• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Sonic 'Self improvement' thread, plus your questions answered! FAQ

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
The lag was silly haha. I remember star KOing you with a fair at a fairly moderate percent lol.
Meh, no one really plays their best online. It's the only practice I get nowadays though >_>
And I'm just pissed because I can't fight Yoshi's XD
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
Pivot grabs. They suck.
I also find that Yoshi totally outspeeds me up close (maybe I'm just using the wrong moves at the wrong times, but dtilt, dsmash, that kinda thing always seem to hit me before I can retaliate o_0) You can't juggle him either, which is where I usually excel. Infact, fighting him in the air completely sucks lol.
Don't get me wrong, I was beating the guy like 50:50, maybe it was just because of lag-fi, but I dunno.
I'm a ***** for getting grabbed because I'm really campy/defensy and shield too much, which doesn't help.
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
That was a big issue too actually. I could kill him by pretty conventional means quite easy though., but not til quite a high percent. Yoshi wasn't killing Sonic at early percents either, mind. I was usually alive for like 160%+~.
I've only played two Yoshi's ever though, so inexperience is gonna come into it too. And the first one I played sucked.

Edit : Yeah, I did actually ASC quite a lot. If I started cancelling it a lot, I'd just get grabbed right off the floor, so I'd often just follow through with the attack. It probably is the best way to rack up damage actually. I mean, with his grab range, you can't really space him on the gound.
 

Greenstreet

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
2,965
Yoshi is a matter of playing it safe then going Uber-aggressive once momentum is in your favour...
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
if it did, and you missed the U-smash (either to Yoshi running a bit further, or you mistiming), Yoshi's pivot grab has less ending lag than you'd think, so he could probably attack you already.

Also, Yoshi U-smash > direct ASC.
Yoshi RPG (retreating pivot grab- lol) > direct ASC

eggs > aerials
 

Phoenix_Dark

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
1,081
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
NNID
Phoenix2337
3DS FC
1289-8343-1385
I think it's only the beginning of N-air. I've used it to go through his DJ quite a few times. I think F-air can beat it too, but I'm not positive on that. I haven't played against a Yoshi in forever. Well, I'm off to work :(
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
maybe he was trying to start an attack and then you hit him out of it `.`;

iono, I won't be able to try for a while.
 

Boxob

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
2,101
Location
Long Island NY.
maybe he was trying to start an attack and then you hit him out of it `.`;

iono, I won't be able to try for a while.
This, maybe.

I'm pretty sure the DJarmor is super armor frames, Nair going through it would make no sense.

:093:
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
You can hit Yoshi out with your Nair, Bair and Dair.
Uair and Fair don't hit strong enough.
It also depends on WHEN you've hit him because at higher percents, his DJ armor is more prone to break.
meanwhile if you smack him at 0% with a fully charged Fsmash he'll go through it like nothing happened.


@boxob: it isn't super armor at all. Its dictated by the amount of damage Yoshi has taken so the higher the damage, the easier it is to break. you can break his DJ with Ike's Fsmash at 0% at all points of the jump.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
waaaiit- so it's based on knockback as opposed to damage (eg Snake)?
 

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
^^ hummm, that would make sense, for all heavy-armor....

Wait, what of Snake's moves (cypher?) can be broken by knockback not damage? (I thought cypher was 7%?)

I'd really like to see the Yoshi DJ formula, I might have to do some experiments of my own.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Can Yoshi be grabbed out of his DJ?
Yes, but it's about the same as trying to grab Sonic out of his spring, except he has control over the whole thing. I think he can use up-B and still hopfloat back to the stage though.

footstooling on a Yoshi is far more lethal, but that's really rare too.
 

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
Yeah. If the Yoshi knows what he's doing, he can attack or airdodge or whatever during his DJ to stop any way you might want to gimp him.... it makes things very tricky :urg:
 

Phoenix_Dark

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
1,081
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
NNID
Phoenix2337
3DS FC
1289-8343-1385
You can hit Yoshi out with your Nair, Bair and Dair.
Uair and Fair don't hit strong enough.
It also depends on WHEN you've hit him because at higher percents, his DJ armor is more prone to break.
meanwhile if you smack him at 0% with a fully charged Fsmash he'll go through it like nothing happened.


@boxob: it isn't super armor at all. Its dictated by the amount of damage Yoshi has taken so the higher the damage, the easier it is to break. you can break his DJ with Ike's Fsmash at 0% at all points of the jump.
Are you sure B-air breaks through..? Any time I've ever tried B-air, Yoshi just took the percent, and kept on going. I have broken through with F-air though. Maybe it depends on Sonic landing all of the hits in his F-air..
 

Joshkip

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
352
Location
Louisville, Ky
NNID
Joshkip
3DS FC
0447-5552-4282
hey i used the advice on how to beat the crap out of olimar and it worked very well i might add.

but i would really like some advice on rob and gw please and thanks
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Alright let's see, both R.O.B. & G&W have been covered in the matchup thread... however the guide is still in the works, and maybe reading the thread just won't do.

From my point of view, you have to play Mr. Game & Watch very defensively (I'll start with him first since I know this matchup better). You'll probably have to play similiar to how you would play Olimar. Since neither you nor G&W have a way to really force either one to approach, you can just sit tight (as Sonic, am I insane?!) and let him come to you. The reason being is because G&W's moves are safe to use to counteract any approaches Sonic has in his arsenal, but his options get limited if he is approaching you.

It's like playing a MK to a degree, you have to bait attacks and punish accordingly. You can't get him, not with aerial or smash attacks (freaking spammable moves), and you can't miss an opportunity.

As for R.O.B., you will have to play aggresively, yet stay passive. R.O.B. has a blazing fast DSmash, which if it wasn't used OoS so often by R.O.B.s, would probably kill you. Let's see now... oh yes, don't stop moving in this match, R.O.B. has a bunch of stuff to hit you if you don't move around, like Gyro's, Lasers, powerful attacks like Bair, USmash, Nair, Dair (you shouldn't be getting hit by this anyway), and then there are his throws which is telling you you are either getting predictable if he is getting you, or you aren't running around. Now while you do have to stay on the assault, you can't go rushing in recklessly. You gotta precise with your attacks.

Unless you tell me what specific problems you're having with these two, this is all I can tell you. BTW R.O.B.'s recovery is really punishable, make use of whatever you got.
 

Joshkip

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
352
Location
Louisville, Ky
NNID
Joshkip
3DS FC
0447-5552-4282
Alright let's see, both R.O.B. & G&W have been covered in the matchup thread... however the guide is still in the works, and maybe reading the thread just won't do.

From my point of view, you have to play Mr. Game & Watch very defensively (I'll start with him first since I know this matchup better). You'll probably have to play similiar to how you would play Olimar. Since neither you nor G&W have a way to really force either one to approach, you can just sit tight (as Sonic, am I insane?!) and let him come to you. The reason being is because G&W's moves are safe to use to counteract any approaches Sonic has in his arsenal, but his options get limited if he is approaching you.

It's like playing a MK to a degree, you have to bait attacks and punish accordingly. You can't get him, not with aerial or smash attacks (freaking spammable moves), and you can't miss an opportunity.

As for R.O.B., you will have to play aggresively, yet stay passive. R.O.B. has a blazing fast DSmash, which if it wasn't used OoS so often by R.O.B.s, would probably kill you. Let's see now... oh yes, don't stop moving in this match, R.O.B. has a bunch of stuff to hit you if you don't move around, like Gyro's, Lasers, powerful attacks like Bair, USmash, Nair, Dair (you shouldn't be getting hit by this anyway), and then there are his throws which is telling you you are either getting predictable if he is getting you, or you aren't running around. Now while you do have to stay on the assault, you can't go rushing in recklessly. You gotta precise with your attacks.

Unless you tell me what specific problems you're having with these two, this is all I can tell you. BTW R.O.B.'s recovery is really punishable, make use of whatever you got.


ok i was told kinda a different way on how to fight olimars and it helped quite well i ownd olimar!

and i think my problem with the game and watch is that i play to aggressive with sonic i play him fast and extremely unpredictable.

buttttttttt with the r.o.b its just the lasers that kill me cause he camps so freaking much it just ticks me off everytime i try and approach him in some way he goes , *LASER/Gyro* "NO STAY OVER THERE!" and i just need a way to kinda get around him.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
ok i was told kinda a different way on how to fight olimars and it helped quite well i ownd olimar!

and i think my problem with the game and watch is that i play to aggressive with sonic i play him fast and extremely unpredictable.

buttttttttt with the r.o.b its just the lasers that kill me cause he camps so freaking much it just ticks me off everytime i try and approach him in some way he goes , *LASER/Gyro* "NO STAY OVER THERE!" and i just need a way to kinda get around him.
Take it to the skies then, R.O.B. isn't an aerial fighter exluding the Fair for WoPs, the Nair which has a lot of start-up time, Bair which leaves a blindspot on him everywhere else, Uair for juggling, and Dairs for spiking.

Oh good lrod, that's not assuring... I guess I should say that if you go aerial, you might not get hit by Gyros or Lasers as much as you would trying to approach him from the ground.

As for G&W, playing aggresively is a no-no. Bait attacks, punish accordigly... ??? PROFIT!!
 

SonicX580

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
1,649
Location
Orlando,FL
Hey I gotta a question to today I faced a Pikachu and how do I counter his thunder and mutiple moves? Dair, Fair etc. got any advice?
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Thunder - Don't get hit.

On a more serious note, if you mean avoiding it, just listen for the obvious "Pika!", and that's when you'll know you have to airdodge if you want to avoid it.

As for his multi-hit moves, there's a couple, so let's start.

DSmash - DI UP. It's that simple.

Bair (the one where he spins) - DI UP & AWAY from whatever direction Pikachu is falling on. Let's say he's Bairing you and moving left, go to your right while you're DIing up so that you can get away.

I keep forgetting What Pikachu's Uair is!

Fair - You have a Bair that outranges this, use it accordingly.

Dair - Start using Uair.

That's all I know.

Let me show you mah pokeyman.

:090:
 
Top Bottom