Browny
Smash Hater
Can I ask that you excuse my condescension... I actually dont know how it is possible that you dont know how to resize a picture?
I can make them any size you want.
-
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The Sonic Boards Community Guide (Reformat) - General/Moveset
- Thread starter Kinzer
- Start date
I can make them any size you want.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
browny, i dont feel like PMing you, so.
is it just me or is your tier list thread broken?
is it just me or is your tier list thread broken?
Browny
Smash Hater
All blogs are broken... have been for a while.
Seems all new ones, and all old ones past a certain date dont work. It'll be fixed eventually, this has happened before :/
Seems all new ones, and all old ones past a certain date dont work. It'll be fixed eventually, this has happened before :/
Pretty much this. NEVER use homing attack when an opponent is coming out to edgegaurd you, there's like a 90% chance you're going to get hit, and the HA will probably miss anyway. I would only use HA to punish opponents when they commit to an action, or you can predict what they do next (and even then, use it seldomly, since you are EXTREMELY vulnerable on startup).
Chis
Finally a legend
I don't know which frame it locks the target on. I wonder if Espy can find the frame data for it...
And the final thing I have to say about the HA is that it may be useful for gimping if the opponent is in the top corner of the screen.
Around the same size as the picture below. Maybe a little bit bigger.
And the final thing I have to say about the HA is that it may be useful for gimping if the opponent is in the top corner of the screen.
Not on SWF.
Around the same size as the picture below. Maybe a little bit bigger.
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
The only legit setup for a HA that i've found to work well is spindash footstool buffer'd HA. been practicing it for quite sometime and the move seems to land 95% of the time. spin charge though is alittle bit harder to pull it off with though :S.
Chis
Finally a legend
Man, I typed so much for such a bad move :/
Well the HA write up is in the OP...moving on to Ftilt.
Well the HA write up is in the OP...moving on to Ftilt.
Chis
Finally a legend
Done.
Ftilt
-Shield pokes
-Good range and decent damage
-Useful for spacing
-Can be tilted upwards and downwards
-Close up it hits for 4, 7%. At the tip of the shoes you just hit for 7%
Ftilt
-Shield pokes
-Good range and decent damage
-Useful for spacing
-Can be tilted upwards and downwards
-Close up it hits for 4, 7%. At the tip of the shoes you just hit for 7%
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
sonics game doesnt really rely on spacing much, so its not very easy to implement into his game.
move combos from moves with low knockback tho. like weak hit nair.
move combos from moves with low knockback tho. like weak hit nair.
Browny
Smash Hater
Ill do the attack screenshots on friday (saturday for the people who are too slow 16 hours behind me 
)
Do you think you could elborate 1 sentence for each of those points chis? I mean theres really not much to say about ftilt, just join all those points together for 3-4 sentences and maybe add something about it being his safest ground move that isnt dash attack? (Im pretty sure it is, when used at max range of course). I could do it... but I dont wanna be doing all of these
)Do you think you could elborate 1 sentence for each of those points chis? I mean theres really not much to say about ftilt, just join all those points together for 3-4 sentences and maybe add something about it being his safest ground move that isnt dash attack? (Im pretty sure it is, when used at max range of course). I could do it... but I dont wanna be doing all of these
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
wow...
no wonder its so hard to play sonic.
all of his ground moves are terribly punishable to the point of being unusable.
also explains why I f smash so much.
Its clearly the only move that even comes close to any kind of safety, and you have to charge it to do even that.
no wonder its so hard to play sonic.
all of his ground moves are terribly punishable to the point of being unusable.
also explains why I f smash so much.
Its clearly the only move that even comes close to any kind of safety, and you have to charge it to do even that.
Chis
Finally a legend
Forward Tilt
Damage: Close up - 4,7% (11%) Tip of Sonic’s shoes - 7%
Range: Good
Frame data: Frame 6 and frame 8 (lasts 34 frames)
hitbox duration (1st hit): 1 frame
hitbox duration (2nd hit) : frames 8-12 (5 frames)
Description: Sonic’s safest ground move after his dash attack. Close up ftilt hits twice for 4% and 7% (11%). However it’ll only hit once if you strike with the tip of his shoes (7%). Ftilt has decent shield poking potential when used close up partly due to hitting twice. It lacks the coming out speed of the jab but makes up for it with superior range and damage making it the better option up close. It can be used for spacing although being out classed by Bair.
Can be chained from low knock back moves at low percetages such as Dtilt and the weak hit box of Nair. Like forward smash, ftilt can be tilted up or down by tilting forward+upwards/downwards on the control stick. This is kind of pointless as it has minimal effect on the trajectory.
Done. I think it's alright. Too much? :O
Damage: Close up - 4,7% (11%) Tip of Sonic’s shoes - 7%
Range: Good
Frame data: Frame 6 and frame 8 (lasts 34 frames)
hitbox duration (1st hit): 1 frame
hitbox duration (2nd hit) : frames 8-12 (5 frames)
Description: Sonic’s safest ground move after his dash attack. Close up ftilt hits twice for 4% and 7% (11%). However it’ll only hit once if you strike with the tip of his shoes (7%). Ftilt has decent shield poking potential when used close up partly due to hitting twice. It lacks the coming out speed of the jab but makes up for it with superior range and damage making it the better option up close. It can be used for spacing although being out classed by Bair.
Can be chained from low knock back moves at low percetages such as Dtilt and the weak hit box of Nair. Like forward smash, ftilt can be tilted up or down by tilting forward+upwards/downwards on the control stick. This is kind of pointless as it has minimal effect on the trajectory.
Done. I think it's alright. Too much? :O
Kinzer
Mammy
If I recall, his shoes are the hitbox that has the 7%, whereas the one close to his torso is 4%, but I could very well have that backwards myself...
Other than that, yeah I don't really think there's much to say about FTilt.
Other than that, yeah I don't really think there's much to say about FTilt.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
kinzer is right.
single hit f tilt does 7%
single hit f tilt does 7%
Trent
Smash Champion
I thought it looked funny, didn't know for a fact though.
I just couldn't imagine hitting with the tip of my FTilt and only doing 4%, why even bother if that was the case.
I just couldn't imagine hitting with the tip of my FTilt and only doing 4%, why even bother if that was the case.
Chis
Finally a legend
Fixed and added. I might do the up tilt write up later.
Now the dash attack.
Now the dash attack.
Trent
Smash Champion
You can get punished for landing Dash Attack, depending on the opponent's %.
Which is stupid.
Which is stupid.
DA does 6% on the initial hitbox, and 4% i think on the later hitbox.
It comes out really fast, even from a standstill if you use the Control stick and the Cstick downwards.
I'm not sure on the frame data, but DA should be able to punish nearly any move that hits Sonic's shield, plus the low knockback from it makes followups easy. The late hit combos into Utilt extremely well, even at high percent, although it is pretty hard to land. You can also set up a spring under the opponent if you hit them with the weak hit, or just run back under them if you pop them up with the late hit.
So basically, use it to punish any laggy attack, but be careful at low percent since some characters can hit you with a bair before you can shield at certain percents.
It comes out really fast, even from a standstill if you use the Control stick and the Cstick downwards.
I'm not sure on the frame data, but DA should be able to punish nearly any move that hits Sonic's shield, plus the low knockback from it makes followups easy. The late hit combos into Utilt extremely well, even at high percent, although it is pretty hard to land. You can also set up a spring under the opponent if you hit them with the weak hit, or just run back under them if you pop them up with the late hit.
So basically, use it to punish any laggy attack, but be careful at low percent since some characters can hit you with a bair before you can shield at certain percents.
Kinzer
Mammy
Do it at the edge of the platform for extra points vulnerability frames.
I wonder how (un)safe it is if you connect with the first frame(s) of the hitbox. I think it also depends on where you hit the opponent. Or at least right I'm thinking of how it is on block. Let's assume that you hit the opponent while running from the left side. If you hit the shield from the right, the opponent will be sent towards the left and make it harder to punish because you are carrying momentum to the right side and he's being pushed towards the left. Flip it around vice-versa and it certainly makes their job easier because they get sent the same way you're going, not to mention that your momentum get's halted a bit.
Now I don't know how much later on, but eventually if DA connects at a certain %age and with a certain part of its hitbox, it will link into other attacks. Mainly UTilt or FTilt. Perhaps DTilt on spacies/fast-fallers. Could very well be that the opponent never DIs but then again DA comes out fast enough that they can't predict it.
...If they did, why did they get hit again? Lol?
The sad thing is that the strong hit does 6%. I don't even want to know how much the weak hit(s?) do. :/
I wonder how (un)safe it is if you connect with the first frame(s) of the hitbox. I think it also depends on where you hit the opponent. Or at least right I'm thinking of how it is on block. Let's assume that you hit the opponent while running from the left side. If you hit the shield from the right, the opponent will be sent towards the left and make it harder to punish because you are carrying momentum to the right side and he's being pushed towards the left. Flip it around vice-versa and it certainly makes their job easier because they get sent the same way you're going, not to mention that your momentum get's halted a bit.
Now I don't know how much later on, but eventually if DA connects at a certain %age and with a certain part of its hitbox, it will link into other attacks. Mainly UTilt or FTilt. Perhaps DTilt on spacies/fast-fallers. Could very well be that the opponent never DIs but then again DA comes out fast enough that they can't predict it.
...If they did, why did they get hit again? Lol?
The sad thing is that the strong hit does 6%. I don't even want to know how much the weak hit(s?) do. :/
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
dash attack is a move that you want to be more aware of who your fighting when you use it. MK and snake can punish you for it. characters like rob and zss cant really as well.
also. light hit can at certain percents set up for a turn around grab. somebody should do some testing to figure out when it is and isnt safe on hit.
also. light hit can at certain percents set up for a turn around grab. somebody should do some testing to figure out when it is and isnt safe on hit.
Kinzer
Mammy
Oh, I didn't even get into DASC. I would assume that it should at least get some kind of mention when talking about Dash Attack, but just a small one. I don't think it'd be a good idea to overwhelm people with possible/probable set-ups/follow-ups until we actually get into that.
Still, quite a fancy thing to pull off when I use DA at the edge, hit my opponents shield, and have them drop it only to get hit by a DJ Bair.
Also @KID:
Do you have any dummy in particular or should I just go ahead and use a duplicate Sonic as the dummy should I actually investigate your query?
Still, quite a fancy thing to pull off when I use DA at the edge, hit my opponents shield, and have them drop it only to get hit by a DJ Bair.
Also @KID:
Do you have any dummy in particular or should I just go ahead and use a duplicate Sonic as the dummy should I actually investigate your query?
Kinzer
Mammy
...
*Blink.*
...
You know, I've always used Sonic as my dummy, just because he seems to be the dead-center of midweight. I know in this case he may not be the best character to use becasue his Bair is slow, and if I used Fair, it doesn't have the range that other aerials may have to be able to punish the strong hit of DA. I can see the weak-hit, but aside from that...
...
But who could I use specifically? That's why I asked. I really don't know too much about the specific frame-data of other characters.
*Blink.*
...
You know, I've always used Sonic as my dummy, just because he seems to be the dead-center of midweight. I know in this case he may not be the best character to use becasue his Bair is slow, and if I used Fair, it doesn't have the range that other aerials may have to be able to punish the strong hit of DA. I can see the weak-hit, but aside from that...
...
But who could I use specifically? That's why I asked. I really don't know too much about the specific frame-data of other characters.
Kinzer
Mammy
*Ahem.*
Sonic is the only thing that matters to me in this game!
/fanboy.
Fine fine, I'll look into Meta Knight. For some reason though, his Bair doesn't feel threatening...
Sonic is the only thing that matters to me in this game!
/fanboy.
Fine fine, I'll look into Meta Knight. For some reason though, his Bair doesn't feel threatening...
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
you have to test it on every character individually since every character has different weights (how high they get hit by the dash attack) fall speeds (how fast the fall back to the ground after they get hit) and attack properties (bairs or dairs that may be able to counter attack us after they get hit. And you have to test the strong and weak hits of the move.
also, metas bair can be pretty devastating, since unfinished bair combos into down smash, strong nair, grab, and grounded up b.
also, metas bair can be pretty devastating, since unfinished bair combos into down smash, strong nair, grab, and grounded up b.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Along with like 9 other attacks from MK.
I wish DA killed. =\
I wish DA killed. =\
Kinzer
Mammy
That'd be way too time-consuming for the moment. I suppose maybe I can do something over Christmas break (maybe), but right now I am not in the mood to do anything except maybe one character (Which I suppose will be MK). Literally, Smash, talking wit-
Wait a minute, I forgot that this is a forum. Nevermind.
And since this is off-topic, but still makes me curious, I just wanna ask this once:
Can't you (S)DI MK's Bair so that it doesn't link directly into DSmash?
I wish Sonic's Dsmash came out on frame 5.
Well you can SDI pretty much everything, so I'm pretty sure you can get away from MK and avoid dsmash, but he should still have enough of a frame advantage to get something else in if he sees it coming. Assuming you are both at low percents, dash grab would be the best option anyway.
Browny
Smash Hater
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/jab1.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/jab2.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/jab3.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dtilt.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/ftilt.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/utilt.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dattack.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/fsmash.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dsmash.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/usmash.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/nair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/uair1.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/uair2.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/fair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/bair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/grab.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/pummel.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/uthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/bthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/fthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/homing.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/upb.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/downb.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/sideb.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup1.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup2.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup99.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup101.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/froll.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/broll.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/adodge.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/sdodge.jpg
I think I'll get another picture for airdodge; I dont like that one I got today. I'll edit it tomorrow.
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/jab2.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/jab3.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dtilt.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/ftilt.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/utilt.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dattack.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/fsmash.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dsmash.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/usmash.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/nair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/uair1.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/uair2.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/fair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/bair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dair.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/grab.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/pummel.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/dthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/uthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/bthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/fthrow.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/homing.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/upb.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/downb.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/sideb.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup1.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup2.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup99.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/getup101.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/froll.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/broll.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/adodge.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/dan88albums/Brawl - Sonic/sdodge.jpg
I think I'll get another picture for airdodge; I dont like that one I got today. I'll edit it tomorrow.
Trent
Smash Champion
I like the Green Hill Zone stage for the back ground. 
Chis
Finally a legend
Good job Browny. I’ve added that Dsmash write up you did a while ago and my up tilt one. So who’s willing to do the dash attack write up?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
somebody else can do the write up, but Im actually going to do the testing for all these percents Im probably going to make a thread for it.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
u can SDI then DJ away during ff MK bair. Anyways KID i am eager for your findings. DA does dumb damage, however its like the easiest move to hit with. You can land camp with it like no tomorrow ( owns that 3 frames of landing lag) so it would be nice to know when a ftilt, utilt, dtilt,etc would be good options (especially ftilt because people always DI that move after DA stupidly and give free tech chases).
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
better idea, how about sdiing it up aned than hitting with first hit falling up air? that leads into lots of follow ups, but i think up tilt is the only one that will work consistently versus mk
and since im in myrtle beach for the next 10 days, Ill have plenty of free time to do this testing.
and since im in myrtle beach for the next 10 days, Ill have plenty of free time to do this testing.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
Sounds good. We need more testing these days, alot of our data is seriously old. Theres alot of stuff we have figured out since then that need some conformation.
SDI ing up? perfect. yeah and utilt is good enough. 14% goodness and puts him up in the air for more silly uair traps. We need to confirm traps out of uair too. or at least what situations do we have a large advantage after a whiffed uair. Also frame advantage on AC uair. Oh and KID i have found a way there it isnt too situational to utilize this frame advantage.
1) Edgehogging to ff ledgehop uair.
2) run off spinshot uair
3 ) oh and because of the wonderful cancel KID we get free frame traps if we do uair out SH at the appropiate time. we should have ample time to use whatever.
So KID, go ahead and test that Dash attack stuff. Im going to see what i can do with these uair shenanigans. Still would love someone to help me find perfect AC uair frame advantage. (anyone?)
SDI ing up? perfect. yeah and utilt is good enough. 14% goodness and puts him up in the air for more silly uair traps. We need to confirm traps out of uair too. or at least what situations do we have a large advantage after a whiffed uair. Also frame advantage on AC uair. Oh and KID i have found a way there it isnt too situational to utilize this frame advantage.
1) Edgehogging to ff ledgehop uair.
2) run off spinshot uair
3 ) oh and because of the wonderful cancel KID we get free frame traps if we do uair out SH at the appropiate time. we should have ample time to use whatever.
So KID, go ahead and test that Dash attack stuff. Im going to see what i can do with these uair shenanigans. Still would love someone to help me find perfect AC uair frame advantage. (anyone?)