well but there are advantages to using usmash instead. Nair is usually stale for me, and since I always charge usmash in these situations it outdamages it easily. With some charge usmash also outdamages uair, and it leaves uair fresher so that it's easier to use it for the kill.

 

[PKBeam]

usmash comes out waaaayyyyyyy faster than SH Uair