The Snake FAQ/Q&A Thread

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

When Link's dair hits Snake's cypher, will Snake not get hit and you'll just hear a sword sound and will Link bounce off the cypher?

...hmm.... I'm trying to remember back when Link's did that to me often. If I recall, if you keep rising into the air, Dair will simply hit Snake out of Cypher recovery. But, if you let go before it hits you Link will just bounce off the cypher.

 

[Berserker.]

Link's dair seems like trouble when your recovering even though it's laggy and when Snake's grenades explode on Link's bombs, right Link's bombs will explode?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Link's dair seems like trouble when your recovering even though it's laggy and when Snake's grenades explode on Link's bombs, right Link's bombs will explode?

Yeah, I hate trying to recover low against Link, it's pretty much a safe option for him to use against you.

Just did a quick few trials, grenades thrown against bomb thrown equaled an explosion.

 

[Berserker.]

Plus, if he hits you with dair, he'll bounce and he'll recover back to the stage (Its high enough but it's horrible)

How do you escape Kirbycide especially if your losing by a stock?
And what if Kirby spits Snake under the stage?

 

[Attila_]

ok the following question is going to sound nooby, but please dont give me a nooby answer. i am one of the best players in australia (which doesnt mean an espc large amount, but at least means im not crap) and recently moved to japan to study, and have just found some smashers in my area. a couple of those guys rank top 15 in japan, so theyre pretty legit too. anyway, theyre giving me massive trouble with mk and d3.

firstly mk... i am having trouble with the tornado. typically i camp mks that use dair and tornado, but these ones are seriously different. they fly around and dair avoiding grenades until they get close enough to space a tornado, and then they suck you in (any grenades youre holding get dropped automatically). they will only do this when you dont have enough time to throw the grenade, so they make you drop it and get free damage. once in the tornado, they follow you around until the attack ends (i sdi up and away and sometimes get out, but it doesnt matter), and the proceed to space another tornado. there isnt enough time to throw a grenade, so even though i pull one out, he spaces so that i just drop it. anyway, this cycle continues without me being able to reach the ground for quite some time.

i tried wavebouncing after getting hit by the first tornado, which sometimes worked, and bairing was also ok if i sdi-ed perfectly above him. anyway, what should i do in this situation (do i just have to camp better to avoid it or can i get out of it), and why doesnt anyone in the west do this?

and something else i wanted to say, its not a question, just more of a general point... the **** think that snake vs d3 is 70:30 d3, and after today, i definately agree. snake outcamps d3, but once d3 gets close, snake quickly runs out of options. you cant pull out a grenade, or you get grabbed, so you cant camp anymore. your attacks can all me shield grabbed. and once you are chaingrabbed to the edge, thats where the real fun begins. 9/10, if i was cg-ed to the edge at low damage, i didnt return until 70%+. if d3 took the first stock, he *almost* is guaranteed a d3cide if he wants it after the cg. he can chase easily, dtilt is guaranteed, and i was footstooled out of my c4 today on more than one occasion. the mu is silly, really.

 

[Turazrok]

ok the following question is going to sound nooby, but please dont give me a nooby answer. i am one of the best players in australia (which doesnt mean an espc large amount, but at least means im not crap) and recently moved to japan to study, and have just found some smashers in my area. a couple of those guys rank top 15 in japan, so theyre pretty legit too. anyway, theyre giving me massive trouble with mk and d3.

firstly mk... i am having trouble with the tornado. typically i camp mks that use dair and tornado, but these ones are seriously different. they fly around and dair avoiding grenades until they get close enough to space a tornado, and then they suck you in (any grenades youre holding get dropped automatically). they will only do this when you dont have enough time to throw the grenade, so they make you drop it and get free damage. once in the tornado, they follow you around until the attack ends (i sdi up and away and sometimes get out, but it doesnt matter), and the proceed to space another tornado. there isnt enough time to throw a grenade, so even though i pull one out, he spaces so that i just drop it. anyway, this cycle continues without me being able to reach the ground for quite some time.

i tried wavebouncing after getting hit by the first tornado, which sometimes worked, and bairing was also ok if i sdi-ed perfectly above him. anyway, what should i do in this situation (do i just have to camp better to avoid it or can i get out of it), and why doesnt anyone in the west do this?

and something else i wanted to say, its not a question, just more of a general point... the **** think that snake vs d3 is 70:30 d3, and after today, i definately agree. snake outcamps d3, but once d3 gets close, snake quickly runs out of options. you cant pull out a grenade, or you get grabbed, so you cant camp anymore. your attacks can all me shield grabbed. and once you are chaingrabbed to the edge, thats where the real fun begins. 9/10, if i was cg-ed to the edge at low damage, i didnt return until 70%+. if d3 took the first stock, he *almost* is guaranteed a d3cide if he wants it after the cg. he can chase easily, dtilt is guaranteed, and i was footstooled out of my c4 today on more than one occasion. the mu is silly, really.

U-tilt beats out nado if it's spaced right IIRC. Tilt your shield up on the ground.

For D3, you can pull out a grenade if you have port priority and maybe break out IIRC. I think it's a 60:40 MU here though , besides that I'm no expert but I do play D3, and I would cg you to edge if you got grabbed, then fthrow or dthrow and try to bair you to death, or just grab you out of your cyphyer.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Turazok, if you are CGing Snake to the edge, you know about the Dtilt finisher off of Dthrow on the edge right? Dtilt is a better KO move at higher perecents than Fthrow is because the move more likely to be fresh, and it generates a lower angle along horizontal axis than Fthrow will. Which will lower the effects of DI.

(typing up response to DDDs favor)
I still feel the match-up isn't that bad as 70-30. The only thing DDD has on you is edgeguarding and CG. If DDD fails at edgeguarding and you know how to DI you won't be dying until very high percents. DDD has a horrible time trying to land a KO move. Utilt is his only good one and that is avoided by simply staying out of reach. Grabs should be fairly easy to avoid. The reason is that you should tell if he is being extremely grabby. Rolls and spotdodges will take care of the grabs. If I recall, even if DDD grabs you and you have a grenade out, he cannot Dthrow you, Bthrow, or Fthrow you without blowing up (given you have port priority its so important in that match up to have it). Uthrow will likely be his choice of move if a grenade is around. The rest of his move set on the ground frankly is not all that great. So he can throw waddle dees at you, they move so slow that if you PS them you have enough time to dash attack or even Ftilt DDD depending upon the distance. Ftilt is a ***** at close range, but that is realy the only troublesome move to deal with on the ground after grabs.

Plus, Snake should be able to edgeguard DDD just as well. Even though he is heavy and has good recovery, but he is exactly like Snake when it comes to trying to get back onto the stage, his options are sufferly limited. You can equally rack up enough damage that he could on you from edgeguarding.

 

[Attila_]

U-tilt beats out nado if it's spaced right IIRC. Tilt your shield up on the ground.

For D3, you can pull out a grenade if you have port priority and maybe break out IIRC. I think it's a 60:40 MU here though , besides that I'm no expert but I do play D3, and I would cg you to edge if you got grabbed, then fthrow or dthrow and try to bair you to death, or just grab you out of your cyphyer.

the problem with nado is more so when he gets me in the air. bair beats it from directly above, but besides that, im not too sure off what to do. wavebounce sometimes saved me; maybe i should just run away with cypher...

Turazok, if you are CGing Snake to the edge, you know about the Dtilt finisher off of Dthrow on the edge right? Dtilt is a better KO move at higher perecents than Fthrow is because the move more likely to be fresh, and it generates a lower angle along horizontal axis than Fthrow will. Which will lower the effects of DI.

(typing up response to DDDs favor)
I still feel the match-up isn't that bad as 70-30. The only thing DDD has on you is edgeguarding and CG. If DDD fails at edgeguarding and you know how to DI you won't be dying until very high percents. DDD has a horrible time trying to land a KO move. Utilt is his only good one and that is avoided by simply staying out of reach. Grabs should be fairly easy to avoid. The reason is that you should tell if he is being extremely grabby. Rolls and spotdodges will take care of the grabs. If I recall, even if DDD grabs you and you have a grenade out, he cannot Dthrow you, Bthrow, or Fthrow you without blowing up (given you have port priority its so important in that match up to have it). Uthrow will likely be his choice of move if a grenade is around. The rest of his move set on the ground frankly is not all that great. So he can throw waddle dees at you, they move so slow that if you PS them you have enough time to dash attack or even Ftilt DDD depending upon the distance. Ftilt is a ***** at close range, but that is realy the only troublesome move to deal with on the ground after grabs.

Plus, Snake should be able to edgeguard DDD just as well. Even though he is heavy and has good recovery, but he is exactly like Snake when it comes to trying to get back onto the stage, his options are sufferly limited. You can equally rack up enough damage that he could on you from edgeguarding.

i really dont think edgeguarding snake is that hard with d3. at least, it didnt seem to be. basically, after a cg to the edge, d3 has 4 options.

1) wait to see if snake will try and jump up, (shield) grab him, leaving him i an much worse state than before.

2) dive down after him with fair/bair. he can normally avoid a hit or two if he backs away, but will take a lot of damage at low percents (forcing the c4 recovery). snake may airdodge jump back onto the stage if the d3 is too keen. also worth menioning that i was footstooled out of my c4 recovery on more than one occasion, then baired under the stage.

3) d3cide. incredibly difficult to avoid as snake, and it can happen right after a stock is taken.

4) dtilt for the ko.

everytime d3 gets the grab, there is a decent possibility for a ko, or at least, for a hell of a lot of damage. i just havent seen the west doing it right yet.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

i really dont think edgeguarding snake is that hard with d3. at least, it didnt seem to be. basically, after a cg to the edge, d3 has 4 options.

1) wait to see if snake will try and jump up, (shield) grab him, leaving him i an much worse state than before.

2) dive down after him with fair/bair. he can normally avoid a hit or two if he backs away, but will take a lot of damage at low percents (forcing the c4 recovery). snake may airdodge jump back onto the stage if the d3 is too keen. also worth menioning that i was footstooled out of my c4 recovery on more than one occasion, then baired under the stage.

3) d3cide. incredibly difficult to avoid as snake, and it can happen right after a stock is taken.

4) dtilt for the ko.

everytime d3 gets the grab, there is a decent possibility for a ko, or at least, for a hell of a lot of damage. i just havent seen the west doing it right yet.

Those four options really only work if you decide to ground release or Dthrow. If you let Snake try to get out of the grab and you do not pummel him out, you'll just give him an air release where he will try to recover on high. Finishing with Dthrow -> Dtilt or Fthrow will give Snake height through DI unless it kills (which it won't until like a 170% I think on most stages).

The Dthrow and ground release are more problomatic for Snake to recover from. However, if you Dthrow too far from the ledge Snake can just let himself fall until he autosnaps the ledge. If you Dthrow closer to the stage he can try to jump straight up (towards you is bad as stated earlier) and try to recover on high. Anytime he tries to recover on high it is so much easier for him to avoid you. The fact is that trying to edgeguard Snake has more scenarios to look out for than you might think. And prove of that is that DDD doesn't always get a CG - edgeguard death as he probably should. Snake can sneak past

 

[Yumewomiteru]

If Snake jumps straight up DDD has the option of f-tilting you thus taking away your second jump forcing you to recover with cypher w/o the boost which really sucks for Snake

 

[Berserker.]

DD ain't really hard for Snake, you just need the right timing of pulling out the grenade when you can predict that DDD is gonna chaingrab you. Using Dair against DDD on ground is okay since he's a big target but do it at your own risk because if yiu miss it, landing lag will be pretty long making DDD chaingrab you. Nair is also pretty good against DDD when you trying to edgeguard him but he can easily DI out of it. F-tilt him when you have the chance to and spam some grenades, fend off the waddle dees and doos and avoid gordos, when your recovering be careful because you can be grabbed out of cypher so you need good DI so in other words, DI, grenades, racking up damage, defensive playstyle and mindgames is really important against DDD. If your battling against him in doubles, I say you use MK obviously or other of DDD's hardest match ups. Anyway, the match up isn't as bad as 60:40 DDD, probably 45:55 or possibly 50:50. If DDD is a slow roller, you can D-throw chain grab him but if he's not a slow roller, good luck, I'm just asking also if DDD is a slow roller.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

when i play d3 i use meta. because next to diddy this is my worst matchup.

i just cant f with the d3 here i call all his projectiles goombas. cuz thats how i roll lol.

on a side note just watched like 50 minutes worth of alley for falco matches. got some good stuff for the matchup

 

[Attila_]

DD ain't really hard for Snake, you just need the right timing of pulling out the grenade when you can predict that DDD is gonna chaingrab you. Using Dair against DDD on ground is okay since he's a big target but do it at your own risk because if yiu miss it, landing lag will be pretty long making DDD chaingrab you. Nair is also pretty good against DDD when you trying to edgeguard him but he can easily DI out of it. F-tilt him when you have the chance to and spam some grenades, fend off the waddle dees and doos and avoid gordos, when your recovering be careful because you can be grabbed out of cypher so you need good DI so in other words, DI, grenades, racking up damage, defensive playstyle and mindgames is really important against DDD. If your battling against him in doubles, I say you use MK obviously or other of DDD's hardest match ups. Anyway, the match up isn't as bad as 60:40 DDD, probably 45:55 or possibly 50:50. If DDD is a slow roller, you can D-throw chain grab him but if he's not a slow roller, good luck, I'm just asking also if DDD is a slow roller.

you ruined all credibility with your last statement btw, cause if you ever versed a d3 (much less managed to grab one) you should remember how he rolls. chaingrab only blows up nades if his *** hits it, which is a chance thing. pending on whether he grabs, dash grabs, boost grabs, pivot grabs etc the position of the nade has to be slightly different. ftilt/jab are normally shield grabbed, since thats what d3 always does. you can camp him pretty easily; the problems begin once he manages to get in close. dont see how its close to 50:50...

 

[Limeee]

what is the input for a boost grab?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Dash (start a run) -> c-stick down -> grab. The c-stick down -> grab inputs have to be done fairly quickly. If you dash attack, then you didn't press grab fast enough after inputting the c-stick down input.

 

[Turazrok]

Is there ever a use for shield dropping a nade, picking it up, and glide tossing it?

Also, you don't have to type out Turazrok, Turaz is fine, or T, or Turok, or that guy with the Marth avi in the snake boards.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

you ruined all credibility with your last statement btw

You don't have to be like that

chaingrab only blows up nades if his *** hits it

I am thinking of making this a sig xD

ftilt/jab are normally shield grabbed, since thats what d3 always does. you can camp him pretty easily; the problems begin once he manages to get in close. dont see how its close to 50:50...

Alright, the match-up is close to 50-50 (I agree with 55-45 DDD) because you are not looking at all the stuff Snake can do to DDD.
1) Both are heavy.
2) Both counter whatever the other can throw at them. Both juggle, and edgeguard each other will the same efficency. You must know that DDD has a horrible time trying to get back onstage and avoid juggling, etc. DDD and Snake are almost equal his this respect.
3) Snake has the advantage of access to way more KO moves that KO at lower percents and are slightly easier to connect than DDD. DDD lacks this advantage due to how much more difficult it is to land them. With proper spacing, Snake isn't dying from a KO move, it's mostly due to taking so much damage from CGs and edgeguarding from DDD that he finally dies.

This match-up becomes a matter of rock-paper-scissors.

Is there ever a use for shield dropping a nade, picking it up, and glide tossing it?

Also, you don't have to type out Turazrok, Turaz is fine, or T, or Turok, or that guy with the Marth avi in the snake boards.

"that guy with the marh avi in the snake boards." If you say not to type out Turazok, why would I ever want to type that out

There are some uses to glide tossing, but they are really limited. I glide toss backwards as it adds that extra bit of distance between me and my opponent. Also, I use glide tossing to limit my time taken trying to throw grenades. Instead of walk to a position and toss up or down, I glide toss it and then I am pretty much already in the area I need to be without taking that extra time to walk or dash over there.

 

[Superspright]

It can be a good spacing tool like he said. I prefer to do the downward glidetoss after a little bit so they explode slightly above my head but not close enough to hurt me so I can just walk away and wait. It gives the ground more priority.

 

[Berserker.]

What are cp stages against DDD?

You also had to say I ruined it, lol and you didn't have to say that too to emphasize it again. Well anyway, it is actually close to 50:50 like what Xeylode said. In fact, it's 50:50 to Susa.

Kinda off-topic though, what makes Link pretty hard for Snake compared to the bottom tiers:
- Has projectiles like Snake
- Pretty good tilts also
- Both of them have poor air games (I think Link has better in my opinion)
- Link's dair isn't useless against Snake. It can spike cypher pretty well

Back to the DDD thing:
Just follow what Xeylode said then you'll realize it because if you don't, good luck reading DDD's moves and himself.

 

[.decoy]

what is the input for a "jumpcancelledthrow" and what are its uses?

i know someone just asked a similar question about glide tossing but. yeah.

if its uses are the same just say so and tell me how its done lol.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

When you have an item in your hand and running, press jump, then before you jump you can press any direction on the c-stick or control stick + a and throw it anywhere. Fox and Wolf gain a good slide from this, dunno is Snake does.

 

[Attila_]

2) Both counter whatever the other can throw at them. Both juggle, and edgeguard each other will the same efficency. You must know that DDD has a horrible time trying to get back onstage and avoid juggling, etc. DDD and Snake are almost equal his this respect.

you dont think d3's recovery is better than snake's? lol. not to mention that d3 can d3cide any attempt at off stage edgeguard, or threaten to d3cide in order to grab the ledge.

3) Snake has the advantage of access to way more KO moves that KO at lower percents and are slightly easier to connect than DDD. DDD lacks this advantage due to how much more difficult it is to land them. With proper spacing, Snake isn't dying from a KO move, it's mostly due to taking so much damage from CGs and edgeguarding from DDD that he finally dies.

you should die from a chaingrab at low damage, or at least take a shietload trying to recover. much easier for him to kill snake, simply because of the gimp. ko moves are irrelevant if your getting gimped. not to mention he can grab ANY attempted approach (snake literally doesnt have a move to outspace the grab). all snake can do is camp. d3 will take some damage closing the distance, but he manages to, you get grabbed, put off stage, where you should really struggle to recover, if d3 knows what he's doing. not to mention that a d3cide from a chaingrab is almost guaranteed, so if he takes the first stock, you should lose.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

not to mention that a d3cide from a chaingrab is almost guaranteed, so if he takes the first stock, you should lose.

How would you escape it?

 

[PIMPSLAP]

you dont think d3's recovery is better than snake's? lol. not to mention that d3 can d3cide any attempt at off stage edgeguard, or threaten to d3cide in order to grab the ledge.



you should die from a chaingrab at low damage, or at least take a shietload trying to recover. much easier for him to kill snake, simply because of the gimp. ko moves are irrelevant if your getting gimped. not to mention he can grab ANY attempted approach (snake literally doesnt have a move to outspace the grab). all snake can do is camp. d3 will take some damage closing the distance, but he manages to, you get grabbed, put off stage, where you should really struggle to recover, if d3 knows what he's doing. not to mention that a d3cide from a chaingrab is almost guaranteed, so if he takes the first stock, you should lose.

ok in other events i also use d3 (i counter pick alot!) ok when i play snakes i cg to the edge and the options become drastically limited. although if you get to play a truly good snake. you wont be grabing snake that much. i found this out the hard way lol.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

you dont think d3's recovery is better than snake's? lol. not to mention that d3 can d3cide any attempt at off stage edgeguard, or threaten to d3cide in order to grab the ledge.

Your looking at it the wrong way again from what I am ultimately getting at. D3s recovery is certainly better than Snake's. DDD can recover no matter how many times he is thrown off and pretty much from any angle.

The problem with the recovery is in how he recovers. First off, his UpB is extremely punishable. It has only 3 outcomes. Cancel and go for the ledge or cancel and go for the stage. Or just land back on the stage with its hitbox. This makes it extremely easy to punish when the person only has to look at a few options. Land on the stage and you have to deal with a ton of lag which will more than likely will be punished and thus DDD has to attempt to recover AGAIN. The cycle begins again.

The next problem lies in his aerial movement. His aerial movement is one of the worst in Brawl if I recall. This means that DDD has to go for the ledge, or near the stage edge everytime. It doesn't matter if DDD grabs the ledge or not, what options does he have from the ledge that won't get punished the moment he tries to get back on stage? The options he has are to jump, rolls, get-up attack, get-up or simply stall there on the ledge. DDD is at the disadvantage when he is on the ledge.

So the whole idea is that DDD is extremely easy to juggle and that means free damage a lot of damage. This helps counteract a lot of the damage the he might incur from a CG. And inhaling is punishable if tried at the ledge for a cide. Just throw a grenade in his mouth.

And yeah, a CG can mean 0%-death from DDD is possible, but that just means avoiding getting grabbed. Which there are a number of ways to do it.

The only advantages DDD has are CG and a mad edgeguarding game against Snake. Avoid a CG and you avoid getting edgeguarded so badly. After that the rest of that the match-up is entirely bareable. That is why I argue that DDD does not have the explicit 70-30 or 65-35 advantage over Snake.

 

[Berserker.]

Yeah I feel like DDD seems harder than Olimar now since your telling me this. At least Olimar can't chaingrab.

 

[Attila_]

How would you escape it?

i managed once or twice by dropping real low and getting behind him (under the stage mind you). one of those times i teched the stage and got back, the other, i was stage spiked by a flurry of bair. you could in theory pull out a grenade and throw it, but youd have to be sure he's gonna d3cide, and youll probably die anyway from the lag of it all. but yeah, he did it on me 6 or 7 other times without any issues.

The problem with the recovery is in how he recovers. First off, his UpB is extremely punishable. It has only 3 outcomes. Cancel and go for the ledge or cancel and go for the stage. Or just land back on the stage with its hitbox. This makes it extremely easy to punish when the person only has to look at a few options. Land on the stage and you have to deal with a ton of lag which will more than likely will be punished and thus DDD has to attempt to recover AGAIN. The cycle begins again.

The next problem lies in his aerial movement. His aerial movement is one of the worst in Brawl if I recall. This means that DDD has to go for the ledge, or near the stage edge everytime. It doesn't matter if DDD grabs the ledge or not, what options does he have from the ledge that won't get punished the moment he tries to get back on stage? The options he has are to jump, rolls, get-up attack, get-up or simply stall there on the ledge. DDD is at the disadvantage when he is on the ledge.

grabbing the ledge is safe most of the time for d3 because of the threat of a d3cide (or sucking you and spitting you out under the stage). having a nade out to stop it severly limits your ability to edgeguard him. if youre close, and we doesnt want to d3cide (down a stock or something), ledgehop uair is a massively disjointed gtfo attack. oh, and you wont be punishing that baby very easily. if you get baited into a counter, he rolls behind or jumps through. yes, his recovery isnt that great, but youre not gonna kill him or do massive damage with an edgeguard. but with one grab (which is almost 1.5x snake's grab range, less startup and less lag) he could and should very well do both.

So the whole idea is that DDD is extremely easy to juggle and that means free damage a lot of damage. This helps counteract a lot of the damage the he might incur from a CG. And inhaling is punishable if tried at the ledge for a cide. Just throw a grenade in his mouth.

so youre going to zero-death with a juggle? you must be pretty amazing... hang on wait, why isnt he using dair? from what i remember, it goes through any upwards aerial in the game... oh but wait, what's he doing above you anyway? d3 doesnt recover high, he recovers from the edge, gets you away with ledge hop aerials, then rolls, stands, attacks, ledgehops on the stage. at least that what he should be doing...

oh, and a grenade in the mouth? that thing that takes 24 frames before you can use and has a really slow throwing action? normally theyre amazing. but when a d3 decides to d3cide you, you really dont have 30 frames to play with. and if you did, he would simply not d3, but grab the ledge and recover as per usual.

And yeah, a CG can mean 0%-death from DDD is possible, but that just means avoiding getting grabbed. Which there are a number of ways to do it.

hang on, so wait, you admit he can zero to death you with a 5 (6?) frame move that pretty much outranges and outprioritizes everything you have? lol.

that doesnt make sense. anything you do can be punished with a grab. anything. you have to flee and camp constantly, otherwise you get grabbed and owned. but its an even mu? are you saying the d3 and you have to try equally hard to win? are you saying the d3 and you stang equal chances of winning? when he grabs you once and you might die or at least take heaps of damage? lol.

The only advantages DDD has are CG and a mad edgeguarding game against Snake. Avoid a CG and you avoid getting edgeguarded so badly. After that the rest of that the match-up is entirely bareable. That is why I argue that DDD does not have the explicit 70-30 or 65-35 advantage over Snake.

so the only advantage d3 has over snake is his grab that most of the time cant be punished with jab out of a spotdodge and has ftilt range, and can kill you instantly? lol. thats some advantage. you have to run away to avoid the grab. anything you do, no matter the spacing, can be shield grabbed. run grenade, run grenade. sounds even, right?

Yeah I feel like DDD seems harder than Olimar now since your telling me this. At least Olimar can't chaingrab.

i havent played a good olimar so i really cant comment; ill find a japanese one so i can ***** about the gayness of bad mus a little more. i can imagine oli being worse though, cause we really shouldnt be able to camp him...

/end rant

 

[-Ran]

This match is only even if Snake doesn't approach. This means that Snake needs the lead, a significant one. At 0%, this match is heavily in D3's favor. If Snake manages to bait a throw and punishes it enough to put a 'rush' into the D3 player, the dynamics of the match up change. [This is assuming a stage with no platforms.] Unfortunately, if Snake loses the lead, or gets a stock behind all the D3 player needs to do is hold block anytime Snake approaches. So yea, if the Snake has a lead it'll feel like an even match up, but if he's behind [against a good player] then it'll have the feeling of a hard counter.

 

[Berserker.]

Match up of DDD and Snake seems fun. DDD's recovery is mad..... Probably none of Snake's moves can out prioritize it so I don't know if this would work but how about putting a mine on the edge (not down smash) then when DDD tries to recover, wait for the timing then boom and does DDD's recovery have super-armor because if it does, this obviously wouldn't work but I doubt this would even work even though if DDD didn't have super armor in his recovery anyway.

 

[-Ran]

Snake can Nair D3's Recovery, or grab him out of it, but the thing is what have you done to knock D3 up in the air and off the stage? Nothing.

No offense Berserker, but after reading a few of your posts I believe that you haven't played a serious competitive player in this match up.

 

[napZzz]

Snake can Nair D3's Recovery, or grab him out of it, but the thing is what have you done to knock D3 up in the air and off the stage? Nothing.

No offense Berserker, but after reading a few of your posts I believe that you haven't played a serious competitive player in this match up.

oh uMaddd

mwhahahaa

 

[Berserker.]

Nope, not yet seriously and yeah to rephrase it, I've never tried it :/ You'll obviously find out because of the one post I just posted in the social thread and it says "I never participated in a tournament due to lack of transportation too" Duh..

By the way, I should use that as a sig :D and I'm trying to find players who really know how to really brawl but I can't

 

[Turazrok]

Yeah I feel like DDD seems harder than Olimar now since your telling me this. At least Olimar can't chaingrab.

Olimar can outcamp you maybe(?) if he knows how. D3 Cp would be norfair. Olimar is just a beast in general. Pivot grab dthrow fair regrab d throw usmash and follow up that's a pretty decent lead.

 

[6Mizu]

Yea...OLIVEmar is annoying.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

My playing partner mains Dedede, he is getting better and better with the matchup. I don't by anyway see an even matchup. A grab is deadly, and if he hits you out of your 2nd jump your gonna take a **** load of damage trying to recover.

 

[Vorguen]

Wasn't there a thread with a lot of info on Snake's jab? I was looking for it and can't find it.. It had info like who can powershield it and who can't.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

fourm search 'Ken Neth' as a user name

search for "olimar" "jab" as key words, in the snake fourms, with showing only threads. You should get something that says Move Discussion #6 Jab. Around the 4th page I believe is the post.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159
^This answers your question.

Shmot I'm done dicussing with you. I've pointed out the major points I wanted to get into. If we keep this up we will end up going into pointless debate that ranges into how to counteract every little tiny detail of the match-up. And from a realistic perspective, it would be impossible to predict how the match-up would go from there. For example, we branched off from the principals of juggling to a small sector of the egdeguarding process and how that situation is countered. It would just get worse from there.

 

[Limeee]

what are some good grenade patterns? i've been told that light toss to mortar is good, and i've seen how ally uses grenades to do a safe f-smash but what other patterns are there? my spam tends to be too random and i'm just throwing **** everywhere when people just walk straight through it.

specific patterns against marth and pikachu would be nice

 

[Berserker.]

Since Pikachu is a small character, strong throwing the grenade and try making a pattern out of it. You can make anything out of grenades. Like this pattern but I''m sure this is easily dodged but who cares:

Strong throw-->Snakedash-->Grab-->B-throw to grenade

It might not work sometimes and this can be probably dodged anyway :| just be creative with grenades

 

[.decoy]

Like this pattern but I''m sure this is easily dodged but who cares:
It might not work sometimes and this can be probably dodged anyway :| just be creative with grenades

No offense Berserker, but after reading a few of your posts I believe that you haven't played a serious competitive player in this match up.

yeeeah. qft.

if it doesn't work don't do it..