The Snake FAQ/Q&A Thread

[Berserker.]

I see.... But it's few only :O

I agree with you with Falco and about Yoshi's f-air.....

BLAME SAKURAI!!1 >:B

 

[sandwhale]

i thought you couldn't DI a grab release. well then if falco doesn't DI i'm pretty sure the fair works.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

you can't di a grab release, but you can di after the animation is over.

 

[Berserker.]

And f-air still won't work

 

[sandwhale]

well i'll believe you though it's still good to use on people who don't think about DIing

 

[luke_atyeo]

well I dont actually know IF snakes grab release to fair spike on the edge works on falco, but I dont see why not.

I assume all you people saying it could never work arnt aware that snake can aerial release chain-grab falco, its hard to do, but if done properly its unescapable.

so falco picks fd on you, you get the grab, chain him to the edge and spike him?
does it work? who wants to test it? is it sweet delcious irony that someone can do falcos gay **** back to him?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

it doesn't work lol, if Falco can escape yoshi's Falco can escape Snake's.

and the Snake board doesn't sleep I swear, I've been up all night writing a paper and there were always someone on here.

 

[Nic64]

Snake board is nocturnal, it sleeps during the day.

well I dont actually know IF snakes grab release to fair spike on the edge works on falco, but I dont see why not.

Think about it

it's Snake's fair

SNAKE'S FAIR

That is all.

 

[sandwhale]

you might still want to test it...just sayin

 

[Yumewomiteru]

lets see...
Falco has 50 frames of lag on air release

Snake has 30 frames of lag when falco breaks out
Snake's dash has 15 frames of startup.
Fair first hitbox comes on frame 23

Falco has 18 frame advantage on Snake unless Snake is like right on the ledge, even then theres at least a 3 frame advantage.

WUT! YOU AINT GOT NUTHIN ON DIS BIRD

<------ Falco main

edit: hmm, so Falco's fastest response is air dodge with invincibility on frame 4, so unless you can find a way to transist from stage to air in 0 frames we can always airdodge, although our safest move to use is our double jump which starts out on 7. And if you grab us in the air after we used our 2nd jump were kinda ****ed cuz the only thing we got is phantasm or firebird.

 

[Nic64]

you might still want to test it...just sayin

It's Snake's fair, when should it EVER be guaranteed? Maybe in some kind of crazy doubles throw combo...

 

[sandwhale]

in the situation i'm talking about snake is right on the ledge so that only leaves falco 3 frames. if double jump starts on frame 7 then the fair hits.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

you still gotta move from the ledge to offstage, that doesnt happen in 0 frames.

 

[luke_atyeo]

so basically if your frame perfect, you have a chance at getting them, although I doubt anyone would fall for it more then once if at all.

still, someone should at least test it imo.
while we're on the subject, I wonder if theres anything we can do in this situation, because if you know how to do the chaingrab on falco, and you get taken to fd, it could be a useful little trick.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

idk if you can even get it, your assuming that just by walking off and fair you will hit falco with the 1st hit box, i really doubt that.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Since I was stuck with the decision to either test this or do the house work... I confirmed Sandwhale's finding which you have all been debating for 2 pages Yeah, frame data is not there to support it being a 100% hit, but dang is it almost legit.

This only works when Snake grabs Falco on the very edge. The point where a dthrow would set them in the air. Simply run offstage and Fair. Simply due to human reaction, a jump is likely to happen causing them to jump straight into a Fair spike. I want to say that this is avoidable with 2nd jumping and airdodging. But as Sandwhale said, those this is a pretty sexy move to use against those that don't know about this little trick

 

[Yumewomiteru]

does it work if he jump backwards? thats the usual response from falcos.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

does it work if he jump backwards? thats the usual response from falcos.

Not really sure. The CPU I had jumping for me simply jumped period. But the height gained in the jump was pretty small. Try it out yourself, but the placement has to be almost exact. Without a dash you will not get enought momentum offstage to get this to work. This means you need room to dash, but too much room and you risk losing the small frame window this could resonablly work in.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I would try it but I can't fair myself and jump backwards, if your doing it on a cpu he prob isnt even buffering the jump.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Alright, I found out for sure. This only works at the very edge, you need a dashing start, AND falco must fall some relative distance downwards in order for Fair to hit.

Using this image as a reference, Red line is Snake's location. The line horizontal to the top of the stage is the area where Falco can first jump. The line just below it is the area where Falco would have to be in order to get hit at all. The person would have to delay in realizing they should be jump right away in order for this to work.

On a side note, I came up with a potiental use for using Dair to get a Fsmash KO. Stay tuned for more

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Any Falco whos played a Yoshi before would know to mash backwards jump out of a grab release, the only potential i see is if you grab falco in the air after he used his second jump so hes forced to phantasm/firebird.

Speaking of which, lets see if we have a sure way to kill Falco if we grab him in the air.

 

[Infern Angelis]

Did u guys know if u try to grab a falco/other space animal from his phantasm, its a sure kill? Just wondering if u guys knew about this

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Did u guys know if u try to grab a falco/other space animal from his phantasm, its a sure kill? Just wondering if u guys knew about this

Heard of it, but I need an explaniation as to how it works.

 

[Infern Angelis]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=252813

here is thread about it

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hmm... I didn't know there were others like Snake with the same problem he has. I guess having a hitbox around your attack prevents earlier discovery of this.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Thats grabbing out of up b, grabbing their phantasm will still leave them with their phantasm and firebird.

 

[Infern Angelis]

Yes but they can easily be edgeguarded right afterwards since the grab release will leave them lower in their recovery.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

does it? I'm pretty sure that if falco phantasm asap he can reach the stage. Since snake grabs at a pretty high point.

 

[Berserker.]

Who is a better camper? Olimar or Snake?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Olimar is the best camper of all time.

 

[sandwhale]

Thats grabbing out of up b, grabbing their phantasm will still leave them with their phantasm and firebird.

then you just have to fair spike them

xeylode thanks for testing but are you sure falco can react exactly when he's stage level?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

fairs too slow, bair instead.

 

[sandwhale]

fair would work and looks way cooler

 

[Berserker.]

F-air is too slow,I arguably think it's one of his worst moves, If not the worst. Only Ally knows how use but due to it being weaker than Yoshi's f-air that damages the same and Yoshi's is faster, it's slow speed, terrible lag, easy to predict it could be Snake's worst move though it's cool but still

 

[Nic64]

Who is a better camper? Olimar or Snake?

Olimar outcamps Snake but I would say Snake is a better camper overall. From the perspective of my other characters, Olimar's camping really doesn't mean anything at all, it just happens to work well on Snake.

 

[Berserker.]

I would say Snake is a better camper overall.

This makes the most sense. I love this! Complements Snake uterness

Making this my sig

 

[Nic64]

Has more to do with Olimar not actually being that good, if I'm MK I can outcamp him pretty reliably because his pikmin can't stay on me long enough to cause any damage, if they even reach me to begin with. Snake is groundlocked and has slow attacks so once he has a pikmin on him any attempt to shake it off is punishable.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm only cautious of Red pikmins. The others >_>

 

[luke_atyeo]

ok so really the whole grab release on falco into a run off fair isnt really ever going to work...
but what if instead you grab released him over the edge, ran off the edge and your double jump with an uair into him, surely that would be much harder for him to avoid (although if he saw it coming you'll probably get spiked)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Avoiding all other factors of the match. If you have Snake throwing nades at someone and that is it. The other someone is trying to avoid nades that is it. In that situation, grenades are not that hard to avoid. With jumping, rolling, air doding, and all other movements a person can use, grenades cannot really punish all options. What I would like is proof that camping solves all problems. No one has really ever explained to me in enough factual evidence and reasoning that camping is the sole way to go. All projectiles have ever done in a match are serve as tools to help the main focus of game play which happens in CQC.