The Southern Ontario Power Rankings - 31/07/14 Update

[Tin Man]

srtm i am reporting you for not playing brawl. please leave before i take anymore drastic measures for your delinquent behaviour.

The 5th Best Bowser in North America has spoken

 

[Supreme Dirt]

He's still Bowser though.

Though imo Bowser is ridiculously underrated. Should be mid-tier imo.

 

[cMeDu]

Bowser mid tier? He's not ike.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Pikachu top tier? He's not falco.

 

[cMeDu]

Pikachu is legit, and his tourney results show that he's pretty viable.
Bowser on the other hand?

 

[Iliad]

Pikachu is not legit. Just because ESAM is good with him does not make the character legit. That's like saying because San is mad good with Ike, that Ike should be higher tier, which is nonsense.

As for bowser? He's not low tier. He's extremely heavy and his killing power are at the top echelon within the game, as well, he's got a lot more safe options than people give him credit. Do I beat bowser? More often than not. But I have to be playing at my absolute A game to do so. One slip up, and he can punish you with any of his tilts which have supremely good range and come out in quick frames.

What does pikachu have that competes beyond the gay little CG on Fox and his QAC?

 

[Tin Man]

Pikachu has great matchups. one of the only 3 characters that goes even with MK.

 

[cMeDu]

Pikachu is extremely difficult to gimp, has chaingrabs on metaknight and more importantly: falco, skull bash completely momentum cancels, extremely mobile.

That being said, it's kind of difficult to kill with pikachu.
3 moves, thunder, fsmash, usmash.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Pikachu has great matchups. one of the only 3 characters that goes even with MK.

MUs are irrelevant if a character is underrated, such as in Bowser's case. Also the BBR MU chart is entirely irrelevant unless they release information on why these MUs are like that, taking these things as absolute law is flat-out ********.


Also, cMeDu, you're not really getting kills with FSmash as Pikachu unless your opponent is a ******** (and dead) gorilla, sweetspot is right next to Pikachu, the tip is laughable.

CGs are legitimate, though. Also gay. But legitimate. Not debating whether Pikachu is high tier, Pikachu is at least high tier. Was just making a point that just because Bowser is not Ike does not mean he isn't potentially mid-tier.

There are what... 8 or so serious Bowser mains in NA? It's awful, nobody bothers maining mid-to-low tier characters because, of course, tier lists are the be-all and end-all of everything.

Prediction: Snake drops a great deal on the next tier list.

 

[fUddO]

ESAM has great matchups. one of the only 3 characters that goes even with MK.

Fixed. Most of the other Pikachus think it's more like 40-60.

 

[AvariceX]

Pikachu is pretty damn legit

Thunderjolt is one of the best projectiles in the game and amazing for controlling space, and works as an edgeguarding tool. Intelligent QAC'ing (ie: not randomly spamming it around with the same patterns over and over like me) gives him unmatched maneuverability, his tilts are all effective and fast, and I still lmao every time I pikaslide into free fsmash for a KO and the opponent doesn't know what happened (seriously how do so many people still not know about this when it's so amazing?). He has one of the best recoveries in the game, and his only real problems are slightly below average kill power and poor range, both of which can be dealt with through AT's and intelligent play.

Also I don't think people realize how many characters Pika can dthrow > uair > dj footstool > QA > jab lock > kill guaranteed (just takes good execution).

 

[Tin Man]

If Pikachu is bad, who'd replace his position on the tier list. I honestly can't see DDD being better than him or anyone lower than him for that matter. The Tier list becomes more and more consistent as time comes.

Dirt, remember what Swordgard said to you in the SSS thread about matchups?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Considering MK mains dropped their opinions of how much their character ***** others, and said so in the MU thread, as far as I'm concerned the entire MU chart is flawed.

I also place little to no faith in the BBR's ability to discuss MUs, stages, or rulesets.

 

[Tin Man]

If you choose to ignore them then its up to you, but the facts of the game still remain the same. Under the current given ruleset, pikachu is a high tier character for excellent reasons.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I choose to ignore their MU ratios because they are irrelevant from a player standpoint. I don't care if I beat/lose to X character, I want to know why. If I beat them, I want to know how best to take advantage of whatever weaknesses they may have, and if I lose to them, I want to know how to avoid whatever it is they have that beats me. Saying, for example, Sheik vs. Fox is +3 Sheik's advantage is worthless, unless you know that it's because at 30% Sheik can FTilt lock Fox up to 100+% directly into a sweetspot USmash which kills. If you don't know this, the MU might seem much, much more even. People might go for the FTilt lock at %s below 30, which allows Fox to DI down, PS the next one and USmash OoS. Also Fox's lack of range doesn't help things.

Also, yes, I agree with you, Pikachu is a good character. But Pikachu does NOT go even with MK. It's only a slight disadvantage, but it's NOT even.

 

[Tin Man]

Who are u to say other wise about pikachu mk? U don't main either character. Give me reason's why, much like ur reason for ignoring the bbr matchup thread.

Also, It seems quite futile. That does not ruin the validity of the matchup chart. Try asking BBR members on the specific boards why ratio's are the way they are...

 

[LooftWaffles]

Lol at people listing Pika's killmoves and not mentioning Nair.


Also what ceX said about pikasliding is sooooooo true. Bait the roll with dtilt at kill % and watch them facepalm, its amazing.

 

[AvariceX]

For the record I don't think Pika vs MK is even either, but it's no worse than like 45:55, and Pika is still high tier. If MK plays that matchup the way most characters fight Falco (let him hit you with things other than grabs until ~50% so you can't be CG'ed to death) it gets pretty hard for Pika to actually finish MK.

 

[Cruxis]

im pretty sure that no character goes even with MK. the very best would be 45-55.

unless its dittos

 

[LooftWaffles]

im pretty sure that no character goes even with MK. the very best would be 45-55.

unless its dittos

Agreed, but the longer the game has been out the more characters matchups with MK even out.

Possible 45-55s:

Falco
Pika
Fox
Diddy
Marth imo <- pretty much asking to get flamed, but its actually a fairly even matchup

 

[cMeDu]

Ehhhhhh.....
It's FAIRLY even, but pretty much in mk's favour on cps. Unless you're iliad and you take them to cruise lol...

 

[Tin Man]

45-55 is even. But using increments of 5 just creates a 21 tier scale where like half the ratios aren't even practical (85-15 and 90:10 No one asks what the difference is really lol). Now dittoes are the only truly even matchup you are going to get for any character, but Pikachu, Diddy, and Falco have the best Tools to fight MK. Stages are involved yes, but I'm not sure if they are taken into consideration for a matchup. Stages do change the ratio. MK vs Falco on Brinstar =/= MK vs Falco on FD. In any case, its a representation of a characters chance of victory vs another. Its been decided that these 3 characters have the tools comparable to the MK ditto. Comparing matchups to others is another important thing to differentiate the ratios.

 

[Gichan]

Alright so it looks like we're going to have a BEAST WARS THEME!

Results are as follows:

Kingdom Hearts 1

Kong Family 1

Sonic 1

Digimon 2

Beast Wars 4

Dragon Ball Z 1

Yu-Gi-Oh! *3

Starcraft 2

Undergrads 2

Sports Cars 1

Gundam Wing 1

Pokemon 1

Super Street Fighter 4 1


YGO and Beast wars would have atually been tied, Han voted for YGO to my account and not GTA Smash Co. Fail han, fail lol.

Now for those disappointed with the results remember that a theme is not permanent, it will change in the future. It may be for a long while or simply 3 months, who knows we'll determine that later. But for now, look forward to a Beast Wars theme on next update.

 

[Cruxis]

45-55 is even.

wat. no its not, its slightly 55's favor lol..


also i would say that snake vs mk could be a 45-55. well on the ground at least. in the air, its like 80-20 mk's favor lol.

 

[AvariceX]

YYYYEEEESSSS Beast Wars. Only question is Optimus Primal or Dinobot #1?



or Megatron?

 

[Patches]

Should be rattrap.

 

[Tin Man]

wat. no its not, its slightly 55's favor lol..


also i would say that snake vs mk could be a 45-55. well on the ground at least. in the air, its like 80-20 mk's favor lol.

the difference between 55 and 50 is far too insignificant. Snake would be 60-40 overall against MK.

 

[LooftWaffles]

the difference between 55 and 50 is far too insignificant. Snake would be 60-40 overall against MK.

No, they are 2 completely different ratios.

50-50 = dead even

55-45 = Almost even, with one aspect of gameplay that can swing the match in someones favor. ex Marth-MK is almost even, but its MK's offstage game that makes it 55-45

 

[cMeDu]

Actually I'm pretty sure it's GSL....
Among other things.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Actually I'm pretty sure it's GSL....
Among other things.

Kind of, but not really.


GSL does the same thing for MK that DS does for Marth. Its a moot point, neither character can safely approach lol.



Personally its MK's dash grab that messes me up the most

 

[cMeDu]

I would have to say that's untrue, because DS is extremely punishable on block whereas it's much harder to punish a whiffed GSL
Also, we have bajillions of invincibility frames.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

dibs on waspinator?!

 

[LooftWaffles]

I would have to say that's untrue, because DS is extremely punishable on block whereas it's much harder to punish a whiffed GSL
Also, we have bajillions of invincibility frames.

DS may be more severely punishable, but its not like GSL is even remotely safe on block.

FHUair tippers OoS, we can chase your backside that doesnt have a hitbox into a grab or db.


I dont deny that DS is hella punishable, but the moves do serve almost identical purposes in the MU. They nullify committed aerial approaches without much effort and punish bad spacing

 

[cMeDu]

What makes the mu closer to even is marth's releases on mk, it's definitely not his DS, which is hella useful i admit at breaking nado and ****** glide.

My belief. I really don't think marth uses DS to beat out mk's approaches, ESPECIALLY since the reward is a lot less than the risk imo.

Au contraire, mk can throw out GSL a lot more....

 

[LooftWaffles]

What makes the mu closer to even is marth's releases on mk, it's definitely not his DS, which is hella useful i admit at breaking nado and ****** glide.

My belief. I really don't think marth uses DS to beat out mk's approaches, ESPECIALLY since the reward is a lot less than the risk imo.

Au contraire, mk can throw out GSL a lot more....

Couldnt agree more, Grabs are the dealbreaker. Took me like a week to learn all the releases and the matchups has changed incredibly just from the way I approach it mentally.


Also, I only advocate using DS against an aerial MK. Dashes are beaten by pivot grab and tilts are beaten by shield.

 

[Cruxis]

wtf is GSL? isnt that on jersey shore

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Let's count MK's invincibility frames. Except for Rolls and spotdodge and spawn and air-dodge, those don't count.

Let's see.

3 frames on shuttle loop.

Against some characters might as well count Nado as invincibility (though there are only 3 or so characters with no options, even Ganon can hit MK out of Nado).

Lots from Dimensional Cape.

...
...

Actually, I think that's it.

 

[Tin Man]

wtf is GSL? isnt that on jersey shore

Grounded Shuttle Loop bro.

 

[Toronto Joe]

in a perfect world mk is broken, but translating theory to in game results is like drawing shiet from a hat, theres always gaps and weaknesses in players to exploit regardless of charatcers, thats just my opinion though *o*

 

[.decoy]

...aaahahaha how it that like drawing shiet from a hat?
by the way joe we will be reunited soon. fear not.