The Silly Kyle Video Archive and Critique Thread

[deepseadiva]

We're doomed when people start abusing the lag from shielded jabs.

The first jab is -9.

The second is -12.

:/

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

We're doomed when people start abusing the lag from shielded jabs.

The first jab is -9.

The second is -12.

:/

Why do you think I complained about Jabbing shields for so long

Edit: Still, if you think about it, shield drop takes 7 frames so they've got...what, about 2 frames from the 1st jab and 5 frames from the 2nd? I think that's right anyway. It's long range grabs (or grabs in general if you're close) that you need to worry about...or OoS Up + B's D:

Also @ Kyle - what the heck was Snake doing at 2:43?

It looks like he's covering his ears or something, I've never seen him do that before

Maybe he realised that Katamari (is that what it is?) was playing on the stage

 

[Battletanx_Commander]

Also @ Kyle - what the heck was Snake doing at 2:43?

It looks like he's covering his ears or something, I've never seen him do that before

Maybe he realised that Katamari (is that what it is?) was playing on the stage

Lol, he always covers his ears when idle and a nade goes off near him. xD

 

[Meru.]

Why do you think I complained about Jabbing shields for so long

Edit: Still, if you think about it, shield drop takes 7 frames so they've got...what, about 2 frames from the 1st jab and 5 frames from the 2nd? I think that's right anyway. It's long range grabs (or grabs in general if you're close) that you need to worry about...or OoS Up + B's D:

Nope. Meno posted the shield drop advantage, which means he has already taken the shield drop into account. It's actually -16 and -19. Dx

HOWEVER jab is a move you cant only judge by frame data.

First of all, jab is long-ranged.

Second, jab is really, really fast. Human error is simply involved in this, because it's quite hard to react to jab. Jab > grab isn't even slow on shield for the human eye.

Third, for average Brawl frame data, this is pretty average, nothing bad at all.

Last, jab is just another mix-up to the amazingness that are Peach's aerials. Remember, Fair's advantage is 0, which means you can do... a lot from your neutral position. Grab/ Nair/ Dtilt come to mind or, possible a bit more risky, Ftilt/Dsmash/Fsmash, or why not just loosen the pressure for once and roll/dash away?

 

[deepseadiva]

Nope. Meno posted the shield drop advantage, which means he has already taken the shield drop into account. It's actually -16 and -19. Dx

Correct, though where are you getting the -16 and -19 from???

 

[Meru.]

Jab 1:
Shield Advantage: -16
Shield drop advantage: -9

Jab 2:
Shield advantage: -19
Shield drop advantage: -12

Or just -9 - 7 = -16 and -12 - 7 = -19.

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh, you're just talking about the disadvantage against OOS attacks.

kk

 

[Meru.]

Well, what are you talking about then? o_o

 

[deepseadiva]

I thought you were adding back those 7 frames for normal shield-drop retaliations.

-16 after shield drop would suuuuuuccckkkkkk.

 

[gantrain05]

bah, who has time to memorize frames, jab is still too good.

 

[Eddie G]

bah, who has time to memorize frames, jab is still too good.

It's not a matter of time, just a matter of memory.

It literally took me two minutes to memorize some of Pikachu's more important buffered grab percentages: Falco is 19%-100% with a fresh d-throw, Snake is 27%-80%, and MK is 0%-52%. Simple.

Frame knowledge does wonders for a player's decision making in a match.

It's like the old saying: Those who don't read are eventually at the mercy of those who do.

 

[gantrain05]

i mean, u don't need to memorize the frame numbers XD, after much experience you know what works and what doesn't anyway. i don't need to know what frame Nair starts with if i know what its gonna get me out of.

 

[Metatitan]

Beefums I'm pretty sure pikachu's cg doesn't start until 16% on mk, or around there.

 

[Eddie G]

Beefums I'm pretty sure pikachu's cg doesn't start until 16% on mk, or around there.

Whoops, hmm...I'll take another look at that then. I've been having to learn a lot more than smash stuff recently. xD

 

[deepseadiva]

i mean, u don't need to memorize the frame numbers XD, after much experience you know what works and what doesn't anyway. i don't need to know what frame Nair starts with if i know what its gonna get me out of.

You don't necessarily memorize them, but looking through the numbers can find you stuff you haven't considered before.

See: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286192

 

[Meru.]

i mean, u don't need to memorize the frame numbers XD, after much experience you know what works and what doesn't anyway. i don't need to know what frame Nair starts with if i know what its gonna get me out of.

I also dont know most things precisely, it's more like that I know what's safe or fast or good or special etc. I dont know most exact numbers either ;p.

Some things are just really helpful to know

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Here are a few matches of me vs Hrnut trying to fully learn the snake mu. I feel that im getting closer and closer to figuring thus mu out completely. Around the time of this I was having a few problems with my hands tech wise. Its like I went faster that I was suppose to or I push the b button trying to use my thumb going to the c stick, especially when it comes to my aerials. But as of late I been continuing to practice and I just about got things about right. I feel that even though I was messing up so much that I was close to winning still means im on the right track.

I strongly feel that Snake's nade camping isn't good against Peach at all. however his dash attack and dacus seems to be quite a problem which I feel can be solved with bone walking. SOmething i dont seem to do very well. In saying so I feel that in the snake mu B-sticking is Magic. Also staying in the middle of the stage is so much better. Just like how Snake has better control in the center it works the same for Peach. We get too pressured if its anywhere around the ledge. I want to use ground float dair in this mu alot more as well but i'm sure if I start he will nade before stop dodging. I guess I need to do like a short hop stationary float dair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69KVFE3dImI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZP0IZ9u42w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcUbAS96eMA&feature=related

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

3rd vid at 2:47 - wow at that Fair disjoint

I thought some bits were a little sloppy - Your spacing was a bit iffy and I felt that you were a bit predictable in what you were going to do next. I'm surprised you didn't get punished more for the amount of Forward Glide Tossing you did
Some weird decisions like the constant F Smashing and the horribly close Turnip pulls next to Snake. Maybe its just me but I didn't feel like you were thinking enough about what your opponent was going to do next - you seemed to be determined on carrying out whatever you'd planned to do next regardless of whether it worked or not. Because of this, I felt you didn't cover your situations very well - you didn't seem to have a plan for if Snake did action Y instead of X

I really hope you get Bone Walking cracked because I think it'd be invaluable to you due to the way you play the Snake match up

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

This wasnt tournament it was just me learning more things is all. There are a lot of thngs I wouldn't have done in these matches. And about the Forward Glide tossing part that one im not sure about. I don't feel like I cant really et punished with thiat when his nades are around and if I buffer shield at a certain range. As we all know Peach's jab does wonders against Snake, Also the turnip pulling in front of him part was most of the time me messing up all the bone walks I tried....... Normally when playing Snake I dont really want to have a plan. I kinda just want to go with whatever I feel like doing lol. I guess its my play style I suppose. I don't want a flowing Peach. I want an Omg what?! Peach LOL

 

[z00ted]

i like crepes

 

[Evil-Guy]

**Not all Peach but it doesn't matter to me, just posting for enjoyment and further inspection of how I play the Falco matchup or what have you. :3

A MM set from yesterday, didn't get as many recorded as I wanted to (especially me and Shugo doing work in doubles against AZ/Kel and winning) but it's better than nothing. xD

King Beef (Peach) vs Clowsui (Falco) 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOizK5vP-cI

King Beef (Meta Knight) vs Clowsui (Falco) 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLOEc3hLNgA

A couple other sets to come later.

How do I get the random stage switch?

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Thank you both but I didn't really want an critique lol. There was another reason why I posted it.... Nevermind i'll just stick with this.

 

[z00ted]

oh im sorry.. I'll delete the post then

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Kyon is amazing lol most snakes don't like to play him lol

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Can someone link me to that video of one of yous pulling out 3 bombs in a single match? I can't find it, I think it was Kyon or Dark peach

 

[Meru.]

Can someone link me to that video of one of yous pulling out 3 bombs in a single match? I can't find it, I think it was Kyon or Dark peach

There you go

 

[Eddie G]

Leon's play is incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjTTC3VWGqc

 

[gantrain05]

leon is preeeeetty good lol.

 

[Nicole]

Kyon, I think you've created a Peach slaying monster in HRnut. He plays that MU sooooooo well, I never see Snakes go into the air much against Peach, but I think it's very effective if they do.

I'm not sure if you want a critique or not, but I noticed 2 habits - don't dsmash so much against Snake. It's effective against some characters, but I don't think he's one of them. And secondly, don't always fair and then fsmash. I don't know that much about Snake though.

As for me...

Marth (fun aggro matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elTetRfUmIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7veah4hw44&feature=related

Snake (serious boring matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZwgOo0gye4
http://www.youtube.com/user/2link121#p/u/8/sJn7aQbZGi0
(there were 3 matches, i let him take me to halberd on the 2nd just cause i never let snakes go there and i wanted to see. it was a bad idea...)

Any help with Snake would be appreciated, I'm not very good against him, even though I like the MU.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

There you go

Thanks a lot =)


*POW* *POW* 21%

 

[Razmakazi]

@nicole

hmm, the last snake one (8 minute one) is loading way too slowly right now for me to look through.

these look pretty solid though.

more turnips.

less running into c4.

you already know where it is so you should never get hit by it. **** happens but you get what i mean though or at least i think you do.

ima watch the wolf and ness ones i saw on the channel for lulz.

 

[Eddie G]

@ Raz- Watch the last match of her vs Snake. She doesn't get hit by C4. xD

 

[Razmakazi]

ok i haven't watched it yet but does she get hit by a ******** hitbox?

there's absolutely no way she got hit by some gigantic iron giant sized hitbox!?! ;O

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Here Nicole this is a game against a Wario. I hope it helps in some way.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmxp8aENVlU

And A game against a Yoshi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID4SWoa1woQ

 

[Razmakazi]

your tech skill is improving by lots.

just a couple weeks ago u cudn't even z drop fair catch properly.

 

[Nicole]

@Raz
Thanks for the critique, I know I got c4'd a few times on Yoshi's. He kept putting it in a stupid place so I couldn't get to him without risking it. I usually dont get hit by it and always know where it is (I did know where it was), but I got a bit impatient several times that match and I tried to rush by it instead of baiting it so I could shield and get it outta there.

More turnips against Snake? I didn't think they were particularly great for that MU. I believe you, I know you know Snake really well, just explain it to me. (unless you're just telling me to camp more, which is probably true).

***

Thanks for the Wario vid Kyon!

I think that's one matchup that I'm just gonna have to play more and get more used to his weird movements. But I saw how you punished his landings and groundfloated bair to keep him from getting in on you. I kept expecting you to pull a bomb ^.^

Your Peach is really impressive!

 

[Razmakazi]

well yea camp more but actually my issue is probably with how ur using the turnips.

a lot of the time ur throwing them and not hitting a thing.

you shud probably hold them til you get the chance to accomplishing something though. what i mean is instead of hitting air just wait til he pulls a nade or you think he wants to then hit him or his shield with it w/ like normal toss, glide toss, jump toss. then it's easier to pressure him w/ your float or whatever.

just try hitting him w/ them more or at least getting into a slightly closer space and then backing out coz otherwise it doesn't rly bother snake. the point is just to make 'em feel like outright camping doesn't work and if he approaches more then just do what u were doing and he'd lose.

hmm and u shud prob get more stingy w/ damage and not let nades hit u (not the explosion but the nade tosses). that adds up, especially when ur just getting camped. sometimes they do as much as like 5 damage so it's rly dumb. if he's not doing damage then it also won't rly be worth his time to camp like that.

i guess that's a better elaboration.

 

[Nicole]

^ok thanks! that helps alot.

i'm really not that good with turnips (hence why i dont use them as much as most other peaches) so i'll work on getting better at using them at good times, for starters.

 

[White-Peach]

Nicole~

Not a critique, but a question :o

I noticed that snake did a lot of NAirs. It seemed (to me) like you were in a perfect position to dash USmash his exposed legs. Tell me if I'm crazy, but something like that is asking for an upsmash :3


I need to play more smash but I'm having a hard time because I'm soooo cuteeeee in this other game

 

[gantrain05]

i don't know about snake, but i know about joker nicole, and i know his comfort zone is when you aren't approaching him, and when you are in his face, he's very good in both those situations, just kinda staying in the middle makes him nervous, jump around alot because he likes to throw Nairs on airborne peaches so its not too tough to bait him into it, and staying right in the mid range lets u stay within distance to punish his Utilts and such with a glide toss combo.