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Social The Social Thread 3.2.1

StormC

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I think if series like Ace Combat can find success, you could do something with Star Fox, but Nintendo would have to rethink how to make and market the games. A 2 hour rail shooter at full price won’t fly anymore.
 

TheMightyP

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If indie studios can sell to niche markets and not operate at a loss, then there's no reason Nintendo can't have a b-team who makes smaller budget projects in their more niche franchises that cater to those fanbases. It's not impossible
They do this a lot more than you think, the B-Tier series are usually outsourced, including Star Fox (Rare, Namco, Q Games, and even Platinum Games). Star Fox just hasn't been up to par when it came to sales, Zero was a net negative in particular.
Honestly it feels like there are a lot of biases in this conversation. Statements that people are assuming need to be true that just... don't. They don't need to pander to an audience that doesn't want what the series is by "reinventing it". That's how you get a split and divided fanbase. Any money is good money. As long as there is profit and they're not making the project at a loss, they're fine. They still make games with that mindset now even. Look at Metroid Dread. Not every game needs to be the most successful thing on the planet when you own Mario AND Pokemon as well as heavy hitters like Animal Crossing, Splatoon, and Zelda. You can be free to spread things around a little bit.
Dread was really only possible because Samus Returns, which didn't sell the best, fair, but it was received well critically and got the awards, which showed that interest in Metroid was still alive. They earned another shot with Dread which sold 3 million and currently the best selling Metroid game. Had Samus Returns had bad reception, I bet Metroid would be dead in the water as well.

Also yeah all money is good money but they need to actually generate a profit to see the cash.
Like. What do you gain by sitting here convincing yourself that a brand new Star Fox is impossible and that the series is dead and will never come back unless it turns itself into Fortnite or Dark Souls? Does that bring you happiness? Closure? Contentment? Can you not find those things in realizing that there are just as plenty of ways that it could come back that aren't wishful thinking or pointless idealism? Like... I just don't get it. Cause when I convince myself that the thing I want is never gonna happen, I'll tell you, it doesn't improve my state of being at all. Better to be either optimistic or at least neutral. Cause that's what the universe is. Neutral. Everything is just as likely to happen as anything else. Especially when there are billions of things happening behind closed doors at these companies shifting the outcome that we don't know about. So why convince yourself of a conclusion off of a data set that you know is incomplete?
Never said it was impossible, but unlikely due to bad sales, and bad critical and audience reception. Big Corps pay heavy attention to that, remember, Nintendo killed other franchises because if that (think Chibi Robo, F-Zero, heck, even Fire Emblem almost died because of that). And I was thinking that they'd overhaul it and make it more like a mixture of the classic style, Assault, and Adventures (think Star Wars games or No Man's Sky), idk how you managed to think of Fortnite and Dark Souls first and foremost.

What’s funny is they already did this in 2002 :nifty:
Ironically, I think it was the best recieved one on Metacritic besides the OG and 64.
 

TheMightyP

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I think if series like Ace Combat can find success, you could do something with Star Fox, but Nintendo would have to rethink how to make and market the games. A 2 hour rail shooter at full price won’t fly anymore.
If you ask me, they should give the Assault style another shake.

It's a shame it sold like ass because imo they could have cooked.
 

SnakeFighter64

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They do this a lot more than you think, the B-Tier series are usually outsourced, including Star Fox (Rare, Namco, Q Games, and even Platinum Games). Star Fox just hasn't been up to par when it came to sales, Zero was a net negative in particular.

Dread was really only possible because Samus Returns, which didn't sell the best, fair, but it was received well critically and got the awards, which showed that interest in Metroid was still alive. They earned another shot with Dread which sold 3 million and currently the best selling Metroid game. Had Samus Returns had bad reception, I bet Metroid would be dead in the water as well.

Also yeah all money is good money but they need to actually generate a profit to see the cash.

Never said it was impossible, but unlikely due to bad sales, and bad critical and audience reception. Big Corps pay heavy attention to that, remember, Nintendo killed other franchises because if that (think Chibi Robo, F-Zero, heck, even Fire Emblem almost died because of that). And I was thinking that they'd overhaul it and make it more like a mixture of the classic style, Assault, and Adventures (think Star Wars games or No Man's Sky), idk how you managed to think of Fortnite and Dark Souls first and foremost.


Ironically, I think it was the best recieved one on Metacritic besides the OG and 64.
Well because you said this
I mean in a perfect world where things like operating at a profit and a loss are nonexistant, yeah fair. But the games can't even crack a million which is far from ideal for a multi billion corp. Chances are, they just don't think there's enough demand, and lets be real, the latest gens (Z and Alpha) are more into small indie games or grand action adventure RPGs, if they want to sell Star Fox to the new gen they gotta overhaul it because the sit in ship and shoot style isn't working.
Latest Gens made me think of Fortnite and action adventure RPGs made me think of Dark Souls.

And I mean maybe what you're describing could work but to be honest I don't think they need to do that. Just take what worked in 64, come up with a new story that's actually a sequel and not a reboot/retelling, and improve upon what was there without adding some weird new gimmicky control system.

Like. The core of Star Fox has always been spaceship flight and dog-fighting. Why do we suddenly need to go down to the planets surface and get out of the ship? Why are we exploring all of a sudden other than it's a buzzword that makes blue puppets brains go burr. (Note: I'm using this as an opportunity to make fun of Arlo, not to imply that Arlo is like... indicative of Nintendo's core audience or something.) Like... why can't Star Fox just be Star Fox instead of trying to cater itself to random twitch streamers and 5 year olds who probably won't even become dedicated series fans and who just play anything that has those buzzwords stamped on the back of the box?
 

TheMightyP

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Well because you said this

Latest Gens made me think of Fortnite and action adventure RPGs made me think of Dark Souls.
There is so much more beyond those two.

And I mean maybe what you're describing could work but to be honest I don't think they need to do that. Just take what worked in 64, come up with a new story that's actually a sequel and not a reboot/retelling, and improve upon what was there without adding some weird new gimmicky control system.
Simply put, doing 64 style over and over again isn't gonna cut it in 2024. Audiences need more than that or they need something different. The Dogfighting can still be there but it needs more than than on rails shooting.

Like. The core of Star Fox has always been spaceship flight and dog-fighting. Why do we suddenly need to go down to the planets surface and get out of the ship?
Exploration and on foot fighting has been a thing they tried in the Gamecube era, even in 64 and SF2 they did surface fighting via the landmaster and the arwing walkers. It's always been present.
Why are we exploring all of a sudden other than it's a buzzword that makes blue puppets brains go burr. (Note: I'm using this as an opportunity to make fun of Arlo, not to imply that Arlo is like... indicative of Nintendo's core audience or something.) Like... why can't Star Fox just be Star Fox instead of trying to cater itself to random twitch streamers and 5 year olds who probably won't even become dedicated series fans and who just play anything that has those buzzwords stamped on the back of the box?
I mean... exploring is the rage these days, people like collectible goodies and 100% percenting. Star Fox had that too, exploration and performance rewards you with different pathways and in some cases, different endings.

Also you think new gen are streamers and 5 year olds. The issue is that most streamers are millenials, and the new gen are old enough to be in High School.
 
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SnakeFighter64

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There is so much more beyond those two.


Simply put, doing 64 style over and over again isn't gonna cut it in 2024. Audiences need more than that or they need something different. The Dogfighting can still be there but it needs more than than on rails shooting.


Exploration and on foot fighting has been a thing they tried in the Gamecube era, even in 64 and SF2 they did surface fighting via the landmaster and the arwing walkers. It's always been present.


I mean... exploring is the rage these days, people like collectible goodies and 100% percenting. Star Fox had that too, exploration and performance rewards you with different pathways and in some cases, different endings.

Also you think new gen are streamers and 5 year olds. The issue is that most streamers are millenials, and the new gen are old enough to be in High School.
Mario Wonder is doing fine and it didn't have to go open world and add crafting.

Let the thing shine for what it is. Especially since we get it so infrequently.
 

SnakeFighter64

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I think if series like Ace Combat can find success, you could do something with Star Fox, but Nintendo would have to rethink how to make and market the games. A 2 hour rail shooter at full price won’t fly anymore.
Never heard of Ace Combat before. But if it's found a way to work without straying from what makes it itself, then that's what Star Fox should do.
 

TheCJBrine

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A new supporting artwork for Project Voltage was released; “Winter Festival” by sanpati. It has Ice-type Miku, Snow Miku, Froslass, and both forms of Vulpix:

I am a day late but I must share all the PokéMiku news.
 
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SnakeFighter64

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That is not what I said, you're making an argument that doesn't exist
How is it not. You're saying in order for a new star fox game to be worth making it needs to be profitable and therefore have the buzzword game-play descriptors that are "currently popular" instead of just being a really good version of what it is.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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eh I think japanese voices are better usually(+ its a good litmus test for my japanese studies)

except Teddie, Teddie's JP Va is actually eargrating
There are times where I would say "yeah the jp va is better" but p4 isnt one of those for me. Im a ride or die Eng P4 shiller
 
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TheMightyP

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How is it not. You're saying in order for a new star fox game to be worth making it needs to be profitable and therefore have the buzzword game-play descriptors that are "currently popular" instead of just being a really good version of what it is.
Simply put, doing 64 style over and over again isn't gonna cut it in 2024. Audiences need more than that or they need something different. The Dogfighting can still be there but it needs more than than on rails shooting.
Keywords being "needs more". The issue with Star Fox is that the series hasn't evolved in the slightest and instead they keep doing 64 style. Which fair, it is the most popular, but they don't bother doing anything beyond that so what we get are rehashes and regurgitations and very stale games. In 2024, that's not cutting it, especially for 60 smackeroos cause Nintendo can't price for their life. If they can't bother to evolve the style, then do something new.

Also you bring up Mario Wonder as an example like Wonder didn't evolve the 2D style from a very, VERY stale period of 2D Mario games.
 
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SnakeFighter64

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Keywords being "needs more". The issue with Star Fox is that the series hasn't evolved in the slightest and instead they keep doing 64 style. Which fair, it is the most popular, but they don't bother doing anything beyond that so what we get are rehashes and regurgitations and very stale games. In 2024, that's not cutting it, especially for 60 smackeroos cause Nintendo can't price for their life. If they can't bother to evolve the style, then do something new.

Also you bring up Mario Wonder as an example like Wonder didn't evolve the 2D style from a very, VERY stale period of 2D Mario games.
I mean... i played through the whole game and it's still a very standard 2D platformer. It's just sometimes you do weird gimmicks in the levels and it looks different from the past 4 games in a visual sense. I think that's very different from what you're suggesting with Star Fox which involves making it into a very different kind of game just because you liked Assault. I agree they can't keep remaking 64 and charging 60 bucks. But I don't think your solution is the right solution.
 

Z25

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Day 2 of Pokémon rumor posting leading to Pokemon day. Today we have Legends Rayquaza again because there’s so many damn black/white and johto rumors that these ones are fun to read:
IMG_9670.jpeg

IMG_9671.jpeg
Hoenn would always be hype and a story with the dracoids would be really cool. I like the idea of sootopolis being created in this game as well.

Biggest red flag is the 60 hz and 1080p. I don’t have enough faith in game freak actually pulling that off lol.
 

SnakeFighter64

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Snake you of all people should know that's a bad faith comparison, Mario Wonder succeeded because it literally wasn't the same as the last 5-6 mainline mario games, that's pretty much it.
I don't think it is. They're asking to add completely new genre styles into Star Fox. Say what you want about how "different" Mario Wonder is. It's still a 2D platformer.
 

Dinoman96

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I honestly find these debates regarding Star Fox pointless because the series was always meant to be Miyamoto's wacky experimental playground to **** around with new ideas in the 3D gaming space at the end of the day, like you're not gonna get Furry Mass Effect from it, but you're also not going to get "Literally Star Fox 64 2 with no gimmicks attached", that really isn't how Nintendo works with most of their IPs (outside of the big mega sellers like NSMB) anyways.
 

TheMightyP

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I mean... i played through the whole game and it's still a very standard 2D platformer. It's just sometimes you do weird gimmicks in the levels and it looks different from the past 4 games in a visual sense.
I mean it's standard, Mario IS the standard. But they evolved the 2D Mario series by taking what worked in NSMB, and combined it with several other aspects from the series, and then gave it a brand new identity. What we got was a breath if fresh air after NSMB was samey.
I think that's very different from what you're suggesting with Star Fox which involves making it into a very different kind of game just because you liked Assault. I agree they can't keep remaking 64 and charging 60 bucks. But I don't think your solution is the right solution.
Well what a sequel needs to do is to evolved the franchise in a new and innovative way. Assault did that by giving the classic on rails dogfights, but then also gave grounded combat based on 64s multiplayer. You could get new weapons, upgrade the ship, run or fly around in open ended areas but at the end of the day the core mechanics was very similar to 64, being complete the mission while doing sci-fi space fights. Regardless of execution, that evolved the series and gave it an identity, something that was different but was still Star Fox at the end of the day.

But they just ignored the improvements and new features that game provided because it sold bad so now we just get 64. Again. And again. And again. That's how a sequel fails over and over and over.
 

Dinoman96

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Well what a sequel needs to do is to evolved the franchise in a new and innovative way. Assault did that by giving the classic on rails dogfights, but then also gave grounded combat based on 64s multiplayer. You could get new weapons, upgrade the ship, run or fly around in open ended areas but at the end of the day the core mechanics was very similar to 64, being complete the mission while doing sci-fi space fights. Regardless of execution, that evolved the series and gave it an identity, something that was different but was still Star Fox at the end of the day.
I'd also say that Star Fox 2, obviously the first intended SF sequel, was like that as well. It too is an arcade shooter in the mold of SF1 and SF64 but unlike those games, it's not just merely a corridor shooter and was already heavily emphasizing 3D open range third person shooter combat years before Assault and also Zero. Dylan Cuthbert has even stated on the record that the only reason SF1 was like that was because of technical limitations.

Hell, here's a fun fact: even Star Fox 64 was supposed to have on-foot combat in its single player campaign. The dev team wanted to have another stage on Venom that would have involved Fox getting out of his Arwing and shooting at Andross with a bazooka, but this was scrapped for time and the pilot mode in Battle Mode is a remnant of that. Read for yourself here in this interview from the old Japanese guidebook.
 
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TheMightyP

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This general era of the internet was something special.

Ridiculous, but special.
I can proudly say I never had a phase like that when I was younger.

See I was raised on Christian Music and that only in my middle school-high school years and I hated anime so take THAT.

I liked the Sponge tho
Also he said sunshine was one of his favorite Mario games which caught me by surprise lol.
Common King Charles W

Alright, playtime’s over.







Pick one. The other disappears.
Blue Pill. Easy.
 
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StormC

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Never heard of Ace Combat before. But if it's found a way to work without straying from what makes it itself, then that's what Star Fox should do.
Well, Ace Combat is moreso about dogfights than arcade rail shooting. An arcade rail shooter runs into the problem 3D Sonic had; you have to design a lot of terrain and map that the player will zoom by once and not be able to backtrack on. Nintendo would have to figure out how to balance the scope and budget with that style of gameplay, which isn’t easy.
 

Noipoi

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A rumor from Universo Nintendo says Switch 2 will have full physical and digital backwards compatibility and Switch 1 games can be enhanced through it.

It better.
As it should.

The Switch’s library is too great to not have backwards compatibility. Not to mention I don’t want the virtual console restarting again.
 

SnakeFighter64

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I mean it's standard, Mario IS the standard. But they evolved the 2D Mario series by taking what worked in NSMB, and combined it with several other aspects from the series, and then gave it a brand new identity. What we got was a breath if fresh air after NSMB was samey.

Well what a sequel needs to do is to evolved the franchise in a new and innovative way. Assault did that by giving the classic on rails dogfights, but then also gave grounded combat based on 64s multiplayer. You could get new weapons, upgrade the ship, run or fly around in open ended areas but at the end of the day the core mechanics was very similar to 64, being complete the mission while doing sci-fi space fights. Regardless of execution, that evolved the series and gave it an identity, something that was different but was still Star Fox at the end of the day.

But they just ignored the improvements and new features that game provided because it sold bad so now we just get 64. Again. And again. And again. That's how a sequel fails over and over and over.
The series already had an identity. You can still innovate without turning it into No Man's Sky but with furies. You don't need the stuff Assault did. You just need to find ways to make the ship game-play bigger and more meaty.

Also Mario Wonder does not have a "new identity". If you think that's a new identity than you're definition is too loose.
 

HyperSomari64

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A rumor from Universo Nintendo says Switch 2 will have full physical and digital backwards compatibility and Switch 1 games can be enhanced through it.

It better.
First Centro Pokemon and now this.

Gee, as an Hispanic person, I didn't knew Nintendo rumors is our bread and butter.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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disagree, I've seen clips of the english dub and its just eh imo
For me, i cant see yosuke without it be Yuri Lowenthal or Yu as Yong Bosh. Is a remake happens and those two are recast, the game is 100% mid by default
Hell, I dont want ANY of them recast
 
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