Tech-Nelium the Shark
Smash Ace
The Project:M Snake Discussion and Information Thread
For those who do not know Project:M is an evolution of vBrawl like Brawl-/+ but instead of just giving more hit-stun the creators also included many tweaks that were taken away from gameplay in the transition between Melee and Brawl. With these additions the game play much more like Melee than Brawl did.
This thread is for those who wish to know about the changes that were made to Snake and for thing related to Project:M and Snake.
Ground Moves
Jab: Snake no longer has his machine gun rapid fire jab. It is still 3 frames as far as I can tell but you can no longer just hold it to punish spot dodge spammers.
Forward Tilt: While it looks the same it no longer has the same range. On the plus side FTilt1 trips the opponent every time now and if they do not tech, it guarantees a follow up. FTilt2 now has two kinds of hits. The sour spot sends the victim at a low angle and it feels like Ganon's Tipman. The second is a sweetspot that kills pretty well.
Up Tilt: Is now a cool upper cut. While they nerfed it quite a bit, it still has a good bit of range but I believe it is a bit slower and it not longer kills the way it did.
Down Tilt: About the same except it now has a hitbox behind Snake which is very nice. Hitbox in front send opponent upwards and the one behind snake sends them at a 45-60 degree angle. Backwards hit does not have the range of the forward hitbox.
Forward Smash: Same as in Brawl although it seems faster. When timed right and the opponent is recovering from below nearly impossible to get by.
Up Smash: I will miss the Mortar Slide. Seems to be quicker and the first hit seems to have set knock back and pops the opponent into the shell if uncharged or only a bit.
Down Smash: Most Improved ground move. Now is much faster and kills rather quickly. Also has a bigger area for activating the mine. As soon as you plant in get yourself away from it as it become active much faster than before.
Dash Attack: Same as Brawl and maybe one of the best dash attacks in the game.
Aerials
Neural Air: Is now a 3 part spin kick for a total of 18 damage. Fast and short lag time, thank god Snake can now defend himself in the air
Forward Air: The Flying Axe Kick now is a useable move. I believe the entire move is a spike or a meteor smash if your opponent is in the air and if used on a grounded opponent it sends them at a low angle.
Back Air: This move is a god send, amazing kill power, fast and short lag on L-cancel
Up Air: Nerfed the kill power like up tilt but can be used to follow up Up tilts at mid percent and vise versa.
Down Air: Is down a weak meteor smash with the first few hits but the last one is a doozie and might be a true spike. Reduced damage like Nair but still hits hard. If you're a boss try timing the last hit of air with someone trying to recover(trying being the key word) and watch them get stair mastered.
Specials
Grenade: Snake can now only pull out one nade and is forced to either shield drop it or toss it immediately or it blows up on you. Timer is reduced to 2 seconds. While not being able to pull out 2 nades is a definite blow to Snake’s power I’m unsure about how the timer will effect snake.
Nikita: Well this remote controlled missile has a good use now. This could potentially be the best edge guarding tool in P:M as you can no longer air dodge like it’s going out of style.
Cypher: About the same as in Brawl but now with the Melee air dodge you can get a bit of extra height. Also we get our 2nd jump and Cypher back if we get grabbed on the edge.
C4: Same as Brawl C4 but with added mindgames. By holding down and not letting go of Down B you cancel the detonation and can be done multiple times. Also this no longer times out as far as I can tell and will stay until you get rid of it. We can still C4 jump if needed, just don's spam Down B as you will fake out yourself all the way down.
Grab and Throws
Grab: Same as in Brawl. With Jump Canceling your Grab you get about the same distance as a Grenade Grab from Brawl.
Forward and Back Throw: Now has set knock back. All the better to throw people into your explosives with.
Down Throw: Same as Brawl. When you want to go for racking up damage on floaties that are too damaged to get followed by up throw and if you don’t have a mine in range.
Up Throw: Infinitely more useful than in Brawl can be used to chaingrab and link into up tilts.
Great information posted by M0nkun1t that Ran figured out about some kill and be killed percents along with some misc. info
Good ways to play with your Snake
Also, here are some tips!
1. Some bread and butter combos are:
SHFFL Nair -> Grab
Dair -> C4 sticky
utilt -> nair/bair/dair/uair
utilt -> C4 sticky
ftilt 1 -> C4 sticky
f/bthrow or dthrow tech chase -> dtilt/C4 sticky
f/throw or dthrow into claymore(dsmash mine) -> aerial
those are just some examples, there are plenty more to discover
2. Killing Options
C4 is one of the main killing options that snake has
you can also use the claymore to kill around 115
fsmash to edgeguard and it also hits slightly below the stage
ftilt 2 from a f/bthrow or dthrow tech chase
dtilt from dash attack(only at low %)/ f/bthrow and dthrow tech chase
3. The main thing with snake is usually tech chasing into explosives
See this for where to plant claymores and C4
i can make more stage guides if you guys want, i can also start working on character MUs with the help of everyone
About early damage on the spacies by OUMN.
Videos
Melee Techs- Instead of me explaining worse and for time here are some of the AT you can do from Melee
Here is a great video series that will teach you some of the more advance techs from Melee.
Video 1 Covers Shorthoping, Fast Fasting, L-canceling and the combination of them all SHFFLing.
Video 2 Covers a few techs you should know about and stuff about Out of Shield and Wave Landing/Dashing
Video 3 Covers Dash Dancing, Jump canceling and Crouch Canceling
Stuff to improve you game
Pretty sexy recovery
For those who do not know Project:M is an evolution of vBrawl like Brawl-/+ but instead of just giving more hit-stun the creators also included many tweaks that were taken away from gameplay in the transition between Melee and Brawl. With these additions the game play much more like Melee than Brawl did.
This thread is for those who wish to know about the changes that were made to Snake and for thing related to Project:M and Snake.
Ground Moves
Jab: Snake no longer has his machine gun rapid fire jab. It is still 3 frames as far as I can tell but you can no longer just hold it to punish spot dodge spammers.
Forward Tilt: While it looks the same it no longer has the same range. On the plus side FTilt1 trips the opponent every time now and if they do not tech, it guarantees a follow up. FTilt2 now has two kinds of hits. The sour spot sends the victim at a low angle and it feels like Ganon's Tipman. The second is a sweetspot that kills pretty well.
Up Tilt: Is now a cool upper cut. While they nerfed it quite a bit, it still has a good bit of range but I believe it is a bit slower and it not longer kills the way it did.
Down Tilt: About the same except it now has a hitbox behind Snake which is very nice. Hitbox in front send opponent upwards and the one behind snake sends them at a 45-60 degree angle. Backwards hit does not have the range of the forward hitbox.
Forward Smash: Same as in Brawl although it seems faster. When timed right and the opponent is recovering from below nearly impossible to get by.
Up Smash: I will miss the Mortar Slide. Seems to be quicker and the first hit seems to have set knock back and pops the opponent into the shell if uncharged or only a bit.
Down Smash: Most Improved ground move. Now is much faster and kills rather quickly. Also has a bigger area for activating the mine. As soon as you plant in get yourself away from it as it become active much faster than before.
Dash Attack: Same as Brawl and maybe one of the best dash attacks in the game.
Aerials
Neural Air: Is now a 3 part spin kick for a total of 18 damage. Fast and short lag time, thank god Snake can now defend himself in the air
Forward Air: The Flying Axe Kick now is a useable move. I believe the entire move is a spike or a meteor smash if your opponent is in the air and if used on a grounded opponent it sends them at a low angle.
Back Air: This move is a god send, amazing kill power, fast and short lag on L-cancel
Up Air: Nerfed the kill power like up tilt but can be used to follow up Up tilts at mid percent and vise versa.
Down Air: Is down a weak meteor smash with the first few hits but the last one is a doozie and might be a true spike. Reduced damage like Nair but still hits hard. If you're a boss try timing the last hit of air with someone trying to recover(trying being the key word) and watch them get stair mastered.
Specials
Grenade: Snake can now only pull out one nade and is forced to either shield drop it or toss it immediately or it blows up on you. Timer is reduced to 2 seconds. While not being able to pull out 2 nades is a definite blow to Snake’s power I’m unsure about how the timer will effect snake.
Nikita: Well this remote controlled missile has a good use now. This could potentially be the best edge guarding tool in P:M as you can no longer air dodge like it’s going out of style.
Cypher: About the same as in Brawl but now with the Melee air dodge you can get a bit of extra height. Also we get our 2nd jump and Cypher back if we get grabbed on the edge.
C4: Same as Brawl C4 but with added mindgames. By holding down and not letting go of Down B you cancel the detonation and can be done multiple times. Also this no longer times out as far as I can tell and will stay until you get rid of it. We can still C4 jump if needed, just don's spam Down B as you will fake out yourself all the way down.
Grab and Throws
Grab: Same as in Brawl. With Jump Canceling your Grab you get about the same distance as a Grenade Grab from Brawl.
Forward and Back Throw: Now has set knock back. All the better to throw people into your explosives with.
Down Throw: Same as Brawl. When you want to go for racking up damage on floaties that are too damaged to get followed by up throw and if you don’t have a mine in range.
Up Throw: Infinitely more useful than in Brawl can be used to chaingrab and link into up tilts.
Great information posted by M0nkun1t that Ran figured out about some kill and be killed percents along with some misc. info
Setup: Mario on FD, controller port 2 Spawn. Attacks hitting towards the left side. Percentages are before the attack damage is added.
Moves with killing power
F Tilt [Second hit only sweet spot]-> 118
U Tilt -> 130
D Tilt [Sweet Spotted]-> 193
D Tilt [Closest hitbox] -> 145
Dash attack -> 176
F-Smash -> 52
F-Smash [Fully charged] -> 25
Down Smash - > 106
Down Smash [Fully charged] -> 60
Up Smash -> 200
Up Smash [Fully Charged] -> 190
Fair [Sweet Spotted] -> 85
Fair [Closest Hitbox] -> 124
Bair [Sweet Spotted] -> 110
Uair - 124
Nair [Final hit only] -> 136
Up throw -> 217
C4: 92
Grenade - 168
C4 Combinations
Up Throw + C4 -> 64
Dash attack + C4-> 67
Down Tilt - C4 -> 63
Up Tilt + C4 -> 62
Fair + C4 -> 70
Bair + C4 -> 75
Uair + C4-> 58
Dair [All hits] + C4 -> 65
Down Smash + C4 -> 46
Grenade + C4 -> 63
Moves that kill YOU - added 2/10
Fox - Up Smash -> 88
Fox - Fsmash -> 109
Fox - Up Air -> 106
Fox - Up Throw + Up Air -> 79
Marth - F-Smash Tipper-> 65
Marth - F-Smash -> 127
Marth - D-Smash Tipper -> 90
Marth - Nair Tipper -> 165
Marth - Dolphin Slash -> 109
Shiek - Up Smash -> 139
Shiek - Down Smash -> 147
Shiek - Fair -> 135
Shiek - Uair -> 143
Shiek - Bair -> 131
More to come.
Grenades
1) Grenade -> Shield -> Jump -> Catch -> Throw is your second fastest way to throw in the air if you want to have more control of where you throw.
2) You can do the above, but with instant throwing. Dear god the timing is ********.
3) You can wavedash out of shield to grab your grenade as well.
4) B-reversed aerial nade to wave dash to directional throw with the C-stick is great.
5) Just generically pulling a grenade to wavedash is good as well.
6) Grenade -> backwards wave-dash -> catch ledge is pretty nifty.
7) The same, but on a platform such as on BF is equally nice.
8) If you wave dash out of the grenade stance near the edge of a platform's ledge, you can instantly throw it or plant C4.
9) Wave dash off platform, b-reverse-> wave dash is super sexy.
Options after planting Landmine
1) Pivot Grab.
2) Roll [Ew]
3) Retreating/Approaching Fair/Nair
4) Wave Dashing
5) Replant Landmine
6) Dair the landmine while rising to explode it.
7) Full hop B Reversal. [lands in front of mine. ]
8) Mortar Slide.
9) Cypher
10) A single Jump Cancel throw puts you JUST out of range of the explosion radius.
Misc
1) Dair is 'non recoverable' as a spike at around 20% on Mario.
2) You can actively dair someone as they trigger a landmine for a great amount of damage. [32] You won't take any damage! =d
3) Snake usually falls from the lip of FD to the edge of the visible stage between the time of dropping a C4, and detonating it.
4) If Snake is a short hop's height above the lip in Fd, a pulled grenade will detonate, saving him. Due to the quicker explosion time, it allows Snake to take less damage when you need to gain height when recovering if used preemptively.
FD and you.
1) Snake can safely recover from doing any of his aerials as a walk off from the stage.
2) Fair is the only aerial that won't kill you when you fast fall.
3) The lip plays nicely with your Cypher.
4) B-reversing out of cypher when you're near the lip and otherwise would die, will often put you back onto the stage.
Crouch is pretty Op. <-- New
Move's that can't hit:
Marth's Uptilt
Marth's Nair
Marth's Bair only hits when fast fallen at the last moment.
Sheik's Bair.
Captain Falcon's Bair
Captain Falcon's Fair is extremely tight to time.
Captain Falcon's Jab
Link's Bair can usually only hit the last hit, and that's tight.
Link's Uptilt
G&W's Uptilt
G&W's NINE won't hit. Some will though.
Zelda's Jab
Zelda's Nair only hits once.
Zelda's UpSmash
Ganon's Jab
Ganon's Fair
Ganon's Bair
Ganon's Nair
Ganon's Dash attack [If started -very- close to you.]
Ganon's Ftilt [unless angled down.]
Ganon's F-Smash [Unless angled down.]
Ganon's D-Smash
Ganon's U-Smash
Jigglypuff's Rest.
Jigglypuff's Pound [unless angled down quickly.]
Snake's C4 cannot sticky you.
Sonic's Fair can only get one hit in. [4-6%]
And pretty much every upair in the game.
Grabs that fail:
Marth's Grab fails 90% of the time.
Ganon's Grabs
Zelda's Grab
Captain Falcon's Grab
Sheik's Grab fails 90% of the time.
Moves with killing power
F Tilt [Second hit only sweet spot]-> 118
U Tilt -> 130
D Tilt [Sweet Spotted]-> 193
D Tilt [Closest hitbox] -> 145
Dash attack -> 176
F-Smash -> 52
F-Smash [Fully charged] -> 25
Down Smash - > 106
Down Smash [Fully charged] -> 60
Up Smash -> 200
Up Smash [Fully Charged] -> 190
Fair [Sweet Spotted] -> 85
Fair [Closest Hitbox] -> 124
Bair [Sweet Spotted] -> 110
Uair - 124
Nair [Final hit only] -> 136
Up throw -> 217
C4: 92
Grenade - 168
C4 Combinations
Up Throw + C4 -> 64
Dash attack + C4-> 67
Down Tilt - C4 -> 63
Up Tilt + C4 -> 62
Fair + C4 -> 70
Bair + C4 -> 75
Uair + C4-> 58
Dair [All hits] + C4 -> 65
Down Smash + C4 -> 46
Grenade + C4 -> 63
Moves that kill YOU - added 2/10
Fox - Up Smash -> 88
Fox - Fsmash -> 109
Fox - Up Air -> 106
Fox - Up Throw + Up Air -> 79
Marth - F-Smash Tipper-> 65
Marth - F-Smash -> 127
Marth - D-Smash Tipper -> 90
Marth - Nair Tipper -> 165
Marth - Dolphin Slash -> 109
Shiek - Up Smash -> 139
Shiek - Down Smash -> 147
Shiek - Fair -> 135
Shiek - Uair -> 143
Shiek - Bair -> 131
More to come.
Grenades
1) Grenade -> Shield -> Jump -> Catch -> Throw is your second fastest way to throw in the air if you want to have more control of where you throw.
2) You can do the above, but with instant throwing. Dear god the timing is ********.
3) You can wavedash out of shield to grab your grenade as well.
4) B-reversed aerial nade to wave dash to directional throw with the C-stick is great.
5) Just generically pulling a grenade to wavedash is good as well.
6) Grenade -> backwards wave-dash -> catch ledge is pretty nifty.
7) The same, but on a platform such as on BF is equally nice.
8) If you wave dash out of the grenade stance near the edge of a platform's ledge, you can instantly throw it or plant C4.
9) Wave dash off platform, b-reverse-> wave dash is super sexy.
Options after planting Landmine
1) Pivot Grab.
2) Roll [Ew]
3) Retreating/Approaching Fair/Nair
4) Wave Dashing
5) Replant Landmine
6) Dair the landmine while rising to explode it.
7) Full hop B Reversal. [lands in front of mine. ]
8) Mortar Slide.
9) Cypher
10) A single Jump Cancel throw puts you JUST out of range of the explosion radius.
Misc
1) Dair is 'non recoverable' as a spike at around 20% on Mario.
2) You can actively dair someone as they trigger a landmine for a great amount of damage. [32] You won't take any damage! =d
3) Snake usually falls from the lip of FD to the edge of the visible stage between the time of dropping a C4, and detonating it.
4) If Snake is a short hop's height above the lip in Fd, a pulled grenade will detonate, saving him. Due to the quicker explosion time, it allows Snake to take less damage when you need to gain height when recovering if used preemptively.
FD and you.
1) Snake can safely recover from doing any of his aerials as a walk off from the stage.
2) Fair is the only aerial that won't kill you when you fast fall.
3) The lip plays nicely with your Cypher.
4) B-reversing out of cypher when you're near the lip and otherwise would die, will often put you back onto the stage.
Crouch is pretty Op. <-- New
Move's that can't hit:
Marth's Uptilt
Marth's Nair
Marth's Bair only hits when fast fallen at the last moment.
Sheik's Bair.
Captain Falcon's Bair
Captain Falcon's Fair is extremely tight to time.
Captain Falcon's Jab
Link's Bair can usually only hit the last hit, and that's tight.
Link's Uptilt
G&W's Uptilt
G&W's NINE won't hit. Some will though.
Zelda's Jab
Zelda's Nair only hits once.
Zelda's UpSmash
Ganon's Jab
Ganon's Fair
Ganon's Bair
Ganon's Nair
Ganon's Dash attack [If started -very- close to you.]
Ganon's Ftilt [unless angled down.]
Ganon's F-Smash [Unless angled down.]
Ganon's D-Smash
Ganon's U-Smash
Jigglypuff's Rest.
Jigglypuff's Pound [unless angled down quickly.]
Snake's C4 cannot sticky you.
Sonic's Fair can only get one hit in. [4-6%]
And pretty much every upair in the game.
Grabs that fail:
Marth's Grab fails 90% of the time.
Ganon's Grabs
Zelda's Grab
Captain Falcon's Grab
Sheik's Grab fails 90% of the time.
Good ways to play with your Snake
Also, here are some tips!
1. Some bread and butter combos are:
SHFFL Nair -> Grab
Dair -> C4 sticky
utilt -> nair/bair/dair/uair
utilt -> C4 sticky
ftilt 1 -> C4 sticky
f/bthrow or dthrow tech chase -> dtilt/C4 sticky
f/throw or dthrow into claymore(dsmash mine) -> aerial
those are just some examples, there are plenty more to discover
2. Killing Options
C4 is one of the main killing options that snake has
you can also use the claymore to kill around 115
fsmash to edgeguard and it also hits slightly below the stage
ftilt 2 from a f/bthrow or dthrow tech chase
dtilt from dash attack(only at low %)/ f/bthrow and dthrow tech chase
3. The main thing with snake is usually tech chasing into explosives
See this for where to plant claymores and C4
i can make more stage guides if you guys want, i can also start working on character MUs with the help of everyone
About early damage on the spacies by OUMN.
Videos
Melee Techs- Instead of me explaining worse and for time here are some of the AT you can do from Melee
Here is a great video series that will teach you some of the more advance techs from Melee.
Video 1 Covers Shorthoping, Fast Fasting, L-canceling and the combination of them all SHFFLing.
Video 2 Covers a few techs you should know about and stuff about Out of Shield and Wave Landing/Dashing
Video 3 Covers Dash Dancing, Jump canceling and Crouch Canceling
Stuff to improve you game
Pretty sexy recovery
